Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by hawkman, Sep 4, 2008.
the 'moon'... shoot the moon. oh, come on. that really sounds like a consumer full-frame to me. i'll take
No built in flash. Looks like the expected 5D replacement.
Canon is so naughty.
I can read $1499 Full frame. But I have special glasses
Special glasses indeed.... ;o)
This is wrong on so many levels.....but I guess we deserve it. The teasing that is.
There are now teasers on canon UK website http://www.canon.co.uk/ and canon france web site too.
Teaser says - "See the future of photography. Stay tuned"
Future of photography.. OMG has canon done something drastic to photography or what? I hope we will continue using cameras
Ummm maybe we will use film again.... )
You mean i'll (finally) be able to take pictures of the moon with this?
Seriously though, the fact it Doesn't have a built in flash is encouraging.... very encouraging.
Too bad it's not a raw files so we can increase exposure to see what it looks like
I cant wait. Its killing me. Reason? I own a 1D3 and love the high ISO capability. I was told by some people in the
business that Canon has been experimenting with a new "Low" voltage tech. with its new sensor stuff. Supposed to
cut noise in half. I didnt think much of it. You know... the ones who really know aint telling.
But see the new 50D. Canon reports to cut 50D noise by more than 1 stop even after cramming 5 million more pixels
in the same area. Now imagine if the 1D3 gets only 12mp with the new stuff. Or even 15. The density is still less. I'm
getting chills right now thinking
about it. This is just a taste. I'm starting to think my info holds some water.
Imagine what the 5DII will bring to the table. Then, what the new 1 Series will do. If all specs are right "when" a 1D3n
comes, someone will get a nice deal on a 1D3. I dont care about the AF BS. Mines been great. I'm after the new
LCD and better ISO if its leaps ahead of whats already wonderfull. If not much better, I'll keep it. But boy Canon
really knows how to stir anticipation. A - Holes!
>>>"Too bad it's not a raw files so we can increase exposure to see what it looks like "<<<
I bet I can close my eyes and be 99% right on the money as to what it will look like. The other 1% is if it will have that #@%$# dedicated direct print button.
" "Low" voltage tech. with its new sensor stuff. Supposed to cut noise in half."
voltage has nothing to do with noise, it saves power.
>>>"voltage has nothing to do with noise, it saves power."<<<
According to Canon it does....less voltage also reduces heat, that inturn means less noise. That is were long exposures always meant more noise if done one right after the other, the sensor heats up and noise becomes more of an issue.
Cutting Noise in "half"....I would not think that is even close to being remotely true. It just helps some.
saying it's 'evolutionary' suggests a new kind of body. 5D mark 2 or a consumer full-frame body (including a pink 'for her' model) would be nice, but those aren't 'evolutionary' moves, they're simply new
models. an evolution would be something that can shoot both ef and ef-s lenses, or a has new kind of
sensor, or a shutter-less camera (or a non-mechanical shutter).
or...all this could just be advertising hype. still, it's cool to think canon has a real innovation. they'd be
the ones to get there first. either way i'm getting a new canon in a few weeks -- whether it's just a new
model or a true evolution in dslr technology remains to be seen.
"According to Canon it does....less voltage also reduces heat, that inturn means less noise. That is were long exposures always meant more noise if done one right after the other, the sensor heats up and noise becomes more of an issue. "
Well for long exposures it might but not for normal high iso, I think the lower voltage is mainly due to extended use of live view. btw, where did you read from Canon that they said they are using a lower voltage sensor?
people are saying that some 'evolution' sites show the camera with a pop-up flash, while others (in other
I haven't seen one with the pop-up. Comparison based on Japanese site "teaser"
My guess is the the "destined evolution" is all about the eventual merging of still photography with video...
It's going to have the new "blink" prevention technology....
Canon has made a major breakthrough with a solution to that age-old problem in photography, where your subjects always seem to manage to blink at the very moment you press the shutter release.
Working in conjunction with redeye reduction, face recognition and the AF assist system, the camera will now project an energy beam that grips your subjects' eyelids and holds them open until after the shutter is released. Just imagine, no more photos with eyes closed!
