Compur numbered speed change-over?

My "new" Schneider Symmar arrived today. Although the serial of the

lens places the camera at 1968 according to the schneider website, the

Synchro Compur has the old 1/2/5/10/25/50/100/200/400 scale rather

than the modern 1/2/4/8/15/30/60/125/250/500 type scale.

 

When did this switch-over occur? I always thought 1950's, at least

with small and medium format lenses. Maybe I have a lens where

hopefully both of the element groups has been installed in an older

shutter?

Also, did the aperture ring switch over to the constant spacing type? This one is like my old Ikonta where the spacing gets tighter as you stop down.

Could very easily be a newer glass in an older shutter, Mike. Someone likely decided they wanted their Symmar worse than the old Tessar or whatever that was in that shutter, and saved a couple hundred bucks of 1970 money by buying the glass without the shutter and swapping the elements. Either that, or they found their (then) 25 year old Synchro Compur was still working fine when their $300 (1970 money) Seiko had quit...

Mike,

 

I have been quite involved in data collecting information on Linhof select Zeiss lenses for the past four years. From everything I can tell, the switchover from 1/400 to 1/500 on Compur 1 shutters was 1969. I have a very rare version of the 135mm Planar with the later large front objective and 1/400 shutter. Most later versions with 67mm screw-in filters instead of the prior 58mm screw-in filters have a 1/500 Compur I shutter. Only a few are known to exist so I started to research the subject more. 1969 is my best guess!

 

Regards,

 

J. P. Mose

From my "repair mnual", the page with CN-1307-000 (1-400) Size 1 is dated September 1962, while the 1210-051 Size 0 with 1-500, aperture clicks is dated November 1965. There is also a type CN-1210-000 size 0 with 1-500, no aperture clicks from November 1956.

 

So it seems to be at least partly size related, with the smaller shutters being updated first. After all, Compound shutters were made into the seventies in the larger sizes - 3, 4, and 5.

 

What size Synnar is it? What size shutter? The 150mm to 210mm is in a #1, the 240mm in a #2, and I don't know about the even bigger ones...

Hmmmm, I thought it was a #0 but my lensboard hasn't arrived yet, so I may well be wrong (and in the market for a #1 Cambo lensboard...)

 

Anyhow, this is what we are talking about. Its a 150/5.6 Symmar (convertible) with a 1-400 Synchro Compur.<div></div>

That looks bigger than the 1930s vintage #0 Compur I have with 13.5 cm f/4.5 Radionar (or the dead Compur, same size and vintage, with same spec Skopar); that f/5.6 150 mm should be about the same glass size as my Radionar and Skopar, and has a lot of spacer around the outside.

 

Measure the thread O.D. on the back side -- if it's 39 mm, you've got a #0. Most likely you have a #1 there.

OD of the threaded mount for the locking nut? The OD including the threads is 38.5 mm by calipers.

Looking at this, another question. Refer to the button between B and 1 in the photo above. It must be a preview lever to allow me to focus without setting to T. It is not coupled to the aperture.

 

There is a also a button between that lever and the cocking lever. It can be pushed forwards or backwards. What is this supposed to do?

The round button you can pull back is the self-timer. Pull it back, and you can cock the shutter a little bit more, that takes about ten seconds to run out. The odd angular thing is the press focus lever. Push it in to open the shutter blades, pull it out again to close. Jam a couple of matches in there to keep it closed after you have forgotten it a few times, or accidentally pushed it in when cocking the shutter.

 

Ther is one thing with #1 shutters which is unique in all post-war shutters: The threads for front and rear cell are different. If you have any doubt at all, that thing is certain. You don't even have to measure that the front cell is M40x0.75 and the rear M36x0.75!

Thanks Ole, the shutter is how you describe with the different-sized cell threads.

For the archives, I've found two links of interest, both on SK Grimes website:

 

<p><a href="http://www.skgrimes.com/compur/">Compur Sizes</a><br>

<a href="http://www.skgrimes.com/compur/synchro/index.htm">Synchro Compur #1 Operating Instructions</a>

Also for the record, SK Grimes is wrong about the threads on #2 Compur shutters. The ones listed there are not #2, but a "special".

 

There were 3 versions: 2-X Tube 5/I, Tube 5/II and Tube 6/II.

 

Tube 5/I and 5/II have the same threads: Lens cells 48.5mm x 40 tpi, mount thread 50mm x 29 1/13 tpi. The difference is in the length of the tube, and thus lens cell spacing.

 

Tube 6/II is larger: Lens cells 49.65mm x 40 tpi, mount 55.80mm x 29 1/13 tpi, and a tube length intermediate between the others.

 

The strange thread pitch are due to the threads being made with a specified angle, not thread gauge. 40 t.p.i is 64 degrees, 29 1/13 t.p.i is 50 degrees. Same stupid threads as on Compound #3 and #4 shutters.