Continnuous Light Source Option

Hello friends and fellow photographers

I hope this is the right section to post my question.

I was wondering whether cheap LED bulbs of 28W (cost around $4 in my country) can be a good cost-effective solution for small product photography, provided a large white diffuser is used in front of the light bulb? If possible, this should provide an excellent and easy WYSIWYG solution. I understand that one may need to fix the WB in PP if an LED bulb is used.

Hopefully experienced members can shed some light on this idea.

Thank you all.

I don't see any reason why these would not work. I have a table lamp with a daylight flourescent tube on the right hand side, and a flat LED panel on the left. I use a small hand held reflector to push light into darker areas of the subject where required. The camera needs to be on a tripod, with the shutter tripped via the self timer. I always use F/16 and manual focus. An example:

With the ability to manipulate color balance in post processing, it really isn't necessary to worry over much about this.

So-called "daylight" tinted bulbs go a long way in reducing worries post-processing woes..

They tend to be "spiky" in their illumination (their light is concentrated in one frequency), as opposed to broad spectrum (like the sun which provides a light across a wide range of frequencies). I state this as a repetition of what I have read (from Andrew Rodney - digital dog. The difference may or may not be signifigant depending on the particular LED you are using. the environment (reflections, etc,), the subject (its reaction with light, and your criteria (purist or not).

Short version: try and see.

I neither know your products nor your local economy and conditions.

From my personal experience "a large white diffuser" in front of a single (or every) light is no cure all. Some products benefit from moving lights around, harsh light, to emphasize their surface structure and so on.

Setting up tripods takes time (i.e. costs wage and rent). Depending on your workspace's construction there might be some camera shake left, due to mirror slap, vibrating machinery, introduced via floor boards a photographer is standing on (yes, worst case, painted as black as possible).

I warmly recommend getting hold of a used copy of Light Science and Magic (book), to learn about studio lighting.

Easiest work around is still "yard work" in a shadow area or on an overcast day.

I am not familiar with 28W LED bulbs.

try and see.

I don't believe in WYSIWYG, when it comes to lighting; the brain does a way too great job smoothening contrasts. Trial and error, with the camera tethered to a computer gets you further.

When you need a reflection somewhere, it can help to turn everything else off and search for that angle with a hand held Maglite.

You can expect to lose up to 2 stops through a diffuser that truly gives a soft, even light, and LEDs are about 5 times more efficient than filament bulbs. So your 28 watt LED is only equivalent (roughly) to a 150 watt incandescent bulb. I.e. not very bright at all once it's been diffused. There's also the vaguary of colour temperature and CRI with cheap domestic LEDs.

I suppose if you use an array of 4 or more 28 watt LEDs per luminaire, you can get roughly the equivalent light to a 500 watt photoflood, which is about the minimum useful amount of light you want to aim for in any studio lamp. But there's still the issue of an unknown CRI rating, which could give you a headache in post if the product's colour has to be reproduced accurately.

Personally, I'd stick with strobes or speedlights and commercial softboxes, brollies, light-tents or product-tables. It'll save much experimentation and DIY construction, and after you've 'played' with the flashes for a short while you'll get to know exactly what effect a particular modifier will give. You'll probably easily learn what aperture/power setting you need for a standard setup as well.

Thank you all.

I am trying to set up a small home studio to taste the market which is not as mature as the first world countries. Moreover, the costs are very high when it comes to photography equipment and payments may not be forthcoming from the very beginning.

Renting this equipment or a studio is not much of an option too, mainly when I am in need to create a portfolio first.

I understand that the path is steep but I do hope to scale that with the help of the fellow photographers like you.

For me, the two main issues that I need to sort out to start with my home studio are- 1. Basic lighting equipment (including a small diffuser/softbox) and 2. A portable(and foldable) work bench/table.

Any suggestions/ advice in this context would be highly appreciated.

Thank you all again.

I can appreciate your situation--when I got started 40 years ago here in the US I likewise didn't have a lot of money for equipment. Given that many people who need this kind of photography also don't have a lot of money to pay for it it will be important for you to be expert in lighting since that is where non professionals will lack relevant skills. I would strongly recommend that you get a copy of Light, Science and Magic which is the book that I use with my students in the studio lighting class that I teach. One of the things I like about this book is that it doesn't presume that you have infinite cash to buy equipment.

