Color Issues

<p>Hello. I read a lot of post and articles about my issue, it' s well and widely discussed. But, please, keep in consideration my question, I cannot solve the problem, after I have tryed a lot of times. The same old question : my prints don' t match the images of monitor in photoshop. Also, my images, posted on web, don' t match the image of my monitor in photoshop space. My monitor is a Dell U2410, wide gamut, calibrated 100 lumen, 6500 k, gamma 2.2 ( I work in windows), calibrated with EyeOne display 2 unit. Calibrated profile always loaded automaticaly at each windows starting. This is my workflow : 1- shoot in raw. 2 convert from raw to tiff, to adobe rgb space. 3 open the tiff in photoshop. Photoshop color space = adobe rgb. 4 make all the edits in photoshop, then save the master in tiff 16 bit. 5a) duplicate the master, open a double window to compare the original and the copy, make the color proof : device to simulate : srgb color space. The proofed image doesn' t show a big difference from the master, so I edit just little adjustments to the copy. 6a) I convert to srgb color space. Reduce size. reduce to 8 bit. Save as jpeg. 7a) I post the jpeg image on web. When I look at the image on the web site or in windows viewer, it looks very reddish and oversaturated, inacceptable. It looks this bad also on other computers, with small gamut monitors too, not only on mine. The converted to srgb image seems to look ok only on my computer, ONLY in photoshop adobe rgb space...On my computer, it looks bad in all the other application than photoshop adobe rgb space...About print workflow, the same story. 5b) duplicate the master, open a double window to compare the original and the copy, make the color proof : device to simulate : kodak endura glossy (the profile of the lab contone printer) . The proofed image doesn' t show a big difference from the master, so I edit just little adjustments to the copy. 6b) I convert to the printer profile. Reduce to 8 bit. Save as tiff. 7b) the lab prints look very reddish and oversaturated. I don' t know where is the mistake, theoricaly the workflow seems to be correct. At my monitor, when I open images of other people from web sites, they all look ok, only my images look reddish. So, I suppose it' s not an issue of monitor calibration. It could be an issue of color managing, errors in profiles and color spaces conversions. But, as I said, theoricaly my workflow seems to be correct. The only way to make my converted to srgb images look acceptable is , as I read in a famous italian web editor pubblication : the color proofing in 2 steps. First, make the proofing from the original master to the final device to simulate. Then, from this first simulation result, make the second proof to simulate the calibrated monitor profile. Now, the image looks very reddish, so I can correct it by curves adjustments. Then, I convert the corrected copy to srgb color space. I load the image on web sites, and now it appears acceptable, viewed at my monitor and viewed at other computers too. The same process makes my lab printed images look more acceptable. But I know many people say that is not concectually correct to make proof simulating the monitor profile. At this point, I' m very confused. Please, let me know your suggestions, critiques, methods to solve this problem. I' m in big trouble. Thank you very much. Marco</p>

you did not say what you were trying to produce by going though all the pain of your workflow . . . that

said, i use LR, shoot raw, export the format i need the images in for delivery - i.e., editorial, art, prints, and

so on. They are "perfect" every time. . . I ONLY use LR and i calibrate with Eyeone . . . gretaqgmacbeth .

. . . . .

<p>When you convert to sRGB are you selecting convert to profile or assign profile?</p>

<p>Have you ever viewed your iOne created profile in Windows Color Control Panel to see if it has any obvious anomalies? Have you tried calibrating your display with a different calibration system, like Spyder3 Elite, just for the sake of comparison?</p>

<p>Aferthought:</p>

<p>In 5a), have you ever simply uploaded images to the web adjusted visually in Photoshop, and not softproofed against the sRGB color space? I never perform this step. I trust that my calibrated monitor profile is giving me an accurate view of the image in Photoshop. and this is what other people should see in a color managed, icc aware browser on a calibrated system.</p>

<p>This workflow is not reasonable- you should not have to do all these steps just to get the color to match.</p>

<p>Lets start with the web. Please post an image that looks fine to you but overly red on the web. Please post your AdobeRGB version (downsized for web) and also your final SRGB version.</p>

<p>It's not surprising if this image looks oversaturated on your monitor using a non-ICC aware application.</p>

<p>One other question- you're not using the "absolute" rendering intent when going from AdobeRGB to sRGB are you?</p>

<p>For Martin : I convert from Adobe rgb to Srgb selecting "convert", not assign. For Chas : in 5a)yes, I have, and they look terribly reddish. For Roger : I convert from Adobe rgb to srgb using relative colorimetric.<br>

These 3 are converted from adobe rgb to srgb, relative colorimetric, without soft proofing<br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4248060988/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4248060988/</a><br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4249188285/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4249188285/</a><br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4248069386/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4248069386/</a></p>

<p>They look terribly reddish even at the computer where I' m now, at my office at work. Monitor ctr, no calibration, srgb.</p>

<p>These images all look totally fine here – it must be something at your end (display/calibration).</p>

<p>All three look perfect in color managed Safari in OS 10.4.11.</p>

<p>Thanks for embedding the sRGB color space before you uploaded it otherwise my browser will assign my monitor profile which makes sRGB images look slightly over saturated.</p>

