Comprehensive Insurance for Classic Cameras?

Hi

 

Just wondering if anyone ever insures their cameras? I have a recently acquired Haselblad 500cm and 2 lenses for it. I plan to travel to Europe next week and it dawned on me that I should perhaps insure this gear against theft or damage.

 

Any suggestions?

Do you folks insure your cameras and lenses?

THANKS in advance!

 

Tom

I went as far as pondering such. Do a search for local providers and their small print. Try to understand it! - I was told to do the default case(s) approach. At the end of the understanding attempt stage you should have a mind map how your resulting problems will look like. And a price tag. BTW: Whatever looks "???" after small print reading has to be discussed in advance with your insurance provider until even you* understand it. (*=no offense meant! - I play dense and polite whenever I deal with them. You need a clear picture of every obstacle you'll face)

The usual deal with a not mandatory insurance is: Sign here, pay there, encounter real life problem, get told "you are ****ed!" because a) on page 3 of the small print that case was excluded. b) you are not able to provide in your insurance's opinion necessary papers.

 

Issues I would read up and discus in advance:

1. Theft "out of vehicles" - AFAIK they cover at very best cameras in hard cases on bikes. I only have soft bags to bungee on mine.
   
2. Theft out of tents. - Coverage seems rare but essential for me
   
3. Procedure to establish gear's value? - Huge can of worms! Most likely going to break your neck! - Related problems: I bought my film Leicas from a buddy. Its been a while and I am unlikely to find papers establishing their value. -WTF is "value", to make insurance worth our while? My buddy had a stingy mum and traveled across the country to get really great prices, that he passed on me, after dabbling with the gear for a roll or three. Insurances don't serve photographers; they serve accountants! - You want 2h clicking comfort; i.e.: To hit an Internet cafe, order stuff like you lost from KEH / B&H or similar and the insurance to pay replenishing your bag. What you'll get is just protection of the investment you actually made.
   
4. New for old clauses are only relevant, if you have the original receipt for that camera.
   
5. Underinsurance issues? - I happen to own gear I don't really care about anymore. Do I have to pay insurance for the 900€ a Coolpix did cost in 1999? for the 1K-something, sunk in a first generation 6MP DSLR? - Dedicated camera insurances can be for a list of gear that you choose riders on home owners policys might be different.
   
6. Procedure in a worst case? They usually want you to announce theft to police. - How to? - Do you speak Thai, Polish, French, Russian fluently enough to do so? - Is it up to you to hire an interpreter? Will insurance provide you translated templates you can handle? What kind of rush are they demanding? (FTR: I had unpleasant experience with a bike's theft insurance in Warsaw Poland. - I had a local friend doing the interpreting at the police there. My insurance wanted the Polish record I got translated by an official translator on my expense and settled for a German police report, obtained after getting home. Nonetheless their grace period of several weeks, to get my bike back, started only after they received that report and I faced mobility issues in between.)
   
7. What is not covered? - How big is that risk compared to the insured ones? - Classic cameras do need their occasional CLA, a sync contact fik here a replacement bellows there... I doubt somebody being willing to sell extended warranties for decades old stuff.
   

My personal conclusion was to not buy insurance and try "happy go lucky" instead. YMMV, mine would too, if I had the funds to prepare being a winning case with contracts as they are; i.e. buying a neat kit new or at least in a reproducable manner and living risky most of the year. If I add up what I have in total, it is cheaper to drop a lens & bite the bullet than to pay insurance for everything. 2 weeks of camping vacation per year in a group of friends don't justify 300€ of insurance fees, in my book. Numbers might look different, if you have less gear in total.

 

On a side note: Don't worry too much about Europe. If you are doing regular tourism, it should be pretty safe.

Everything I wrote is based on German insurances. Things may be different in your part of the world.

 

The general rule I was taught: "Insure only against whatever might break your neck." (Health, liability, vehicle liability) Insuring toys against yourself seems usually quite pricey and average misadventures might not (or barely) exceed the deductible.

Insurances ain't no charities and if you stick with sane gear, you don't need them.

Don't get me wrong; if you get a job requiring an over your head investment into Phase One &/ Hasselblad counterparts, it should pay you a living wage + gear insurance & leasing / interest.

But: What happens if you 'd lose your current film kit? - I'd shrug it off; it would not endanger next year's vacation pics and everything I am asked to do, as a job or for others, is digital anyhow... Even the cameras I am jobbing with aren't insured. If I drop one it will cost me less than 200€ to get a used replacement body and a lens might be less than 300€. And not needing to buy those leaves money to upgrade to something else someday. If you believe in a need to have backup insurance seems less valuable anyhow.

