Capture One vs. ON1

Ok, I'm considering these as possible replacements to what I'm currently using -- Apple Aperture and Photoshop CS3. Both these are old, and both are basically unsupported. Both are also probably not going to work if I ever update my Mac. I may also update to a PC too and could do that now if I needed to (that is, at least, an option I'm considering).

 

So what I tend to do is to use Aperture as an organizer and also to do most of the fairly simple photo editing I do -- levels, saturation, exposure, occasional cloning stamp, and so on. I occasionally use photoshop to do more extensive cloning (like for dusty negatives for film) or for resizing photographs (and for non photo related layered documents).

 

What I'd like to be able to do, other than these things, if it were possible would be the following:

1. Believable HDR -- that is blending exposure levels from multiple frames

2. Keeping pictures in controlled normal file structures (even if I can't keep the non destructive editing changes, at least I want the original raws not inside a database as they are in Aperture). Aperture is kind of straining I think with my current database size and when I move everything out of aperture I will have to export originals (and probably edited versions too? unclear.). Next time I don't want to worry about where the originals are.

3. Profiles for my lenses -- mostly this is Leica lenses. Admittedly, they don't really require much correction but it would be nice to have and having corrections for other Leica M type lenses and Leica TM lenses would be nice too -- Voigtlander, Zeiss, etc. Not necessary, but would be nice. Yes I know Leica tends to work with Lightroom, but I don't want a subscription plan (I don 't want Capture one's subscription plan either).

4. It would be nice if whatever tool I chose lasted a while and I didn't have to do this over again in a couple of years. I know there is no knowing this, but it's a consideration.

 

So given those needs/wants, which of these tools would you buy? I think they both work with both Windows and Mac, but if you have any information that one of these works better with one than the other, please let me know. My current computer is an iMac 5K from 2014 (so it's 4 years old) but it has a 4GhZ Intel Core i7, 16GB of DD3 Ram, and a Radeon R9 M290X 2048 MB graphics card. So even though it's old and I will have to upgrade an a few years, it's probably capable of working OK for these tools as far as I can tell. Anyway, thanks and I realize that transitioning from Aperture's database to move everything over to a new tool is going to be a monster of work. Any suggestions on methodology will be welcome too.

 

Thanks in advance!

AdobePhotoshop Lightroom 6 (DVD)

LR 6 $149 perpetual license.

Except a) is this going to last, or is Adobe just going to stop offering that program for non subscription? And if they do, I'll have to do this all over again. And b) maybe one of the others is a better choice. My understanding (maybe wrong I don't know) is that Capture one is somewhat renowned for allowing you to manage the file structure of your photography files. Or do they all do that, not sure.

Except a) is this going to last, or is Adobe just going to stop offering that program for non subscription? And if they do, I'll have to do this all over again. And b) maybe one of the others is a better choice. My understanding (maybe wrong I don't know) is that Capture one is somewhat renowned for allowing you to manage the file structure of your photography files. Or do they all do that, not sure.

Except A: We can't win here can we ;)? You don't want to subscribe. So you either stick with a perpetual license for LR 6 (and never update) or buy another product and upgrade at a fee or subscribe. Up to you. Do you want us to make a buying decision for you? :eek:

Actually I was looking for opinions on the two programs I named in my original post. While I’m willing to entertain other options, that wasn’t what I asked.

Actually I was looking for opinions on the two programs I named in my original post. While I’m willing to entertain other options, that wasn’t what I asked.

Exactly, you want us to tell you what to buy! Opinions are like (you know what); why not download demo's of each and make a decision.

And in your original post, what two products would that be? You were told about Lightroom. In post #2 and #3.

I honestly don't know what you want us to tell you further.

For pete’s sake, just go back and look at the post. I want opinions on Capture One and ON1. I never once asked about lightroom. Nor am I interested in Lightroom. I’m sure it’s a fine program, but I am not interested. If you have any experience with the two I actually asked about, I’d like to hear it. Sheesh!