It will be called "Eye Control II" and will finally conquer one of the last remaining frontiers of photography.
Note: I got this info from a very solid source... My brother-in-law knows the sister of someone who works at the photo counter in Walgreens.
Rumour threads have a short life...
But after a long day at work these are soooo much fun to read...
If th energy beam works, perhaps it could be used for in-body stabilisation... Or perhaps the MkIII model will simply freeze the subjects - now it works on subject movement too ;-)
Bob's going to remove me for this irrelevant twaddle of course!
Arash> I was told that they are using lower voltage systems. The entire system operates on lower voltage. Noise is
created from higher voltage signals by boosting ISO. Go from 400 to 800 and you double the voltage signals which in
turn creates digital noise.
Anytime you amplify an electrical signal, it creates noise. Now for sake of conversation because I have no idea what
parameters are used. Lets say they cut the voltage used by ever component to work with half the voltage the current
models use(more efficent) then because the voltage is less it would have less digital noise impact on the image.
Also what Jason said, runs cooler which drops noise levels, but obviously not by half. This would say maybe provide
a 25% better noise level while the impact of the other would stack up to a total of half the noise level. Or 1 stop.
This could still turn out not true as I said. But its starting to look like it holds some water looking at the tease we got
from the 50D. Canon itself says the 50D 3200 ISO would be equivilent to 40D ISO 1100-1600. Per Canon. Even after
cramming an additional 50% more pixles in. I think the 5DII will out do this improvemnet, and thus the 1 will be even
better. Maybe matching the future 1D3n ISO 6400=50D ISO 1100-1600 or in that range.
Lets be realistic and say Canon adds 50% pixel count to 5DII. Giving it around 18MP. Its only 3MP more than the
50D but with a larger sensor to space the congestion. Add the new tech and I think its gonna be pretty good. I would
personally like to see it as a 14MP FF with the new stuff and really hit a homerun with this noise thing. They've done
it before, why not again. Whos to say they dont keep it like Nikon and stay 12mp just for pixel density benifits and
leave the High MP count for the guys in studios or broad daylight who seldom leave 400 ISO anyway. Give them
the 1Ds Mark 3 for D3x competition. None the less, we'll see in 3 weeks if any of us are right or way off.
someone did a comparison of the 5d to the silhouette featured in the 'evolution' site and came up with this:
>>Arash> I was told that they are using lower voltage systems. The entire system operates on lower voltage. Noise is created from higher voltage signals by boosting ISO. Go from 400 to 800 and you double the voltage signals which in turn creates digital noise. <<
The signal is from the light absorbed by the sesnor, this is different from sensor's bias voltage or VDD which you mention has been lowered. going from ISO 400 to 800 you double the gain for row and column sense amplifiers, as a result noise which is embded in the signal is amplified too. this happnes regardless of VDD value.
"Anytime you amplify an electrical signal, it creates noise."
true, amplifier has a finite noise figure so you add noise, but sense amplifiers in a modern CMOS have very low noise figures, so this is nothing compared to the noise from the sensor itslef.
"then because the voltage is less it would have less digital noise impact on the image"
As I mentioned noise has nothing to do with voltage level, it is not correct to say "voltage creates noise" the only impact that a lower voltage sensor might have is that as someone pointed, it may run cooler and thus decrease thermal noise which is proportional to KT for long exposures. Sensor noise is not thermal noise, it is mainly shot-type noise and defects in the CMOS fabrication process, like any other digital device.
"This could still turn out not true as I said. But its starting to look like it holds some water looking at the tease we got from the 50D. Canon itself says the 50D 3200 ISO would be equivilent to 40D ISO 1100-1600. Per Canon."
looking at ISO 800 sample from dpreview.com with no SW noise reduction, I tend to believe the 1 or so stop claimed lower noise in the 50D is achieved more by SW noise reduction rather than sensor improvements.
Errrr.....hmm......looks like a Nikon..........
It is going to be a camera "with frickin' laser beams".
I wonder if any of the posters in these threads are actually Canon marketing people. Sure Canon might not like leaks, but I suspect they like the idea of nobody noticing their camera even less.