Inexpensive LED lights are likely to have a discontinuous spectrum, as noted in earlier comments. I don't know about costs in your country, but starting with inexpensive flash equipment would be a better way to go for accurate color. It will also be critical to have a camera with full manual control of exposure and focus. An older DSLR with a kit lens would be adequate to get started, with better macro lenses added later. A solid tripod, which could be bought used for less money, will also be very helpful. Good luck!

I can appreciate your situation--when I got started 40 years ago here in the US I likewise didn't have a lot of money for equipment. Given that many people who need this kind of photography also don't have a lot of money to pay for it it will be important for you to be expert in lighting since that is where non professionals will lack relevant skills. I would strongly recommend that you get a copy of Light, Science and Magic which is the book that I use with my students in the studio lighting class that I teach. One of the things I like about this book is that it doesn't presume that you have infinite cash to buy equipment.

 

Inexpensive LED lights are likely to have a discontinuous spectrum, as noted in earlier comments. I don't know about costs in your country, but starting with inexpensive flash equipment would be a better way to go for accurate color. It will also be critical to have a camera with full manual control of exposure and focus. An older DSLR with a kit lens would be adequate to get started, with better macro lenses added later. A solid tripod, which could be bought used for less money, will also be very helpful. Good luck!

Thank you for your kind words and understanding.

The problem that many like myself face is, that we can not spend a lot of money at one go and we need to build on something small. As you have rightly pointed out, there smaller client base which I would like to tap. Though, I can not compromise on the quality of the work as I also need to improve my portfolio so that I may approach bigger clients.

I do have a Zomei 888C tripod and a macro lens (90mm), so I am somewhat covered on that front. I have two small flashes, SB600 and a Simpex flash (full manual without any other way to control the output but to increase the distance from the subject- inverse square law). Though I have to have a trigger and proper diffuser to go with these flashes.

Do you think that these flashes are going to be enough as a start and could you please suggest suitable diffusers (I can take the DYI route if it is not that difficult to pursue)?

Thank you again.

White shower curtain or white "dust cover for furniture" foil for flash.

White bed sheets, pillow cases etc for hot lights

China's cheapest offer "collapsible *number* in one reflector" on your online marketplace of choice, is also recommended.

I 'd also hunt for white umbrellas. Maybe those are cheaper when sold to pedestrians against weather?

Grip gear: Broom bungeed to back of chair = light stand.

Clamp to attach parasol on balcony railing

Parasol attachments for walker carts

Expandablenpoles meant to assist with bolting wood to your ceiling

Get rechargable batteries for your flashes. I am biased towards Eneloops.

I know virtually nothing about 'artificial lighting' (except for a bit of theory) and I would give a +1 for getting a good book on lighting techniques. The only thing I know is that your lighting equipment needs to be flexible. So a softbox may provide general lighting but for products (and portraits), you also need a way of providing varying degrees of backlighting, highlights, left and right, bottom, and top, etc. I'm not talking about the lighting technology (LED bulbs of 28W or something else) but about the flexibility of your equipment and the degree of control you have over it. So if you have a range of lamps that you can place in different locations and can control the light intensity of each lamp, that might be a good way to start.

As far as I know, a softbox on its own can produce a fairly 'flat' photo. Product photography is usually about 'profiling' the product against some background suggesting depth (3-D), highlights, shadows, etc. The aim is to make the product look as realistic and attractive as possible. Subtle lighting plays a large role in this.

FWIW, I seem to remember some Youtube Videos on DIY lighting solutions. Worth checking out!

Thank you all for your kind words and assistance. I have bought a few sheets of white foam boards which I am planning to use as reflectors.

@mikemorrell I have searched on YT for DYI light solution for photography, but haven't come across anything worth it. If you can point me to any link, that would be really helpful.

Thanks again.

For softboxes I strongly recommend the instantly erectable/collapsible umbrella style ones. So much cheaper and easier to use than rectangular boxes, and (for non shiny objects) giving much the same effect.

Here's one with a speedlight inside it. And you can see it's easily as bright as a sunlit window - with flash set on 1/16th power for this shot IIRC.

WRT LED lighting's colour rendering, it's not 'spikey', but has an uneven continuous spectrum that, in general, is heavy in the blue-violet and deficient in the cyan regions. Even so, it gives reasonable colour rendering, with CRI's of 90 and higher available in specialist lamps. Not so much with cheap domestic bulbs.

Here's a test I did some time ago comparing sunlight to a small LED torch (flashlight).

Not too bad IMO, although I did have to correct the LED's high colour temperature in the camera settings.