For pete’s sake, just go back and look at the post. I want opinions on Capture One and ON1. I never once asked about lightroom. Nor am I interested in Lightroom. I’m sure it’s a fine program, but I am not interested. If you have any experience with the two I actually asked about, I’d like to hear it. Sheesh!

DOWNLOAD a demo of each and do some work! FWIW, I DOWNLOADED both C1 and ON1 and purchased a copy of ON1. Happy now? I can assure you others have done the opposite.

I explained why above. I don't trust Adobe not to go subscription with LR6. You never get guarantees, but I would like a company who is committed to a pay as you go. As an amateur with lots of hobbies I sometimes go years without going out shooting. Then I get back to it. I don't want to pay subscription fees for times when I'm working on another hobby. I'm a retiree, I don't have unlimited resources. So forget LR6, for now anyway.

 

If you have used ON1 or Capture One, then what's your opinion of that program, in light of the tasks I current use Aperture for now (and Photoshop CS3 to some extent). What has been your experience with ON1 or Capture One? Have you had reliability issues? Are they hard to use? Do they allow you to set up your files the way you want, or do they grab all the images into a database (as Aperture does)? What do you see as their best feature? What is their worst fault?

Thing is, the OP is trying to decide on one of two paths that he has parsed choices down to, and is looking for input to help him decide between just those. The myriad other possibilities, good, better, or even best, aren't on the table.:)

Not an area I have either knowledge of or interest in. Binary choice - his money, his context. Though they generally make good choices, I can't even give my grown kids advice if it is outside of the stuff they have already settled on as one or the other.

There you have it - from one viewpoint, at least. Appreciate your helpful intent.

I'm not doing a business, just home use. Affinity Photo looks like it has everything I need EXCEPT the ability to organize the massive number of files I have. I use Aperture to import from my SD card and do simple image editing. I used to do that with just Photoshop but the number of images grew overwhelming. Maybe I just need ON1 for its browsing/importing? Does it do that well, and do these two tools work together?

 

Is Capture One the equivalent of both these tools? It seems to have both the editing and the organizing, but it's hard to tell from their advertising patter. Once I'm pretty convinced there's a chance they will work for me, I'll try to get demo versions, but I'd like to know more first. I didn't even know about Affinity photo till now.

I would bet a kitten’s left paw on it that Adobe has zero interest in making LR6 a subscription since they already have a billion dollar subscription service in place. They are of course interested in making you a paying subscriber BUT you can buy the DVD of LR6 that was linked by digitaldog and be safe forever.

And, as importantly, it's available as a perceptual license. They can't put that toothpaste back into the tube. Versions after that yes, they are subscription. Further, Adobe's success as you point out, has been huge in 'selling' subscriptions. The current version of LR is 8. So LR 6 isn't going to change a lick.

nd, as importantly, it's available as a perceptual

Perpetual?

Perpetual?

per·pet·u·al

/pərˈpeCH(o͞o)əl/

adjective

1. 1.
   never ending or changing.
   synonyms: everlasting, never-ending, eternal, permanent, unending, endless, without end, lasting, long-lasting, constant, abiding, enduring, perennial, timeless, ageless, deathless, undying, immortal;
   

You pay $149, once, you're done. Like all software prior to the subscription model.

There is a good review of C1P ver 11 here, and a quote from it: :

Capture One Pro 11 review

 

"So should you get Capture One Pro? First, you need to check it supports your camera’s raw files and has profiles for the lenses you use most often. Second, you need to be prepared to pay for the privilege of using a premium professional application. Third, you need to make sure that it works with the other programs you like to use as external editors and that you can get by with its desktop based approach."

 

In my case I am partially color blind . I rely on Nikon software to properly render (colors) in my RAW files. From what I have read, the next best software to use for this purpose is C1P as its RAW processor renders those NEF files better than Adobe software. So for me this feature is critical as I cannot trust my eyes to adjust sliders to get colors right.