I'd bet money on it.
I wonder if any of the posters in these threads are actually Canon marketing people. Sure Canon might not like leaks, but I suspect they like the idea of nobody noticing their camera even less.
I think that's a rather paranoid opinion. (BUY CANON!) Whatever would make you think that a company would do such a thing? (BUY CANON!) I can't imagine any self respecting corporation trying to subvert threads with their subliminal messages. (BUY CANON!) I'm sure everyone here is a real person, and that nobody is a corporate tool trying to spread a self serving message. (BUY CANON!)
I wonder if any of the posters in these threads are actually Canon marketing people. Sure Canon might not like leaks, but I suspect they like the idea of nobody noticing their camera even less. And I wonder if anyone here have already received marketing info and/or sample copies and are already quietly reviewing it under NDAs ?
You people really believe camera companies would engage in that kind of surreptitious promotion? Anyone who believes that is thinking leica paranoid.
Most of the magazines (according to various reports) have already taken delivery of the 5D replacement to review. I'm sure a few pros have taken delivery as well to try for themselves and provide some post-release feedback.
I've heard two versions will be available;
A "Gap" model in a series of 6 pastel body colors; and
A "Hummer" model with included body armor and better weather sealing.
Both versions will have advanced "Face Detection".
Only Time Will Tell!
You mean i'll (finally) be able to take pictures of the moon with this?
You're thinking of the wrong sort of moon. This one takes the face-detection AF technology that's been in P&Ses for a little while now, and which just appeared in the 50D, and extends it to moon detection. This makes it easier to take embarrassing photos of your butt crack for posting on Facebook. No longer do you have to set the thing to focus at approximately the right distance, hit the self-timer, and run to get into position while dropping your drawers. Now you just activate moon-detection AF, trip the shutter, and take your time; once you're in position, the camera will automatically focus on your moon and take the picture.
Don't forget that you can use this in combination with the much-beloved Print button. If you have the camera hooked up to your printer at the time, it will print glossy 8x10" prints of your moon until you run out of paper. And a new feature in EOS Utility will automatically email the picture to everyone in your address book if you are shooting in tethered mode at the time.
"nougat", the Canon insider who only appears on DPReview shortly before a new model, had this to say several
months ago: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&message=28549167&changemode=1. He
leaked the 40D info and was told he was nuts because it was barely anything more than the 30D on paper. He
leaked the Rebel XSi with great accuracy many months before it was announced. He leaked the Rebel XS and was
told Canon would never produce it. And he leaked the 50D specs to a crowd that told him there's no way Canon
would release something so soon and with 15MP on a crop sensor. So I'd say he has a pretty good chance of
getting it right with the 5D MkII even though his information is months out of date. Read the entire thread (some of it
is tongue-in-cheek) and he goes into great detail about how much time and effort Canon has put in to making the
world's most low-noise image sensor, and the difficulties the engineers had with keeping the heat down with Live
View. He also explains pricing for Canon's parts (like the VGA screen). I'm certainly going to pre-order one as soon
as I can.
Looking at the teaser on the canon.co.uk/ site, it appears that the "floating" camera does not have a dial like the
current 5D. I'm speculating the top will have the same controls as the 1 series cameras. Kinda like the EOS-1N, but digital!
I'm starting to think some people are going to start announcing larger than FF sensors. My tech friends say there's no rhyme or reason for making chips larger rather than denser, but it would give these companies a new opportunity to sell lenses.
Wow, how sexy is this...
I started a similar post 20 hr ago, linking to exactly the same canon website and my threat got ... closed and then deleted.
May be this reply will get mod as well.
Sometimes it's best to join in a post rather then starting one
Omega NC, This post was already up and going before you posted. There was no need to have two post announceing the same thing.
The only issue I have with the specs Nougat laid out is the lack of live view. I find it VERY usefull for tripod work. Other than that, the camera sounds just perfect.
I think this kind of ad is damage control, an effort to delay a consumer shift to Nikon. They've been temporarily outdone by the latest Nikon salvos, and they are asking the consumer to wait as they prepare for more spirited competition. Gotta think there is good news to come for all of us.
do people really junk ship (Canon to nikon) that easily in the market at which the 5Dmk2 is aimed at?