However, LED lighting still doesn't have the power available to cheaply compete with flash.

Things like this Aputure light storm link are available, but ridiculously overpriced for the equivalent of about 1000 Watts of tungsten lighting.

It appears to be a 200 watt COB LED chip (costing maybe £10 - $13) mounted on a fan-cooled heatsink. Priced at over $1000, somebody is just laughing all the way to the bank!

LEDs currently also tend to fade in brightness over time.

Thank you for your kind words and understanding.

 

The problem that many like myself face is, that we can not spend a lot of money at one go and we need to build on something small. As you have rightly pointed out, there smaller client base which I would like to tap. Though, I can not compromise on the quality of the work as I also need to improve my portfolio so that I may approach bigger clients.

 

I do have a Zomei 888C tripod and a macro lens (90mm), so I am somewhat covered on that front. I have two small flashes, SB600 and a Simpex flash (full manual without any other way to control the output but to increase the distance from the subject- inverse square law). Though I have to have a trigger and proper diffuser to go with these flashes.

 

Do you think that these flashes are going to be enough as a start and could you please suggest suitable diffusers (I can take the DYI route if it is not that difficult to pursue)?

 

Thank you again.

You have gotten a lot of good suggestions since my post. I would add that there is neutral density gel available in sheets for lights that I use to control flash units when I have dialed down the flash to its minimum output and it is still too bright. In the US this isn't expensive like good ND filters for camera lenses tend to be, so that would be another way to control output when you want hard lighting to bring out texture or create shadows to emphasize depth in an image. Multiple layers of cloth should accomplish the same thing if you don't need hard light and the gel isn't available inexpensively where you live. I have used Vivitar 285 HV flashes for many years as small accent lights on large sets and the ND gel allows predictable control of light output.

While it is certainly possible to correct color in Photoshop and other software, if you intend to do this professionally it make sense to get it as close to correct as possible in the camera in the first place. Otherwise you will have to send more time in post processing and many clients tend to assume that the computer is magically doing all of the work, not you, and they often don't expect to pay much for this. It will also make your delivery of finished images slower and fast turnaround is a distinct asset to our business if you can provide it.

The 1st half discusses lighting and lighting techniques for products. The 2nd half shows how to make cheap DIY lighting solutions and compares these with professional equivalents.

Build your own softbox (cardboard, glue, aluminum foil, tracing/oven paper)

Article and Video 3: (12 mins) on DIY product lighting

Hope these help!

Other tips I've come across are using plastic pipes (and 45/90 degree 2- and 3-way joints to construct stands for lights, backgrounds, etc. Of course these need to be stable and safe!

Thank you all for your kind words and assistance. I have bought a few sheets of white foam boards which I am planning to use as reflectors.

 

@mikemorrell I have searched on YT for DYI light solution for photography, but haven't come across anything worth it. If you can point me to any link, that would be really helpful.

 

Thanks again.

Thank you [uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] , @AJG and @mikemorrell for your replies.

@mikemorrell If you have shared any links, I am unable to view those. I do not know why. Could you please check again?

Mike's links work for me.

It's a pity that many of the late, great Steve Sint's "Setshop Tutorials" seem to have been taken down, but a few of them remain here.

Former PN member Steve was a great believer in DIY lighting setups, and produced some great shots using wooden frames and tracing-paper, etc. I certainly learned a lot from his generous sharing of knowledge and videos on these fora - he's sadly missed.

OTOH, DIY frames and diffusers tend not to be very robust, nor compact to store. Therefore they're not ideal for a professional studio, where you might need a big diffuser for one job, and 20 minutes later a couple of focused spots. Or some combination of hard and soft lights. And with adequately performing, cheap and foldable modifiers coming out of China, it seems a false economy to be constantly trying to knock up a DIY substitute. For example: My softbox-brollies cost me around £15 (~$18 US) each, and have lasted me at least 10 years. 3 or 4 of them fold down to easily fit in a sports bag, along with portable stands, adapters and speedlights to fill them.

Whatever. It's the ability to use whatever gear you have to produce pleasing and professional results that counts. So practise, practise, practise your lighting skills. Then it won't really matter if you're using a YongNuo speedlight and tracing paper or a Profoto head and expensive softbox.

I don't know why either. Especially since [uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] confirms that the links work. It may be due to Internet/youTube restrictions in your country or due to your personal internet settings.

