Canon has a BIG target for the 5dmkIII

<p>After seeing the specs and early info on the Nikon D800 I hope Canon's replacement for the 5DMkii is even better. The Nikon body sets the standard pretty high.<br>

Add in Nikons much better control of strobes and you have a target that will be hard to match, much less surpass. I would love to see them do it and have at least 6 frames per second with motor on continuous. Would be a great tool for photojournalism and wildlife without the price tag of the newer Uberbody pro model.<br>

Will be interesting to see what happens. Sure looks like we are going to benefit from the competition once again.</p>

<p>Don't get your hopes up too much. Canon has a history of protecting the sales of their pro-models. They tend to cripple the prosumer cameras. Whatever the specs will be, they will be significantly different (e.g. less) than the 1DX (with the exception of resolution).</p>

<p>Canon will learn a hard lesson, no question, about this camera and the mirrorless market. Like the saying goes (taken from Jobs' biography) if you don't' cannibalize your produce line, someone else will. The last report I saw about market share in Japan (sometimes a decent indicator of future worldwide patterns) the biggest selling lens mount was m4/3. Hopefully, Canon will introduce something decent and now worry about one product line eating another. Whatever the 5D III is, Canon should smarten up and stop dumbing it down, like they did with the 5D II.</p>

<p>That said, I'm not jumping ship for some very specific reasons: the 24-120 and 70-200 f4 IS. Nikon has nothing like them.</p>

<p>There's a major photo show in Japan starting today where all the manufacturers are showing their products. Nikon for the moment seems to have an edge with the new D800. I'm sure Canon has an answer coming in the future (5D3/1DS4?). Some quick specs on the D800 from Nikon:<br />36mp (full frame), ISO 50-25600, 51 af sensors with 15 cross sensors, af works down to F8, dual card slots - CF/SD, 900 shots per battery charge, weather & dust sealed, 4 fps or 6fps with battery grip option, buffer capacity 21 raw or 56 jpeg, $2999</p>

<p>Being a D700 and a 5D MkII user, Nikon has just raised the bar considerably. I love my Canon 5D MkII as it simply works better in my hands. BUT unless Canon can produce a prosumer camera that rivals the D800, I may be returning to Nikon. All of this, of course, is assuming the the D800 actually performs in the real world. Specs are one thing, but the final test is performance in each individual photographers hands.</p>

<p>I agree with you guys. The 5D mk3 better step it up, of Nikon WILL overtake Canon in the commercial photo world, and elsewhere. Here in Minneapolis, I'd say a large share of shooters are still Canon because of the 1Ds mk2. Shooters I work for are still using them. I've already talked to a few people that say they will consider switching if Canon doesn't match.</p>

<p>The D800 is a major game changer.</p>

<p>I think the OP's point is that when the competition (in this case Nikon) seems to be moving away from "protecting" the top-end models, that Canon (and anyone else trying to compete in this space) will have a harder time maintaining much higher pricing on similar models unless they have other ways to differentiate their products.</p>

<p>In the end, this is part of the ongoing forward motion in the development of digital camera technologies and the process of bringing the prices of these technologies to lower levels. The competition is good for buyers and users of all camera brands.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Sure looks like we are going to benefit from the competition once again.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, Canon's pricing will have to be competitive. Nikon's achievements can only be good news for those of us who still shoot primarily Canon.</p>

<p>I am not worried about the number of megapixels the next Canon will have. I am sure that there will be plenty. (After all, 21 MP is plenty.) I would like to see some other improvements, including better weather-sealing and a more reliable auto-focus. I have been missing some shots lately due to auto-focus on the 5D II, and I really don't know what I could have done differently. (Well, okay, I could have shot in better light, but I like shooting near dusk or later.)</p>

<p>Canon once ran away with the full-frame market before the D3 and the D700. I would like to see Canon hit a home run with whatever is coming.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>I seems to me that whatever the designers have already built into the 5D M3 will be what we see. At this point in the development process, I would be surprised if Canon had much wiggle room to change the M3 without pushing the M3 delivery data to the right by a significant amount.</p>

 

<p>It seems like anytime somebody puts a new camera out everybody drops their pants and pulls out a ruler to see how what they have measures up. <br>

Before it was they have better ISO but we have more MP. Now its they have more MP etc etc ad nauseum. <br>

It gets old hearing the same old complaints. The pendulum will never stop swinging and the farther you are to one side the farther away it gets. Until it swings back your way again and you get to sit at the top of the pile.<br>

Either way, I like it when new cameras come out because it makes that 'Next Best Thing' from 5 years ago that much more accessible to me.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Canon has a history of protecting the sales of their pro-models.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Perhaps, but Canon also has a way of waiting until Nikon has released a super new camera, and then shortly thereafter introducing something even more spectacular.</p>

<p>Let's hope it happens again, this is one of the best parts of competition under conditions of capitalist production. Let us also hope that the camera market never becomes a monopoly capitalist environment.</p>