In the end it boils down to: Is my desire for another lens weak enough to permit paying insurance?

Thanks and yes, I "get" it. Sounds as though you are about as jaded as I am , RE: Insurance c companies. I'll see what my current renter's insurance will do for me in terms of covering specific items while abroad. Meanwhile the best advice is probably simply "watch your back" & "cover your @$$" while out & about. My (so far untested) theory is that if you do not present yourself as a "victim", you stand a better chance of not becoming one.

 

As for my motor vehicle insurance, maybe I better review the fine print on the comprehensive coverages for car and motorbike.

Definitely check the fine print on any policies that you have and definitely don't automatically renew policies every year without checking out other companies to see if you're paying too much for the coverage you have. After a review and some shopping last year, my wife and I got better coverage for both of our cars and her business for a little over half of what we had been paying previously.

When I looked into it, the deductible was higher than all my stuff was worth combined.

 

The best insurance in Life is personal responsibility.

If you have home owners / renters (possibly comprehensive on your car as well), and are an amateur, you probably have some degree of coverage. You will need to explore specifics of the issue with your insurance provider. When I was doing photography professionally I was able to get pretty decent coverage inexpensively from the same insurance company. That last info is dated by quite a few decades, but it would probably be worth a phone call to find out product availability & cost. I think of insurance as betting - you the insured are betting that something bad will happen - the insurer is betting it will not. As with any bet, you need to consider the odds.

There is the old story about insuring a coin collection, and finding that they will only pay $0.01 for your super rare penny.

 

(There is probably special insurance for it, but ordinary homeowners or renters insurance won't do it.)

 

I used to have insurance for computers I used at home for business purposes, but the price of computers goes down so fast, that by the time they were stolen (none of mine have been), they would be worth less than the insurance cost.

 

On the other hand, my son's Macbook, maybe five years old, was stolen. It was still valuable enough to make a claim on his renters insurance above the deductable.

Then the insurance company would not renew his policy. He now switched to a different insurer. (The original one still insures his car.)

 

Camera prices drop fast enough that I would careful question the cost vs. value for insurance. Lenses might not drop as fast.

Insure against ruin.

Work against loss.

Why? Hassel isn't a chinese vase dated back to 3th century.:p

im sure you can insure things as priceless art n collectables but it will cost you a fortune.

 

a leica m3 belonging to the queen of england auctioned off at about a million. but insure it as a photographer, it sold new for about $300 new in 1958. insurance will depreciate it over 60 years and give you $50 for it.

 

some insurance have a "replacement value" clause. if... thats IF, you can get a replacement value assesment in writing from the insurer before you sign on the dotted line, and like the cost of the policy, it may be worth insuring it.

 

otherwise, take the price of the policy and bank that amount. in the years you have the equipment before anything hasppens, you will have socked away enough money to buy another replacement.

 

btw if you are looking to insure as a business... its better to insure against someone getting hurt in your studio than worry about your depreciated equipment getting stolen.

 

get a safe!

I insured my Mamiya RB67 camera equipment 30 years ago when it was worth ten times what it's worth now. Today, insurance isn't worth it. Be careful with using renter's or home insurance. I had two loses in a year for a few hundred dollars only. I was then blackballed by the entire industry and couldn't get renter's insurance again for two or three years to cover my apartment.

Every claim you make goes into data bases shared by insurance providers to track risk.

You have an insurance rating similar to your credit rating and premiums and coverages are adjusted accordingly.

 

“You might assume your current insurer is the only one that knows the claims you’ve made, but that’s typically not the case. Insurers routinely track and share information about their policyholders through two databases: the Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange, or CLUE, and the less widely used Automated Property Loss Underwriting System, or A-PLUS.

 

Insurers that subscribe to the databases can learn about claims you’ve filed going back several years, including the dates and causes of damage, claim check amounts and more. In some cases, they can learn about issues you simply asked your insurer about, even if the problem never resulted in a claim.

 

Your past claims help insurers decide how much to charge for a policy. If a company determines your odds of filing future claims are too high, it might deny your application.”

 

Every claim you make, insurers are watching you

Edited November 13, 2018 by Moving On

Every claim you make goes into data bases shared by insurance providers to track risk.

You have an insurance rating similar to your credit rating and premiums and coverages are adjusted accordingly.

