CF or XQD for D5? XQD + SD for D500?

<p>Memory card type has always been an interesting topic. There are reasons that I neither like Compact Flash nor Secure Digital (although SD also stands for SanDisk). CF has pretty much reached its speed limit, and I never like those vulnerable connection pins on the camera side. While I have never bent a pin inside a camera in over 10 years, I have seen that happen to friends, and I have also bent pins on some cheap card reader myself.</p>

<p>SD cards are small and cost effective, but I find them flimsy. I have literally cracked a few of them and worse yet, misplaced and lost a few, especially during travel. Once a card is lost, it is impossible to recover the images. In comparison, I have never lost a CF card since I bought the first one in 2002 for my D100. That 256M (that is M, not G) CF card cost me $100 in 2002 can now hold a grand total of 3 RAW files from the D810.</p>

<p>Back in 2012, I was delighted that Nikon started using XQD cards in the D4. I was hoping that the XQD would solve those issues with both CF and SD, and it would soon become popular and less expensive. Now 4 years later, that has yet to happen. Only Sony and Lexar make XQD cards; Sandisk doesn't. While some high-end Sony camcorders use XQD, among still cameras, only the Nikon D4 and D4S, plus the new D5 and D500 use them. Nikon is now sending mixed signals. In a way they are back-paddling offering a dual CF option on the new D5, but the D500 will have 1 each of SD (UHS-II) and XQD card slots. If one would like to use dual cards on the D500, you'll have to buy some XQD cards. Hopefully the pro-sumer D500 will help make the XQD more popular and the price will finally come down.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, high-end Canon and Canon-compatible camcorders have adopted competing CFast memory cards, which also solves those weaknesses with CF and SD, but the four card types are totally incompatible. To date, Canon has not put any CFast slot on their still DSLRs, but that may change if Canon announces a successor to the 1DX for the 2016 Olympics. Lexar, Sandisk, and Transcend produce CFast cards.</p>

<p>Since Nikon sells the D5 in two flavors: with 2 CF slots or 2 XQD slots, a few people have asked me in private communication which option to get. The more forward-looking side of me says 2 XQD because they are faster and have no pins. And if you use D5 + D500, XQD is the only common card between the two. However, CFast may win the war eventually.</p>

<p>I know that some D4/D4S owners wish the D4 had two CF slots just like Canon's 1DX. If you use a combination of D5, D4, and D800/D810, the only common card among them is the CF. CF is definitely more cost effective and some people may already have lots of them over the years.</p>

<p>The unknown is that the successor to the D810 should be emerging in a few months. It is unclear which card slots Nikon will put on that, as they are sending mixed signals with the D5 and D500. For those who may use the combination of D5 + "D810 successor," that becomes a question.</p>

<p>Please keep in mind that the memory card module inside the D5 can be swapped by Nikon for a fee. You can always get a D5 with CF for now. If XQD takes off in a year, you can still switch. And if you unfortunately end up with a bunch of wrong type memory cards, buying a complete new set will probably cost a few hundred dollars, which is merely a fraction of the $6500 cost for a D5.</p>

<p>It is also a possibility for Nikon to add a dual SD module for the D5 in the future, or perhaps even a CFast module, but doing so implies that Canon has won the memory card war. How about a module with one XQD slot and one SD slot? There are many different possibilities.</p>

<p>The CF version is not available in all markets. I only see XQD version marketed in Finland and in Norway it is reportedly the same; there is only one product in the catalogue. In the US market both versions seem to be available.</p>

<p>As of now, the D5 is not yet available in any market. I would imagine that both options will be available in all markets. The problem is that a store may have a D5 in stock, but not the version you want. That is going to be a logistics and inventory headache, hopefully just a mild one.</p>

<p>I recall that back in 1988, the F4 was only available with the vertical grip in the US. In Europe, the F4 was only available without the grip, which was an add-on option. Unfortunately, the D5's memory card module is not user exchangeable.</p>

<p>I don't know much about XQD but if you say the XQD is better then if I buy a D5 I would opt for the XQD. The cost of the memory cards don't bother me as I don't use a lot of them. Obsolete is an issue but you only need the cards when you use the camera. Many people upgrade cameras so quickly so that the memory card no matter what kind won't become obsolete. </p>

<p>Just checked Calumet UK's web site: https://www.calphoto.co.uk/category/nikon-professional-dslrs<br>

They have both D5 versions available for pre-order.</p>

<p>There is no clear definition for what is "better." I am more forward looking and prefer new technologies; hence I favor XQD. The problem with any new technology is that it may or may not work out. It maybe safer with established, older technology, which you may already own.</p>