<p>If the mk3 is consistent w/ the D800, it'll be in the perfect 'spot' to be <em>both</em> a significant upgrade from the 5D2, and dovetail nicely w/ Canon's refinement of the 1D line. I don't think there's any doubt (in my mind at least) that a 5D3 will be a Canon version of the D800, and have a similar feature set. The most interesting thing to me about the D800 is the aspect ratio of the 5:4 sensor, I'm hoping that Canon will follow suit (though admittedly unlikely). Additionally, the Nikon has the D800E announced, which (apparently) will be able to produce much finer detail in studio and static shooting. (though at a cost to high iso work) Also an innovation Canon could adopt in an effort to pursue MF markets.</p>

<p>I truly doubt that even a 50->70% increase in MP, plus most of the other things I can think of as likely, will be a truly <em>compelling</em> reason to upgrade. OTOH, there are still features they <em>could</em> install (ECF, improved aspect ratio, etc.) which would make me buy it as soon as it's available.</p>

<p>Personally I'd love to have a 5D3 with the same sensor as the 1DX and with improved AF and better weather sealing.</p>

<p>36 megapixels is impressive and I'm sure it will sell cameras, but I just don't need that much detail. I've been getting on fine with 12.7 in the 5D mk 1. Modern hard disks are spacious, but at 36 mp... the raws must be colossal... and how long's it gonna take to load up an 800-picture shoot in Lightroom...</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see what the year brings. Maybe we'll all be happy before the Mayans pull the plug.</p>

<p>From a personal viewpoint, I don't care. I'm not going to buy the D800 and I'm not going to buy the 5D MkIII either.</p>

<p>I don't shoot video much, so I really don't care what video friendly features either one of them has.</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see what a jump from 21MP to 36MP actually gets you from both mid-range and high end lenses and for those who shoot video, it's meaningless anyway.</p>

<p>As for jumping ship from Canon to Nikon, (a) it's a very expensive move for anyone who has invested in a camera system and (b) if and when Canon top Nikon in some way, do you jump back again?</p>

<p>There's really nothing that could put in a 5D MkIII (or a 7D MkII) which would actually improve my photography or enable me to do something that I want to do but can't do now.</p>

<p>To be honest I'm much more interested in seeing what Canon bring out in the way of a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera then how many new goodies they manage to squeeze into a 5D MkIII. My existing DSLRs are already better than I am!</p>

<p>I don't understand all the fuzz about the D800. Of course it is a magnificent body, no doubt about that but I don't think it will have come as a surprise to Canon. I would be surprised if they have not anticipated the D800's specs and they will no doubt come with something that is at least equal. Better in some ways, a bit less in others - just like it was with the D700 vs. 5D-II comparison. Let's see what they come up with.<br>

Development of the EVIL cameras is more interesting, as Bob mentioned. A full frame EVIL camera, with adapter to use EF lenses. That would be something new. However new, now I come to think of it, isn't there a small German company selling these alreacy?</p>

<p>The real problem is that Nikon and Canon didn’t opt for a new, common lens mount when they entered the autofocus era. </p>

<p>Just think how much happier everybody would be if we could mix and match bodies and lenses of both systems. Let alone the millions of silly discussions about the pros and cons of either brand this would save us.</p>

<p>Micro 4/3 was a smart move. Now we only need to get the dinosaurs of the industry to move ;)</p>

<p>Yes, indeed it is a pity that Nikon and Canon aren't in business to make us all happy and save us all money rather than to maximize their own profits.</p>

<p>BTW I suspect the 5D MkIII is already built and has finished its development cycle. Whatever it is, it is and the D800 won't change that. There are very reliable reports of what certainly appears to be the 5D MkIII having been seen in the field in the hands of beta testers.</p>

<p>BTW I can already put my EOS lenses on my micro 4/3 Olympus Pen. I just can't change the aperture or use autofocus. Nobody I know of has yet made an electrical adapter, just a mechanical adapter, but an electronic adapter is certainly not impossible. People have made devices and adapters that can control the electronics of EF lenses.</p>

<p>BTW CP+, the big photo trade show of Japan, starts today and runs through the 12th. Who knows what will be revealed there...</p>

I'am a mp geek, and I hope that the new 5D will have a lot more than 21mp. But, 36 mp is pretty much at the theoretical

limits of lenses and 35mm format. Anything above 28mp would be OK with me.

 

But, mp's were not the things that really defined the 5D II. ISO and video were.

 

So many things could be better, but I would also like more mp's LOL.

