Christmas Cheer for M8 owners

Two events to lift the spirits of an M8 user have occurred already today:<p>(1) my letter from Leica

arrived offering me a lens at 30% discount. That's good.<p>(2) I found <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/

bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JHNm&tag=">this thread on the Canon forum</A>. That's even

better.

How long did they give you between camera purchase and expiration of the offered discount?

Maybe it's a sign for me to get the MP I've been thinking about.

 

Hmmm - I'll run it past the finance director (she'll definitely see through my ruse and deny access to req'd funds!).

 

 

Sadly, it seems that we're at a rocky crossroads without a paddle in the digital photo stream (I love mixing metaphors!). First Leica with the M8, then Sigma with it's 'delayed' SD14 and now Canon with a supposedly tested EOS DSLR!

Jochen: the order has to be placed before 30 June 07, which is reasonable.

Most photographers now take snaps of family and friends using inexpensive digital cameras. The vast majority of those images are deleted, e-mailed and/or saved on a hard drive; at least for a time. Most people have a throw away attitude towards consumer goods with their cheap,easy,and fast attibutes. Does a consumer attitude extend to digital images?

 

There is satisfaction in crafting images using the wet process. Traditional processes take longer and are less flexible regarding image control and distribution. But, my family members recognize a B&W silver gelatin print is special and it's unique qualities grow as time marches on.

 

There is a place for both workflows but a lightroom does not completely replace a darkroom.

Leica's doing some things right. I sent a lens in for cleaning and servicing and they sent it back no charge, and put the bar coding on it for free. It went in to Solms and only took a couple of weeks. Merry Christmas, Leica!

 

The Canon post is less of a glow. I don't see how somebody else's difficulties can make our lives better. Put another way, the M8's difficulties don't make the RD-1s a better machine, and neither do a Canon's difficulties fix an M8's problems.

 

That 30 pct discount is a sweet Christmas present. Where do you get the most bang for the buck? Wonder if they will cash it on a new ultrawide Tri-Elmar? :-)

<I>(2) I found this thread on the Canon forum. That's even better.</I><P>

 

Better? How does that translate into "Christmas Cheer" for M8 owners? How is that relevant?

<P>

 

But since you brought it up, there's a HUGE difference between someone getting a camera

that *may* be one-off defective, and a camera manufacturer that (apparently knowingly)

developed a defective product, and then when caught, offers band-aid solutions and lens

discounts to make up for the act.

OK, it was meant in fun, before anyone goes off on one. Perhaps I should have put one of

these :-) to make it totally and absolutely clear.

I must have missed something. Do we get a 30% discount on a lens if we bought an M8?

 

Thanks.

"I don't see how somebody else's difficulties can make our lives better." It doesn't. But it does improve our perspective (a bit). We keep hearing that Leica is not a digital/electronic company, so how can it possibly compete with the other guys. Well, Canon and Nikon didn't use to be computer/digital/electronic companies either. Only Sony and Panasonic. They've all (including Leica/Panasonic and Leica/Kodak) made deals with one another to produce new technology for photography. The problems are much greater than we can imagine. For the last couple of years it was common knowledge that no one could engineer a digital camera that could take Leica M lenses let alone produce an image that matched the quality of those lenses. Lecia has done that. And the development goes on.

 

We are clearly at a high water mark or golden age of photography. This became very clear to me when I bought my dauthter a Leica/Panasonic digital camera for $258 at Best Buy for Christmas. Huge number of eople crowding around the counters to buy the latest digital cameras and IPODs, most with very little knowledge of what they were buying. The Wall Street Journal this morning put the revenue at $20 billion dollars per quarter...that's 80 billion dollars a year in today's high tech product market place, which includes digital cameras.

 

What does this mean for us? A huge amount of corporate profit to dump into R&D to produce better and cheaper digital cameras, pigment ink printers for $600, and so forth. The improvement in inkjet printers and paper in the last 5 years has been phenomenal and unprecedented. All of these will only get better. The number of people doing serious photography will increase greatly and the number of high quality images that they (we) produce will be mind boggling for sure. How can any of us complain about any of this? The throw-away P&S market is generating an incredible amount of money so someone can deliver the highest possible digital camera and lenses for photography to us.

 

My only question for Leica is "In two years can I send my M8 (I don't actually have one yet) back to the factory to have the whole internal electronics replaced with the 16 or 20 megapixal receptor for $2000 to $3000, will I have to buy a whole new camera for $4000? At some point, you'd think someone would make this idea possible. You can do it with computer graphics cards, why not cameras? Or will the price of the new come down to that same level so it would make more sense to buy the new one? Most likely. That particular perspective is still very hard for me to change.