<p>And if you use D5 + D3S, CF is the common card, so is D5 + D800/D810. For D5 + D500, XQD is the only common card.</p>

<p>Don't you love new technologies? Of course, most of us are not buying a D5, so this is mostly a moot point.</p>

<p>I suspect it's a downward spiral for <em>both</em> CF and XQD from now on. Anyone remember SmartMedia cards? - I thought not.</p>

<p>Once a card form factor starts to falter in the mass marketplace, I think it's pretty much all over. CF cards are now increasingly more difficult to find and increasingly less cost-effective.</p>

<p>When XQD was introduced, the last thing the world needed was yet another flash media format. And I still think the same today. That SD has evolved from a slow limit of 2GB to UHS enabled SDXC shows that faith in it wasn't misplaced, and that it's design was/is basically sound and fairly future proof. I don't see why that shouldn't continue, since its interface uses the native bus of flash memory. Whereas XQD places PCI-e between the memory chip(s) and the communicating device. I'm not sure how that's a quicker option or a forward step.</p>

<p>Shun, all that SD needs to make it more robust is a metal shell like Samsung place around their SDXC cards. Except it needs to be a steel or titanium shell not aluminium. As for losing cards? There's no safeguard against user carelessness I'm afraid. Maybe a little slot-in, anti-static storage "tube" (such as ICs are supplied in) would help on both counts.</p>

<p>Hopefully like Shun said Nikon can/will offer memory card modules in the future for the eventual winner in the card race. I was hoping the new D5 would offer CFast instead of XQD because I don't have a good feeling about the future of XQD. I would feel better if SanDisk was also manufacturing XQD cards. Plus at the moment CFast is the faster of the two, plus pricing is similar between them. Sony supporting XQD doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy either since they went all in on Betamax against VHS. Betamax was better but lost anyway. This is not an inexpensive decision either if you decide to go with XQD. I use 64gb cards in my D3S and like to have a spare or two with me. With XQD you are talking about $600-$800 for that setup. </p>

Rodeo Joe, I am just as careful with CF and SD. I have been using CF since 2002 and have never lost any. I started

using SD in 2010 with the D7000 and lost like 2 a year for 2, 3 years. I think the small size is definitely an issue. Now I am

super careful with them and haven't lost one for a while.

IMO SD cards have such poor longevity that I will avoid the format in the future. In my opinion it is only suitable for non-

critical use. I have not had any problems with CF cards. Popularity is not an indicator of quality. A lot of the time the best

products do not become standard but that doesn't mean they aren't better than what is more commonly used.

<p>I would not be comfortable using only memory cards that were available only from specialty stores hundreds of miles away. I'm still a supporter of SD cards, mostly because I can walk into stores in any small city and buy more if I need to.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p>I purchased a small Pelican brand waterproof case that holds 12 SD cards to try to help prevent losing them. Unused cards remain face up and used cards are put back in face down. So far that has served me well, but having said this I will probably lose one this afternoon.</p>

<p>Cards don't last forever anyway. I say get the newest technology for the newer cameras.</p>

 

<p>While the future of QXD cards is uncertain but I think most of the people who use D5 won't use them for more than 5, 6 years and thus it's not much of a problem. Although the D5 is expensive I think people who use them do upgrade cameras more often than someone like me. </p>

<p>You think those SD cards are bad, you should try those microSD cards. What was Nikon thinking, putting those in the latest Nikon 1 cameras. No way I could see using those on a regular basis.</p>

<p>I've got the situation with the D4 and the two different card types, and I could see where the D500 might fit well into my current kit, so I may have to do some research on those XQD cards, something I've avoided until now.</p>

<p>Ilkka, flash memory has a limited lifespan - full stop. It doesn't matter what shape or size the plastic wrapper around the chip is. The controller circuit can be (and is) designed to re-route internal storage to redundant areas if there's a failure in part of the memory, but eventually all or the majority of the storage cells will fail terminally. This is just the state of current flash memory technology.</p>

<p>Mechanical fragility is another matter, and as I previously posted, there's nothing to stop manufacturers making their SD cards more robust. Unfortunately we have Sandisk dominating the market, and their philosophy is obviously not to care about longevity, because they just sell more product that way.</p>

<p>QXD is clearly the superior format in terms of transfer (1 GB/sec) and capacity (2 Tbytes). But they are too darn expensive at this point in time.</p>