I meant "jump ship" not "junk ship"
Also, I can see it happening for the sub $1000 consumer cameras, but for the $2k+ cameras?
I can't imagine a huge crowd of Canon 5D users jumping to Nikon, either, even with how long Canon has let everything else (both its own bodies and its competitors') advance while the 5D stagnated. If you have a higher-end body like the 5D, you probably have at least a couple of high-end lenses, and so the cost of jumping ship has to include replacing all your expensive lenses as well as your expensive body. If this was the four-thirds world, where your existing lenses work on other manufacturers' bodies, I don't think there'd have been anywhere near as long a wait for the 5D II.
So I agree: it's one thing to jump ship when you can get a new body and a cheapie kit lens for under a grand (even without the trade-in value of your old body and cheapie kit lens) but another entirely when you're looking at several thousand bucks to trade in an entire system. Sure, some people will make the move, particularly if they're doing this for a living and find they're losing business to other photographers in the area who are using up-to-date equipment. And people who have a low-end body and a cheapie kit lens and are looking at moving up are probably particularly likely to jump ship rather than move up to a higher-end body that is missing all the modern features they already have in their lower-end body (although I suspect the number of Rebel-family or 40D/50D-family buyers who end up moving to a 5D or similar is a very small fraction of the marketplace). But I have to believe that most 5D owners will hang onto their 5D until Canon introduces its replacement, and then buy the new model.
>>According to Canon it does....less voltage also reduces heat, that inturn means less noise. That is were long exposures always meant more noise if done one right after the other, the sensor heats up and noise becomes more of an issue.
If heat is all that causes noise, then
Why dont they use coolent to reduce the heat (like we use in machine tools) Or why dont they just put a small fan there to reduce the heat Perhaps another petantable idea?
Has the price been leaked ?
>>>I can see it happening for the sub $1000 consumer cameras, but for the $2k+ cameras?
It is possible in few cases, that a Canon dslr user will upgrade to costlier Nikon DSLR (or vice versa).
For example the one with Nikon D40 and kit lenses wants to inest in something serious, then he might look to move to Canon because he does not have any significant investments in lenses.
My Canon 350D is 3 years old and I dont have L lenses (costly lenses). So if I decide to move higher up (mainly full frame) then I will definitely consider entire system cost and pro's / con's. I will compare new 5D against D700 to decide on my upgrade. (However, this is just an example. I am not going to upgrade in near future unless I win lotto!)
The point is, jump ship might happen for the higher end DSLRs too.
"...then why don't they use coolant to reduce the heat..."
Astronomers sometimes use ice or other refrigeration techniques with digital cameras to reduce noise. It's more of an issue with long shutter openings -- and live view.
"The point is, jump ship might happen for the higher end DSLRs too."
I somewhat doubt it... while you are correct in your particular situation, I think that is the exception, not the rule. I have a significant investment in L lenses, and most paid photogs and pros are in the same boat. It's a major cost to overhaul your entire collection. Not only would I need to buy a new body, but I would also need the 24-70 F2.8, 14-24 F2.8, and 70-200 F2.8 VR. Not a cheap prospect in any sense. Plus, since I always need a backup body, I would also need to purchase a second body... likely a D300 or D90 which is a $1000-$1800 prospect to tack on top. Not to mention any flashes or other equipment that isn't cross-platform compatible.
All said and done, it's a stretch to think that anyone with any kind of investment in one system is going to 'jump ship' no matter what the other side offers. For the most part, barring a major advantage, D3/D300 shooters are Dx/Dxxx shooters and 1D/5D shooters are xD shooters.
looks like it will called a 7D
The 7D picture in dpreviwe forum is probably fake. So I am not sure the credibility of the information about 5D upgrade. Canon China is not leaking 7D this time.
BTW some of the forum members mentioned that the 7D is 1.3x crop camera and will be positioned between 50D and new 5D. Again - I am not sure how credible this information is... but I never thought there would be any new camera from Canon with 1.3X crop factor...
Will have to wait until some Canon web site leaks it or announces it...