<I>For the last couple of years it was common knowledge that no one could engineer a

digital camera that could take Leica M lenses let alone produce an image that matched the

quality of those lenses.</I><P>

 

Common knowledge? Written in stone somewhere? More like no one other than leica has

wanted to do that, considering the relatively small volumes/$$$ at stake. You're not really

suggesting canon counldn't do that, are you?

"We are clearly at a high water mark or golden age of photography"

 

Call me nostalgic, but for me the golden age has come and gone. When I think Golden Age, I think HCB, Magnum, the grittier stuff from Don McCullen. It's rare to see photographs nowadays with that kind of impact. And something inside me rebels against relating a so-called golden age to equipment. To me a golden age is more about an ethos, a vision, a style.

 

Anyway, sorry for the OT digression.

{ "I don't see how somebody else's difficulties can make our lives better." It doesn't. But it does improve our perspective (a bit). }

 

Okay, put yet another way, "misery loves company"! :-)

Even with a ":)" it's an invalid comparison, so it's neither relevant or humorous. One guy with an un-verified problem with one sample of a camera that's nearing the end of a product cycle with 6-figure sales volume and very few reported issues, does not compare to a camera where every one of the <2000 sold thus far have been plagued with multiple bugs...and, an IR sensitivity that a)does not plague any other current digital in such magnitude, and b)the manufacturer "fixes" by the compulsory use of expensive filters on every lens.

Just like the phrase "Leica photography", I think we need to understand the phrase "Leica humor" to put it in proper context.

 

Hey Paul, don't laugh now, but how's ISO 1600 treating you? You know, (whole) grain is something some of us have as cereal for breakfast. And then we go out to take pictures.

I agree whole heartedly: "When I think Golden Age, I think HCB, Magnum, the grittier stuff from Don McCullen. It's rare to see photographs nowadays with that kind of impact." You cannot improve on their photography. I should have said "New" Golden Age of Photography, based on what the equipment will allow a larger number of potential artists to produce. So, golden only in the sense of a tremendous increase in quantity, of which some will match but never exceed the quality of the 20th century. Remember, it was the equipment revolution of the first half of the 20th century that allowed and helped create that so-called golden age. Expensive view cameras for a few independently wealthy people would not have done it.

It wasn't meant to be a valid comparison. In fact, it was meant to be an invalid comparison,

which is why...oh, I give up.

Paul, it is good to see Leica take some steps to show commitment to customers, although the M8 issues should never have lead to such commotion in the first place - inept management IMHO.

 

But, it's imaging issues like you pointed to in the Canon forum and more broadly, that make me stick to film - I know what I am getting. However I am looking forward to the day that a digital product meets my needs and I would get a lot of benefit from its convenience and day to day cost savings.

 

Like others pointed out, there is no doubt that the digital explosion has brought with it a lot of "consumer electronics" customer behaviour. The upside is that there must be huge numbers of new entrants in the photography sector helping it grow.

 

But, the down side is that many manufacturers are designing and building down to the lowest common denominator.

<I>You know, (whole) grain is something some of us have as cereal for breakfast.</I><P>

 

I don't think you should be encouraging people here to take in even more dietary fiber.

In fact, many here should cut back as it's already bringing out the best in them, and

on a regular basis...

I too think the golden age of photography has come and gone, where folks have images they made and kept with gear they kept. Now images are mostly never printed just lost eventually and the cameras are just thrown away as they are sold incidentally to computers or cell phones.

<i>"Call me nostalgic, but for me the golden age has come and gone. When I think Golden Age, I think HCB, Magnum, the grittier stuff from Don McCullen. It's rare to see photographs nowadays with that kind of impact."</i>

<p>

"Nostalgic" is not the word I'd use to describe you. I'd start with "pessimistic", work my way through "defeatist", and get creative from that point on.

<p>

Why do you get out of bed, Frederick? What is it that you do in your life or hobby that hasn't been done before, and better by someone in certain set of circumstances?

<p>

With that attitude, how do you inspire your children (assuming you have any)?<p>

Nachtwey and Salgado should also just go back to bed, I suppose. Or take up a different day job.

Paul, that's a silly comparison. How many 1D Mark IIs are being used by professionals world wide - each snapping thousands of photos every weekend? How many M8s are out there and look at all the bugs they found by a handful of owners snapping a few pictures of their cat. Good luck with your M8. Hopefully no other bugs turns up.

Yang: it was meant to be, but some seem to need a joke to be trumpeted aloud a few hours

in advance.