 

I am very familiar with NIK's control points or U point technology as it is fully incorporated in Nikon Capture NX2 (no longer relevant for newer Nikon body NEF files.) . Unfortunatrely for me, the last NEF file supported by this program is from the Nikon D800e. Later Nikon bodies require you to use the free Nikon NX-D which now has control points in it, but it has weaknesses. I do use it to edit my NEF files in NX-D, create a TIFF and then process the TIFF in NX2 (and my version is fully integrated with NIK Color Effects Pro 3).

 

In C1P current version I believe I can access the new NIK software suite. But I am guessing I have to create an export file to do so. I am researching how to do this right now. If I can easily use NIK as an external editor from C1P, then I might pay the extra $$ for C1P and get the latest NIK suite.

 

And because of my understanding of NIK control points, I will also be looking at DXO Photo Lab, Elite edition as DXO now owns NIK. . Here is a review of it:

DxO Photo Lab Review

 

There are so many personal issues involved that it is hard to generalize what is best for you.

 

This link might help too: Capture One Pro or Lightroom??

Wow that is a GREAT review and there's one on ON1 on the site as well. I also read the CvsLR post. Thanks! I bookmarked that site for later. It certainly seems as though ON1 might be good enough all by itself. It might just be a big enough editor for me to use, though I suspect I might not be able to use it for non photo layered documents but that is a non-photo related issue for later. Might just be perfect and nicely priced.

 

Capture One is impressive too. Probably a better tool, but maybe not something I need. It doesn't look as if I can determine from the website if they can handle my raw files (mostly DNGs from Leica cameras, but also a smattering of other raws from Sony Nex-7, Canon 5D, and a few others in the past from my file archive) without downloading the demo version. Ditto with Capture one. I don't see a list of RAW file types to compare against. It seems probably that Capture One might be a better raw "developer", not sure.

 

I suspect I'm going to have to work out a decent file structure to build up as I extract the raws from Aperture's database/catalog. Then there was also a post on your link's website about migrating to other tools which was helpful. I might also migrate either jpegs or some other format for the "non destructive edited" files, if the edits were extensive. If not, I'll just migrate the raws. I did look at the DxO article too and it could be that that might be interesting too, but it might be too specialized a tool for me right now.

 

It sounds like ON1 should be the first one I download and evaluate. Thanks again. That was really very helpful.

I'm a happy CaptureOne user. I know it's more expensive then some other options, but I love the quality it can deliver, and the way it works. The latter is very much a personal preference, but for me a tool has to work in ways I like. Lightroom just doesn't work for me (and I tried in multiple stages of its life - it's very competent, the UI just doesn't suit me personally), just like DxO's Optic Pro never 'clicked'. C1 has a bit of a learning curve, then any of these programs do if you want to get the best out of them. Its UI can be customised very much to your own taste to make it suit your way of working.

In terms of the quality of conversions - you will find comparisons all over the place. In my opinion, the starting point of C1 (let's say the "default render") is better than what Adobe pulls out of the same file. But with a bit of editing, I think both packages are capable of very similar if not identical results. The deciding factor would be more the effort(s) involved in getting there.

Organising - it is certainly there. I think LR does it better, and the way the catalog works in C1 is a bit austere, but it does do all essentials (keywords, managing metadata and filtering on those).

In the years I have used C1, I have had need for their support a couple of times, and the experience with them is definitely positive. Quick responses, and genuinely helpful and to the point.

 

Since I decided to go with C1, I never bothered with ON1, so no opinion on that.

 

CaptureOne 12 was just released; it's early days (upgraded only 2 days ago) but so far I very much like what I see. It seems faster, the UI has gotten better and the new masking tools seem very nice. All in all, I feel version 12 will turn out a very solid release. Pricey, but to me worth it. I'd recommend downloading the trial and try for yourself, since a lot of this is just opinion, and whoever tells me that LR is better may well be right for his/her needs (but be wrong for my needs).

 

In C1P current version I believe I can access the new NIK software suite. But I am guessing I have to create an export file to do so.

 

In the new version, there is better support for round-tripping to external applications, but no idea if it works with NIK.