Well, I take that back I just do a google search on Canon web site and the Canon teaser page comes up! This means there is some reference to "7D" may be file name or the name of the image... Here is attachment
"This means there is some reference to "7D" may be file name or the name of the image..."
Nope. It just means people have been linking to that page on other websites while referencing "7D". You can bring up the page source on the EVOLUTION page, but it's just the normal html; everything is inside the swf (flash).
Probably you get a free trip to the moon ?
The new sony Alpha...
Well lets see what they announce... but perhaps the moon is a bit too crpytic. Although you never know... announcement at the full moon which occurs in Europe in around 5 days.(someone can correct my lack of diary).
MSRP with IS built into the body for less than $3000!
Now that Sony has announced it's suggested retail price perhaps Canon will come forward.
The photos in the DP Review and the price of the Sony sure do make it an attractive alternative. Now if Canon wil bring the 21 MP 5D MK II in for less than $2500, That would be interesting.
"reference to "7D" may be file name or the name of the image..."
7D is also a valid term in Canon's healthcare market -- the retinal camera.
"The photos in the DP Review and the price of the Sony sure do make it an attractive alternative. Now if Canon wil bring the 21 MP 5D MK II in for less than $2500, That would be interesting."
With this image quality at ISO 200
This camera offers no competition for either Canon or Nikon at this time.
>> This camera offers no competition for either Canon or Nikon at this time.
Well, we can't conclude at this time unless A900 is shot side by side with Canons/ Nikons same time, same lighting conditions, similar settings. I observed though that the shadow areas in the scene are very well exposed without blowing up highlights of the sky, so I guess good dynamic range handling is there.
One more thing is A900 weights just 850 grams which is unbelievable. Have they used plastic to reduce the weight?
On paper :light weight, in body image stabilization, low price (if iti is 3000$) looks promising for the Full Frame DSLR. Lens also look good (although the pricing is unkown at this point of time) Just dont know how A900 system will behave in the field. Will have to wait for tests. It would be good if Bob Atkins can test it. dpreview / imaging-resource / luminous landscape will produce their test reports anyway.
But it's so freakin' huge!
"Well, we can't conclude at this time unless A900 is shot side by side with Canons/ Nikons same time, same lighting conditions, similar settings. I observed though that the shadow areas in the scene are very well exposed without blowing up highlights of the sky, so I guess good dynamic range handling is there. " I am not sure what you are looking at, look at foreground it is crawling with noise and digital artifacts. No modern DSLR camera has this much noise in well lit ISO200 shot--I am sorry.
Here is a comprasion between the Sony 24 mpixel and Nikon D700, despite having twice as many pixels Sony captures less fabric detail. Those extra megapixels only create aditional heat when you process the images in your computer. I think it is time for people to realize that more in numbers is not always better. This is similar to the situation with respect to CPUs a few year back when all they were doing was increasing core clock frequency. After a while Intel realized the apprach was wrong and started moving towards more efficient architectures instead of more "MHz". The same will happen in camera market. Nikon has already picked a 12 Mpixel healthy sesnsor...I hope Canon doesn't make Sony's mistake.
I saw other sample shots on other websites too.. and A900 does seem to be noisier than other full frames.
Imaging resource (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA900/AA900A.HTM) mentioned that they tested on
production A900 ("we've just posted a full Sony A900 review based on an early production sample camera". How ever
how this was possible, since A900 is yet to come to market).
They did mention that there is noise even at ISO 200. They mentioned few good points too - to mention a few.
However it is true that at this price point one would not expcet that high amount of noise.
# Built-in SteadyShot image stabilization
# Surprisingly fast, given the amount of data the camera is pushing around
# Good color rendering: Natural without seeming flat
# Huge viewfinder image, really hearkens back to the days of film SLRs (in a good way)
"since A900 is yet to come to market"
It isn't uncommon for reputable review website like Imaging resource to have a sample camera before it is released to the public, dpreview.com has a preview too with a sample gallery so Sony was apparently confident of the samples going online. It is likely that they even have the 5D replacement and are producing a preview as of now...