<p>CF cards are clearly on the decline.</p>

<p>For me, I'm fine with SD (and its progeny) for now.</p>

<p>But, if QXD gets traction and the prices start to come down, I would be fine going that directions.</p>

<p>TO the question, I would prefer a D500 in SD, but QXD doe the D5.</p>

<p>IMHO.</p>

<p>It is my understanding that the original XQD design was a joint venture among Sandisk, Sony, and Nikon, but once the final standard was published, Sandisk backed away. Only Sony manufactured XQD cards initially, for their broadcast camcorders. Lexar started making them around the time Nikon adopted XQD. But no one else makes them, and only the Sony camcorders and a couple of Nikon bodies use them, which is why the cards remain so expensive (as pointed out by several so far). Mr. Staubus also pointed out a rather important characteristic - availability. Low sales means fewer retail outlets will carry them, making them difficult to impossible to get when the need is urgent.</p>

<p>I see potential for a fatal flaw because of this. If XQD sales don't pick up by much, and Sandisk, Kingston, etc continue to stay away from XQD as a result, users may find themselves one day with a well-made, long life camera body for which memory cards are no longer available.</p>

<p>I have read a report from an individual who attended the CES in Las Vegas this past week, and he handled and shot with a D500 at the Nikon booth. He ran a consecutive shot burst using a (presumably Nikon-supplied) XQD card and got the advertised 200 raw images before hitting the buffer-full slow down. He repeated the test using only a 260 mb/s SD card, and hit the same slow down after only 74 raw images. It appears to me that if a user wants the advertised high number of consecutive frames at the highest frame rate from the cameras, XQD will be mandatory. I have not seen any data about a similar test of a D5, though.</p>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=2256390">Bob Flood, </a>I think those RAW buffer sizes are exaggerated. If you use the fastest XQD card, the camera can dump RAW files onto the card almost as far as the camera can capture them. Hence the camera can capture a lot of RAW files before the buffer gets full. But still, even 74 RAW images is plenty, and it is still plenty even if you cut that in half. Most sports action or wildlife action is not continuous for that long.</p>

<p>At least in my experience, memory cards get old because the technology improves, not because they fail. As I said, all of my old CF cards from 2002, 2003, 2004 are still with me. My oldest 256M CF card can hold only 3 RAW files from the D800, and it takes forever to write one image. Therefore, while it is technically "compatible" with the D800, we are really stretching the definition for what is compatible.</p>

<p>It is quite clear that SD is now the standard for amateur cameras, but they are too flimsy for pro work and that is exactly why CFast and XQD are now emerging. XQD is now at least used by four different Nikon DSLRs. No still camera is using CFast yet (although that may change very soon). Personally I wish there were only one new format, just like before every brand used the same format of 35mm film and same 120/220 film. Instead, we had VHS vs. Beta, BluRay vs. HD-DVD. There will be some losers.</p>

<p>For the D5, I think getting the XQD version really makes more sense unless you really don't need the speed and want to save money to reuse CF cards.</p>

<p>BTW, come to think of it, Nikon doesn't want a user-changeable memory card module because that would open the door to clones. I am not sure that the D5 market is big enough for a lot of clones to be profitable, but some brand can make CFast, SD ... modules for the D5. As long as you need to send it to a Nikon technician to change, they retain a lot more control</p>

<p>As well as I know it, Flash memory usually has a limit of 100,000 writes per location. (The file system is designed to randomize writes, such that they are approximately uniform over the card.)</p>

<p>It can be a problem if used for swap disk on a computer, but should not be a problem for normal camera use. (I suspect the connector will wear out before 100,000 insertions.)</p>

<p>CF cards seem to be readily available mail order, not so easy to find in nearby stores. I recently bought one to reach the free shipping minimum from a popular mail order store. Not as cheap as SD, but cheap enough. It would be nice to have an adapter to use SD in CF slots, but I haven't seen one.</p>

<p>Seems that the reason I never saw SD to CF adapters is that I didn't look:</p>

<p>http://www.amazon.com/Digigear-Extreme-Ultimate-Compact-Adapter/dp/B00EPMWT1M</p>

<p>only $13, works with SD, SDHC, SDXC, so should be plenty big enough.</p>

<p>Buy a few, put SDXC cards in each one!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I would not be comfortable using only memory cards that were available only from specialty stores hundreds of miles away. I'm still a supporter of SD cards, mostly because I can walk into stores in any small city and buy more if I need to.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There has not been a concern for me in decades.</p>