A 'workaround' might be if send you a copy of the videos via e-mail. If you want this, please send me a Private Message (PM) with your e-mail address and I'll see what I can do.

Mike

Thank you [uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] , @AJG and @mikemorrell for your replies.

 

@mikemorrell If you have shared any links, I am unable to view those. I do not know why. Could you please check again?

Yay!

A Google search for "Set shop tutorials" revealed that Steve Sint's videos all appear to be available on YouTube.

Not sure if this link to the search result will work, but let's give it a go.

[uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] @mikemorrell Thank you so much for your assistance and time.

In the meantime, I have come to know about a small light setup for about US $40 available in my local market. It includes two C-stands, two umbrellas/small softboxes and two halogens. Would you advise for it? I have not seen it myself yet, I expect to get more details in a day or two. The light sources have specific Kelvin temperatures though I can not guarantee the constancy.

There is one more light setup I have come across an inexpensive continuous light setup, the details are as follows:

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B09X39CFWV?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_2EM6HC2RR3TA0FBSVP73

What is your opinion about this? The manufacturer is claiming that the lights have CRI >=95%. I am not sure how can use a diffuser/light modifier with these flat panel lights!

Regarding the LED bulbs that I first thought about, I have checked the PHILIPS website for details. PHILIPS is claiming that their 20W bulbs have CRI>=90%, though I could not find this specific bit of information while browsing the specification detail about the LED bulbs.

Thank you again.

[uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] @mikemorrell Thank you so much for your assistance and time.

 

In the meantime, I have come to know about a small light setup for about US $40 available in my local market. It includes two C-stands, two umbrellas/small softboxes and two halogens. Would you advise for it? I have not seen it myself yet, I expect to get more details in a day or two. The light sources have specific Kelvin temperatures though I can not guarantee the constancy.

 

There is one more light setup I have come across an inexpensive continuous light setup, the details are as follows:

 

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B09X39CFWV?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_2EM6HC2RR3TA0FBSVP73

 

What is your opinion about this? The manufacturer is claiming that the lights have CRI >=95%. I am not sure how can use a diffuser/light modifier with these flat panel lights!

 

Regarding the LED bulbs that I first thought about, I have checked the PHILIPS website for details. PHILIPS is claiming that their 20W bulbs have CRI>=90%, though I could not find this specific bit of information while browsing the specification detail about the LED bulbs.

 

Thank you again.

I used quartz halogen lights (Lowel Tota Lights and Omni Light) before I bought my studio strobes. They put out a lot of heat as well as light and should only be used with umbrellas and softboxes that are made to withstand that much heat for long periods. I burned a hole in one sheet of polarizing gel with a halogen light , so this is a real possibility to be aware of. Also, while good quartz halogen bulbs are quite good for accurate color, this only applies if voltage is constant and you don't use long extension cords. If voltage decreases the Kelvin temperature also decreases and color rendition gets warmer. Very long extension cords can also have the same effect. Good studio flash units are voltage regulated and don't have this problem.

IMO the quartz-halogens will be much more useful than those pathetic Yugam (or whatever) LED panels.

They would be just about OK for video lights - maybe - but without the power or flexibility for product shots. Can't be snooted down to a spot, nor diffused or reflected to be a larger source because they're basically too dim to start with.

P. S. and BTW, the advertising shots for that Yugam LED panel kit are completely bogus. The shot of the female model would have 3 rather hard shadows falling on the background if lit by the setup shown, and the CRI 'test' is obviously one single shot with the contrast turned down on half of it.

So if they visually lie to you, what faith does that give you in the product?

Plus the given 3600 lx @ 0.5m equates to a lumen output of about 900; roughly equal to one 100 watt tungsten domestic light bulb!

@AJG and [uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] thank you so much for your inputs, I sincerely appreciate your help.

There is another option that I found after visiting the photo fair again today. There is a light from Godox model SL60 (Godox SL-60 LED Video Light (Daylight-Balanced)) which does not cost that much. With a stand and a softbox, I can get the setup complete for around $150. What would be your opinion about this light coupled with reflectors that I already have for food photography?

I've found Godox stuff to be OK and a small, hard source like that COB LED will be much more versatile than a small video panel.

However a 60 watt COB chip still isn't that bright (just bought a 30 watt version to use in a 5x4 enlarger and it's not really bright enough).

I'm not sure why you're determined to use a feeble continuous source, when something like this can be bought at around the same price, complete with a modelling light that's almost as bright as the LEDs you're considering.