The alpha surely has a nice finder and I actually like the style of the body, looks like a manual professional camera, but my point was unfortunately at this price ($3000) which is the same as Nikon D700 with more features and better image quality it is hard to imagine that Nikon and Canon will be forced to rethink their pricing policy. If this camera was priced at something closer to $1500-$2000 (which btw used to be the very top of the line film cameras before digital) then it would offer some competition and maybe cause prices to drop a bit...but as it as, I don't see many people who would be looking at D700 and 5D replacement considering this camera...
Here is another perspective on Sony A900 review. There is comparison with Canon EOS 1Ds Mk III too.
The author gave thumps up to the camera based on his experience.
Is it my imagination; or does each time it load (different day) the image gets increasingly stronger...?
The image does not get stronger, but when I look it on my office computer it looks weak and when I look at it from my home laptop it looks more detailed. But the two versions (office & home) are same from the day I saw first. I think it is something to do with display settings of monitor .
I cannot get the teaser image any clear than this:
Someone else now posted that the image is also gettng clearer... as on my version I see the word Canon clearly
displayed across the top; a blocked out lens etc. If you dont see it you might need to refresh your page / cache
yes it is being unshadowed progressively-here is how it looks today. note that there is no popup flash bottom (for
good or bad) and also EOS logo is etched on the body like the 1 series cameras instead of being on a badge.
Canon is cheating by letting the moon turn the reverse way around the Earth and going slower than the real moon. The part showing Mare Crisium (the small round 'sea' at the upper right edge) is the first to become exposed after New Moon. The sunlight should have appeared on the right hand side and we would have the correct model name exposed way sooner! In fact, the progress is also much slower than our current real moon. We have a waxing gibbous moon already. It is lagging by a week or so. So the hypothesis that Full Moon will be the date the new camera is revealed may not be correct either, count on a week later, at the start of Photokina.
Obviously Canon's new camera is upsetting the natural balance of the universe.
Yeah, Oscar. You should know that the 5D II has its own orbit and gravity. Just look at us all, pulled along in its tide...
Can we change the title of this thread
It says "Canon teaser ads for new DSLR - It won't be too long..."
But Canon is now stretching it too long. I can see that the enthusiasm about the new camera is already dropped down (compared to first 3-4 days) a lot, and people started discussing other topics.
Just checked the site this morning and the lighter part of the moon seems to have extended further around, although I can't really see anything further of the camera. But clearly its a countdown to the release
Today it actually does show Mare Crisium...... but it is on the left side of the moon. Compare with this moon and you have to conclude we get to see the back side of the moon, only visible from space. Rotation is the reverse and the position in the orbit around the Earth is different. Canon really will turn the physical world upside down with this camera, apparently.... (hopefully their knowledge of cameras is better than that of the moon)
Who Cares.....You people have way to much time on your hands!
The moon is lighter, and that is significant? I have to agree with Mark - too much time on your hands.
Me? I'm going out to make shots with my OLD 5D. When my local shop has the MkII on the shelf, then i can compare
I get a kick out of folks who have so much time on their hands they stop by to comment on how much time everyone else
has on their hands. ;-)
I think this post nicely summarises the situation:
Went to the teaser this evening and boy was I surprised. The camera is now clearly a Nikon D700. Guess Canon is using the teaser to conceed to Nikon.LOL
This is such a dumb immature marketing game. Either release a new body, but stop with the games. Just tell us the date when Canon will announce the new body that will be available for distribution two months latter.
This is all about a build up to an announcement, and Canon usually does not have product available to sell when they make an announcement so why all the drama? Is this Canon's way of saying that the New body will NOT be abvailable for the holidays and they want everyone to wait till January to buy their holiday gifts?
Dave, why are you paying attention if it bothers you so much? It takes two to tango and how you feel about it makes no practical difference.
Beautiful moon out tonite -- my brother with his Bronica ETRS and myself with my Mamiya M645. Ah, no sight of a new EOS out there yet.
Patience -- I have nothing but time -- I'd much rather wait than perform an unspeakable act of photographic passion at the thralls of new equipment!
What's your point? You posted on the EOS forum to say you don't use EOS? Seems like a waste to me.
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