<p>In the 1980's and 1990's, I used mostly slide film such as Kodachrome and later on Fuji Velvia and Provia. Even small camera stores might not carry those. Supermarkets only carried print film.</p>

<p>To get the most our of the D500, you need SD cards that are compatible with UHS-II. Again, small store would only carry consumer SD cards, not those high-performance ones. In any case, the risk for getting some counterfeit SD card is pretty high from small stores and, of course, eBay.</p>

<p>As long as you are a serious photographer with higher-end equipment needs, you shouldn't be able to get your supply from local corner stores and supermarkets. Today mail ordering is so convenient, it is really not a concern. I travel to far corners in the world and always bring enough backup equipment so that there is never any need to buy stuffs in the last minute.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Seems that the reason I never saw SD to CF adapters is that I didn't look:<br>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EPMWT1M/?tag=nmphotonet-20" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Digigear-Extreme-Ultimate-Compact-Adapter/dp/B00EPMWT1M</a></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Glen, that "CF" adapter is of CF type II format, namely the thicker 5mm CF standard for the very old Micro Drives with a mechanical spinning disc just like traditional hard drive inside computers. I think the last Nikon DSLR I have that is compatible with CF Type II is the D300. Even the D300S is no longer compatible with the thicker Type II to make room for the extra SD slot.

</P>

<P>

The CF option for the D5 is only compatible with type 1 CF cards. You cannot use that particular adapter.</p>

<p>And Tim, yes, SD cards are small and are easy to lose. Micro SD is even worse. For small devices such as a wearable electronic watch, perhaps micro SD is necessary. E.g. I have an old GPS that uses micro SD. It is strange that Nikon uses micro SD on the V3 and J5 mirrorless.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>To get the most our of the D500, you need SD cards that are compatible with UHS-II. Again, small store would only carry consumer SD cards, not those high-performance ones. In any case, the risk for getting some counterfeit SD card is pretty high from small stores and, of course, eBay.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

Well, I wasn't thinking of small stores. I was thinking more about Walmart or maybe even Best Buy. There's been a number of times I been out somewhere and ran out of memory space. I simply went into the closest Walmart and bought more. And, clear up until 2003 Walmart carried slide film, as did a number of other national chains. No, it wasn't my preferred flavor, but they always had something to keep me shooting.<br>

<br>

For a similar reason I still shoot a .30-06 rifle. Some of my friends have suggested I move to a "sexier" caliber, such as .270 Weatherby Magnum, but I resist. I point out that if you run out or lose your .270 WM ammo while out hunting, it's most of a day's drive to find a store in a big enough city that will carry it out here. OTOH, every gas station in the Dakotas carries .30-06. Again, won't be your favorite load, but it will keep you in the field.<br>

<br>

Kent in SD</p>

<p>Fortunately I have a D200 which seems to allow for type II, but it looks like there are adapters for type I. I believe both for SD and micro-SD. Type I are thicker than SD, but I suppose it is a little easier to fit in a type II.</p>

<p>You could buy enough adapters, maybe the micro-SD version, put the cards in and keep them in. That also helps against losing them.</p>

<p>I have some SD cases that are the size of CF cases, maybe harder to lose.</p>

<p>4 Nikons and a slack-handful of other devices isn't going to provide a viable mass market for XQD. Divide that by the number of users that are actually going to push the speed or storage limit of the cards and you have a very small consumer base.</p>

<p>Nikon, IMHO you've made a serious boo-boo by backing XQD. If Canon jump on the XQD wagon, then that'll be a game changer - I won't be holding my breath for that to happen.</p>

<p>As for Sony. Well, they'd love to dominate the memory market like they've bought themselves top-banana in the performing-rights market. Unfortunately history has shown us that they've fallen on their face many times before with their proprietary memory format ambitions. Memory stick, memory stick pro, etc., etc. And in the end they had to provide adapters to make one format fit another.</p>

<p>Anyone for shares in an SD-to-XQD adapter startup?</p>

<p>Edit: I've been totting it up and I have at least £300 UK ($450 US) sunk into SDXC cards alone (10 cards at 30 quid a pop) and I don't consider myself a heavy user of memory cards. To replace those with XQD would cost at least twice or 3 times the amount, and that's a serious amount of money to be throwing on top of the body price of a new camera.</p>

XQD is not a Sony proprietary format, it is a standard of the CompactFlash association. Lexar makes those cards too.

Future cameras will push transfer feeds and require more, and CF is apparently as fast as it will go and its sales are

plummeting. Nikon chose XQD because it has lots of potential for faster and faster cards. However, one does pay a

premium for them, for now.