 

“You might assume your current insurer is the only one that knows the claims you’ve made, but that’s typically not the case. Insurers routinely track and share information about their policyholders through two databases: the Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange, or CLUE, and the less widely used Automated Property Loss Underwriting System, or A-PLUS.

 

Insurers that subscribe to the databases can learn about claims you’ve filed going back several years, including the dates and causes of damage, claim check amounts and more. In some cases, they can learn about issues you simply asked your insurer about, even if the problem never resulted in a claim.

 

Your past claims help insurers decide how much to charge for a policy. If a company determines your odds of filing future claims are too high, it might deny your application.”

 

Every claim you make, insurers are watching you

 

exactly!

 

insurance companies love premiums but hate paying out. its a legal scam.

I have insurance for my working cameras. I have not insured my 'collection' except that my general household policy has some coverage for the ones that are actually worth more than a pizza.

I suspect most are Worth more than a Pizza to you (unless very hungry). Cost & worth quite different things to me, you as well, or you wouldn't have collected them! As to insurance - for the big things, I guess - no cameras (except as previously suggested) in this current incarnation.

hahahahahahaha

 

someone gets it.

"insurance companies love premiums but hate paying out. its a legal scam" moving on" Claudius to his mates,.

 

Jeez, insurance companies, are really about gathering gold coins not about giving them away. Only the naïve and simple minded would think otherwise.

 

They, have section 87 in closeted, subsection 67, complimented by section 94 paragraph 32 subsection 7e paragraphed as subsection 67, subsection 321..

 

How simple is that understand. Obviously, the uneducated would not understand, so why would anyone feel they should have any benefits or claims from their insurance....they obviously need to educate themselves and understand how the market economy really works.

 

Holy Moses, I sound like one of those commies hiding under your bed, waiting to pounce on you ,and take all your gold coins away. Scared myself.

 

Forgot subsection 56e2....oops.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Allen Herbert

It's the reason I keep my collision deductible on my cars at $1000 rather than $500. It's cheaper to absorb $1000 than pay extra insurance premiums.

I suspect most are Worth more than a Pizza to you (unless very hungry). Cost & worth quite different things to me, you as well, or you wouldn't have collected them!

 

It is sad that I, as a certified political economist, used sloppy language.

It's the prices actually paid on eBay that are generally in the pizza range. But let's not go too far down this direction, or we shall have to consider such arcana as labor value, work value (near zero for some of them), and such like. :eek:

Interesting discussion. I've read every post and found no reports of thefts and the consequences. I may have missed them.

 

In 1986 my camera bag full of Nikons and lenses and exposed film disappeared while I was doing fieldwork in Haiti. I filed a claim on my homeowner's policy. After some discussions -- the insurance company initially wanted to pay depreciated purchase price, I held out for replacing used equipment with equivalent used equipment at current market price -- we settled for enough, as it turned out, to replace everything. I got market prices for used gear from the back pages of Modern Photography and Popular Photography. If I suffer a similar loss again, I'll get values for the common stuff from the great auction site, values from the rare stuff from specialists such as Westlicht.

 

The settlement shouldn't have made me quite whole, but when I went shopping for lenses Nikon AG has just dumped a warehouse full of lenses Germans weren't buying via grey market vendors in the US. New MicroNikkors (55/2.8, 105/2.8 and 200/4, all AIS) were selling for less than used ones. Rare opportunity, probably not repeatable.

I sometimes buy cameras and lenses from auctions of a nearby Goodwill.

I can pick them up to avoid shipping, though the mail cost isn't that high for the short distance.

 

With pizza prices going up, it isn't hard to get cameras for less.

 

I got an AI 80-200 zoom for $11, which seems to work fine.

Maybe a small pizza for less, but large will be more.

 

A popular Seattle restaurant charges $27.99 for a large with a few toppings.

Don't forget salad, drinks, and tip.

Many insurance companies are mutual insurance:

 

Mutual insurance - Wikipedia

 

such that profits go to the policy holders, not stock holders.

 

They still try not to pay claims unnecessarily, but the goal is satisfied customers,

instead of satisfied stock holders.

With pizza prices going up, it isn't hard to get cameras for less.

 

As one recent post indicated, sometimes a camera with lens, still working, can be had for around US$10

 

Some of my large collection of East German cameras are worth more than I paid for them, but not much.

 

No one should plan on retiring on the appreciation of their camera collection.

 

It will be a slower process, but in the long run this will even apply to Leicas.

“Those cameras” will make an insurance company more than their worth.