<p>I suspect your OS system isn't loading the correct custom calibrated display profile for Photoshop to render correct colors.<br /> What does a known color target like the PDI file look like? Download it from this site:</p>

<p>http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/pdi_download/</p>

<p>Skin tones in that target shouldn't look red. View it in both your raw converter if it can AND Photoshop.</p>

<p>You need to take your workflow out of the mix to see if Photoshop AND your raw converter ARE rendering correct color by referencing the intended system display profile.</p>

<p>And Windows browsers and image viewers aren't color managed so sRGB images will look over saturated and reddish on a wide gamut display.</p>

<p>All images look fine here. Firefox 3.6 and in Photoshop CS3.</p>

<p>The images are good.<br>

If you look at them using an application that doesn't use color management, the appearance will be oversaturated.<br>

You said you have a wide gamut monitor.</p>

<p>One more picture, to look at the issues and find out the cure.<br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4615500993/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4615500993/</a><br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4616116600/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/marco_landini/4616116600/</a></p>

 

<p>here the converted to srgb image without proofing and without curve adjustments</p>

<p>here the converted to srgb image after 2 steps proofing and relative red channel curve lowering</p>

<p>this is the original adobe rgb file , not converted, the same file as my first of the 4 attachements</p>

<p>this image is a scanning from a tri-x negative, edited in ps without any profile, and saved for web. no presence of any color shift. At that time, I had a cheap lcd monitor, now I have a wide gamut and trying to menage adobe rgb color workflow...I mess up a lot of things...I like this picture and I feel very frustrated not to get as correct results as before...</p>

<p>this image is a scanning from a tri-x negative, edited in ps without any profile, and saved for web. no presence of any color shift. At that time, I had a cheap lcd monitor, now I have a wide gamut and trying to menage adobe rgb color workflow...I mess up a lot of things...I like this picture and I feel very frustrated not to get as correct results as before...<br>

<a href="

<p>Marco, I'm suspecting your monitor profile is bad. I don't what caused it, but my suggestion to test it is temporarily change your default monitor profile to the standard sRGB color space profile and see if anything improves. Maybe view your monitor profile with the Windows Color Control Panel applet and see if there any obvious anomalies.</p>

<p>Marco, you're not going to get this solved until you view a known good file (PDI test target) and tell us what you see in Photoshop and your Raw converter if possible.</p>

<p>The first two and fourth images of the little girl looking out the window look all the same-an overall reddish to red orange to rust compared to your edited (2 step proof, reduced red) version which looks sort of desaturated with all reds looking kind of beige to greenish brown.</p>

<p>We don't know what image/scene you're referencing to tell you that image shouldn't be red. The image you posted IS red. Where are you seeing it NOT red?</p>

<p>Chas, you are saying the issue is about a bad monitor profile. It may be. But can you explain me why I see my pictures , posted on web or on unmenaged utilities, so bad and all other people pictures look good ? If my monitor profile is bad, I guess also the pictures of other members should look bad as my ones at my monitor. And why my pictures look good in photoshop in adiobe rgb color space, there and only there ? This suggest me that the issue is about color space conversion...</p>

<p>Tim , the point is : in a unmenaged utility, such as windows viewer , or on this post page in photonet, the only srgb converted from adobe rgb picture of the little girl that looks close to the original master in photoshop adobe rgb color space is the 3th one. You say it looks desaturated and greenish. At my monitor it looks neutral, very close to the master in photoshop adobe rgb. The other 3 pics look reddish at my monitor e so far from the original master adobe rgb.</p>

<p>Marco... So I'm probably wrong... just trying to eliminate the obvious. But you should take Tim's advice and view the PDI target image. You need a standardized reference file to recognize what the problem is.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>the original master in photoshop adobe rgb color space</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Looks correct/as it should/NOT RED/neutral like the 3rd edited version. Correct? From where did this master originate and what did it look like there BEFORE ANY EDITS? Did it originate from Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom? Was it a Raw file or jpeg straight from the camera?</p>

<p>You said the final image viewed online is RED when you view it in a <strong>non-color managed browser after converted to sRGB</strong> as you've indicated viewing it posted here at PN on your wide gamut display. To add...it looks different than the master viewed in Photoshop.</p>

<p>If this is correct, this is normal.</p>

<p>What would NOT BE NORMAL is if the 4th non-edited and non-converted AdobeRGB original also looked red viewing in a non-color managed browser on a wide gamut display. AND if it looks IDENTICAL with regards to the level of red to the non edited sRGB converted version viewed in a non-CM browser, then something is really wrong and beyond what can be solved in a forum exchange.</p>

<p>Just an afterthought, are you using Save For Web to post your images online? If so, don't use it for right now and post with a regular Save As... jpeg after converting to sRGB. SFW has settings which can screw up the preview and sometimes get folks to edit when they shouldn't. Let's keep it simple.</p>

<p>And how about that PDI target? I've asked several posts back and you still haven't said how it looks.</p>

 

<p>Marco, what do you see with the PDI image? How are the skin tones? How is the grayscale? Can you look at it in Photoshop and using your web browser? Can you convert it from AdobeRGB to sRGB and see what it looks like in PS and your browser?</p>

<p>When you go to Windows/control panel/display and find the color management tab, is your correct monitor profile selected?</p>