As a former Capture NX2 user (and I really liked that program!), I've also always been on the look-out for control-point-like functionality. While not identical, in C1 (since version 9 or 10), there is an option to make a layer mask based on a colour range fairly easy. It's a bit hidden, and for some reason they never promoted it heavily, but it works just fine. Once that layer mask is available, you can user nearly all tools on that layer, so it allows a way of working pretty similar in result to the U-points. Maybe not as instantly simple, but it works.

Another vote for Capture One. I’ve tried them all. It’s the best.

If you try On1 Photo Raw 2019, try it on an image that is somewhat noisy and compare that with whatever else you are evaluating. I find On1 PR 2019 really shows noise relative to LR CC Classic. It must be how the raw file is processed. I fear I may reduce noise too much with it and lose too much detail. On non-noisy images, the raw processing between LR and On1 both appear to be good. It's the noisy ones that worry me with On1.

I’ve spent a lot of time with both On1 2018 and C1 and I’m willing to talk about them and not Lightroom.

 

Both of them let you keep the images in a regular folder structure. The main file handling difference is that in C1 you’re still importing folders of images (originals are left in place, previews and edits are added to your C1 catalog folder; what you see in the C1 browser panel is the folder structure on disk and if you move the files there’s a function to provide the new location in the C1 browser).

 

In On1 you’re using their file browser to browse the files in place, and when you make edits they’re saved in a “sidecar” file, which is a file with the same name as the original and a different extension that goes in the same place. When you go back to the same file, On1 renders the edits again using the sidecar as instructions. So if you want to take the file to another computer you copy the sidecar file and it loads like you think it should. But this approach does make the software feel slow, because it’s always re-rendering images from raw. There is also the option to catalog folders for faster loading and searching but this is slow too so you probably only want to catalog your most recent folders.

 

On1 has a built in hdr maker that’s very good, and makes panos and focus stacks easy; C1 doesn’t. C1 is usually the best thing at high quality raw conversion, and if you happen to have a Fuji you’ll see much better detail in C1. So I find C1 best at natural renderings - exposure, highlights, shadows, a bit of split tone, clarity, CA and distortion correction (and film mode for Fuji) and you can end up with a great result. On1’s real power comes from its effects - filter simulations, dynamic contrast, sunlight filter, etc. If you want prepackaged “looks” that’s also something On1 is good at.

 

On1 is a newer package that’s been targeted at consumers and only recently marketed to pros and demanding enthusiasts. Their development style has been implement features first, debug later. I still get crashes. That and the sluggishness when going through many images have made me use it less. C1 has been for pros from the start (it was originally written to use with Phase One medium format equipment, and the industrial grade approach remains). It’s solid and fast.

If you’re planning to use Affinity for the actual processing of the files you may want to look at these open-source programs for photo-management. Obviously not as refined as C1 but could very easily work for an advanced enthusiast.

 

 

digiKam

 

RawTherapee Blog

 

darktable - the photo workflow software

 

Again just presenting these as an option to look at. None of them are great but I like the concept of open source for the archival nature of software that hopefully will last(and the cost). I've tried the other software talked about in this thread and find them all to be overily complicated, trying to be both photo management as well as editor. For me personally I would rather just a photo-management software knowing I will have to do any and all processing through Affinity including any Raw conversions. I apologize if I'm sidetracking your orginal question, not intended.

Both of them let you keep the images in a regular folder structure. The main file handling difference is that in C1 you’re still importing folders of images (originals are left in place, previews and edits are added to your C1 catalog folder; what you see in the C1 browser panel is the folder structure on disk and if you move the files there’s a function to provide the new location in the C1 browser).

It has been some time since I checked in on Photo.net. I don't know if the original poster already made their decision, but this statement that Capture One requires "importing" is inaccurate. Sessions in Capture One do not require "importing". Sessions are file based. Capture One Catalogs use a database much like Aperture or Lightroom. The ability to use both sessions and catalogs is one of the great features of Capture One. Many users process their images in sessions, then import those sessions into archive catalogs for long term management and searching.

 

Capture One 12.1 was released this week. Version 12 has some really amazing features.