<p>36MP is nowhere near the theoretical limit for 35mm lenses. It's perfectly possible to make a lens that's diffraction limited at f4 and such a lens is capable of a resolution of 400 lp/mm at the sensor. To resolve that you'd need something like a 500MP sensor.</p>

<p>Of course that's the best you could expect, in the center of the frame only.</p>

<p>36MP may well be good enough to get all the detail out of most lenses, especially at the edges and corners of the frame. Maybe even in the center of the frame for a lot of lenses. It should allow resolution of around 100 lp/mm. Resolving 100 lp/mm in the center of the frame isn't particularly difficult for a good lens operating at its best aperture, though few will get near that at the edges and corners.</p>

<p>This is theory of course. In practice 36MP would be more than enough. In fact 24MP is probably more than 99% of photographers will ever actually need or be able to make use of.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>“Yes, indeed it is a pity that Nikon and Canon aren't in business to make us all happy and save us all money rather than to maximize their own profits.”</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not necessarily…<br>

I for one would certainly spend <strong>more</strong> if Nikon lenses were compatible with Canon bodies and vice versa.</p>

<p>There are already grumblings in the Nikon camp about high ISO images with the D800. Also the need for top end Nikkors which Nikon hasn't been on the ball as much as Canon.</p>

<p>While the D800 spec list is impressive. It is nothing revolutionary. Here's what revolutionary.</p>

<p>2005. Canon came out with a compact full frame EOS dslr. It was a time when no one knew what to think of it. Nikon itself said FF in a dslr is niche and that DX is the way to go. Guess what, everybody loved the 5D's images. It sold like crazy.<br /> 2008. After seeing the sales success of the EOS 5D and hearing the cries of many Nikon owners, Nikon popped out the 12MP D700 and relish its success to able to deliver a compact FF benchmarked against a near 4-yr old EOS 5D.<br /> Months later, Canon showed up with the 5d2 that not only boasts a large 21MP sensor it also takes HD videos. Guess what? It took the indie movie making world by storm. It left Nikon WTF-ing at its own D700. HDSLR segment is hot and its growing. People are buying the 5d2/7D just for movie making. Support systems grew around these Canon cameras. Nikon is nowhere to be found.<br /> 2012... 4 years later Nikon finally came out with a FF compact camera that can shoot HD videos too with even more MP. Two base features that the 4-year old 5d2 already had. Based on past history, it is Canon that's doing the game changing. Nikon's merely trying to emulate and keep up.</p>

<p>While 36mp is nice to have, in reality it's not that great a leap. My 21mp 1DS3 has a base resolution of about 16x20. I typically don't print beyond that (although a tiny bit of up-sizing will give me nice 24x30's). That said, if I recall correctly the "rules" of resolution are that in order to make your prints double in length/height you need FOUR times the megapixels. Thus going from 21mp in the Canon world you would need over 80 mp to make comparable larger prints. More megapixels isn't going to make me start printing larger and my customers aren't going to purchase wall-sized prints. Granted more mp allows for room to crop but I try to frame correctly in the first place. The law of diminishing returns is very near. Just compare photography to the computer world. Just like faster computers, once a certain performance level is attained each newer generation (while nice) doesn't seem that amazing. </p>

<p>The jump from 24 to 36MP is the same in resolution terms as the jump from 12MP to 18MP or 6MP to 9MP - as long as the lens is capable of providing detail at the resolution demanded by 36MP.</p>

<p>In theory, 21MP to 36MP gives you a maximum of about a 30% increase in linear resolution. In practice it may be more like 20%. So instead of 20x30, you'd be able to go to 24 x36 and retain similar image quality.</p>

<p>If all the lens can deliver is resolution equal to 24MP then a jump to 36MP gives you little. For most lenses 6MP to 9MP was fine and 12MP to 18MP was still within what they were capable of.</p>

<p>Of course it's pixel density that counts when resolution is concerned and an APS-C 18MP camera has the same pixel density as a full frame 29MP would. [ERROR - that should be 46MP, see below]</p>

<p>Remember Canon showing a 50mp sensor awhile back?<br>

Add in finer & fasterAutoFocus in low light, at least 6 fps drive capability, eye controlled focus(Rememeber the EOS3?) video with actual 90fps usable for slo-mo capabilies, built in intervalometer, a brighter pentaprism equal to or better than the old film cameras - and I think you have a winner.<br>

We "need" as much quality as it is possible to make. The 1 series body is a photojournalists delight. Make this one for those looking for the ultimate in image quality while sacrificing some of the speed.<br>

If the D800 performs per the spec sheet it will be a winner. Canon can only hope to beat it as anything that falls short will only highlight them being behind Nikon - a big turnaround from the past years when Nikon was almost 5 years behind in coming out with big/fast AFglass(the reason you suddenly saw white lenses on every sports sideline) and in full frame bodies.<br>

Now that the two are back going head to head we can only benefit.<br>

I really want to see the new Fuji 'mini-M9' tho. If it performs as it says... O'Boy!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>To be honest I'm much more interested in seeing what Canon bring out in the way of a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera then how many new goodies they manage to squeeze into a 5D MkIII.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I've been quietly expecting Canon to turn the mirrorless world upside much the way they did the SLR world with the introduction of the EOS line. I'm not sure what that means or what it would take, but I continue to hope.</p>