Canon 5D MK I and II Sensor Cleaning Problems... Please Help ! :)

<p>I have the Canon 5D Mark I and Mark II, and have read just about everything in here and on the web about Sensor cleaning, yet am having a horrible time with keeping my sensor clean enough to not have welded on spots that are visible when I shoot with the aperture stopped up to increase depth of field. I often shoot at 16 or higher. I shoot full time, and run my own photography business in the Seattle area.<br>

I have tried eclipse fluid and sensor swabs, but that actually makes the problem worse, as noticeable residue streaking is left behind that is also just as noticeable.<br>

I have tried the Dust Aid system, which works well for loose dust particles, but it has no effect on the welded on "dark circles" that appear on the sensor. I also have a rocket blower which can work for the loose particles too, but doesn't help with the welded on dark spots either. <br>

I'm assuming that these are micro water spots that adhere to the sensor and accumulate from moisture in the air?, but I'm not sure. I live in Seattle, and it is often pretty humid here, especially in the winter months.<br>

I am extremely careful about how I handle and store my cameras and lenses, and only keep them in closed a camera bag when not in use, and I only change lenses when it is necessary. When changing lenses, I always point the camera downwards, to minimize dust going into the sensor, and I make the lens change as fast as possible. The camera body is NEVER left without either a lens or a body cap on it.<br>

I have also tried the speckgrabber system, and that doesn't seem to do much either.<br>

Yesterday I took my 1 month old 5D Mark II into a very reputable camera store to have the sensor cleaned, since my attempt to clean several welded on spots with Eclipse fluid and sensor swabs only made it worse, didn't remove the spots, and created nasty streaks of residue on the sensor. They usually do a great job, and I can often go 6 months to a year before a I need another cleaning. Yesterday after driving 20 miles, and 60.00 later they cleaned the sensor extremely well, except for when I got it home, put on a lens and tried out a test shot, there was already one welded on spot in the center ! My guess is they missed it, but it may have naturally gone onto the sensor. The body cap was on the whole time from when they cleaned it too.<br>

I would like to be able to clean my own sensors well enough to get these welded on spots removed, but so far have been unable to find out how to do it effectively, since the eclipse fluid method does not work, and I would highly recommend that you DO NOT use it on your sensors.... <br>

I would like to know if anyone here has experienced similar problems, and how you have overcome them without having to pay a technician 60 dollars each and everytime you want to remove these welded on sensor spots. <br>

Does anyone clean their sensors effectively on their own, and if so, what are you using, and how do you do it? <br>

Any help or info would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>I had some issues with my camera and it took about 3 cleanings with the eclipse fluid and swabs to get rid of them. If you have the ring issue, I wonder if you are getting mirror oil flying around in there--apparently an issue with some 1dsmkIII's. The rocket blower can also create issues if not kept securely in a baggy to keep the dust out--ends up ballistically putting dust onto the sensor!</p>

<p>Anyway, I fixed my seemingly welded on spots by cleaning, blowing and cleaning 3 times before they were gone--takes some patience.</p>

<p>Thanks John, I find that the eclipse fluid leaves a residue on the sensor that is as bad or worse than the actual spots.... I only use one drop..... I also keep my rocket blower in a sealed bag as well.... </p>

<p>Maybe use some more than one drop? I put about 3 or 4 or so, so that the entire thing wet--no dry spots. I don't get any residue, so it does make me wonder if you aren't getting mirror oil in there--which might not wipe up very well! I tested mine thoroughly after cleaning and saw no indication of residue or streaking of any kind.</p>

<p>I was told by the tech that cleans the sensors here in Seattle that eclipse fluid is the worst thing you can put on your sensor, because it leaves a residue on the sensor. I don't know why you're not having that same problem.... I highly doubt it is oil, as the 5D MK I and II had not had that issue before, and since mine is only a month old I'm sure if there was an issue with that it would have been cleared up by now....</p>

<p>I'd suggest finding out what system the techs you like use and get some of that!</p>

<p>Some parts of your experience mirror mine, while other are diametrically opposed.</p>

<p>I've had my 5D2 for a year and I have yet to need to clean the sensor glass. I do shoot at f/16 and it isn't unusual to see a small spot or two if I look closely at the image - but most of the spots disappear after a few on/off cycles and those that remain longer are easy to deal with in post. (It crossed my mind to wonder if your built-in dust reduction "shaker" system is working correctly.)</p>

<p>Before I owned the 5D2 I owned (and still own) a 5D. The dust issue was much more of a concern with the 5D, and I went through quite a learning curve figuring out the most effective way to deal with it. I began with the Eclipse Fluid and PecPad system and discovered several things:</p>

<ul>

<li>It can effectively remove some of the "sticky" materials and also deal with "smears" on the glass.</li>

<li>It often takes more than one cleaning to get it right.</li>

<li>It is very easy to create smears on the sensor glass when using this method. You are not the only person to have to deal with this. </li>

<li>For most typical cleaning the liquid system is overkill. A brush and blower should do the trick 9 times out of 10. I keep the liquid system on hand but reserve it for rare occasions when something is stuck on the glass.</li>

</ul>

<p>Assuming that your "dust shaker" system is engaged and working correctly, it sounds to me like you may need to send your camera out for a better initial cleaning - better to do that than to damage the glass or other camera internals by overdoing it. Once you get it cleaned correctly - and it might even take a trip to Canon - you should be able to keep it clean with a brush.</p>

<p>You also need to verify that the "welded spot" is actually that and not a nick or scratch on the sensor glass.</p>

<p>Good luck,</p>

<p>Dan</p>

<p>I've read about oil from the mirror being a possible cause of sensor issues 5D Mark II. Given your lack of problems with your other cameras, and especially your story about having it cleaned, making a test shot, and seeing a spot or ring on the sensor immediately after the test shot, I'd guess that's your problem.</p>

<p>To Brian: Actually, my 5D Mark I has the same exact issues.... I'm only mentioning the Mark II because I'm using it primarily now, with the Mark I as a backup.... Most people who shoot stopped down will never notice these spots at all, but since I often shoot stopped higher to achieve greater depth of field, it is a major problem for me. <br>

To Dan, I'm 100 percent sure it is not a nick or scratch, since it wasn't there before the sensor clean, and I know the tech wouldn't have damaged it, they are ridiculously careful and I trust them without question. <br>

To Geoff: I wish they would tell me how they do it, but like Kentucky Fried Chicken, they're keeping the recipe a secret... I know they're using a microscope to view the sensor, but that's all I can tell....<br>

I wish someone out there knew how to effectively clean these smudges or spots off of the sensor without leaving even more problems with a residue. The PEC pads and Eclipse fluid just doesn't work for me without leaving the residue. I tried going to just one drop on the edge of the pad before I made 1 or 2 passes over the sensor, but the residue smears are still there.... Definitely a frustrating situation, as a 30 minute drive and 60.00 per professional cleaning is a real drain on time and money.</p>

<p>Bill, you may want to try the Visible Dust pads and cleaning fluids. In my experience they don't leave streaking, although they sometimes do leave loose dust particles that can be picked up with a dry sensor brush. My experience with the Visible Dust products isn't entirely positive, but after a few tries and repeated cleanings they did get the sensor clean.</p>

<p>It always makes me wonder when I hear things like what you have said here, so I took the camera out and shot off quite a few test shots at f16 and 22. (When I got the eclipse, I was concerned about whether there would be any residue or streaking and test pretty thoroughly when I cleaned the sensor) I then looked at the files, 100%, (1dsmkIII) and then pushed up the curves to dig out any possible issues--none! No residue or other issues, except for the few dust spots I would expect anyway, since I haven't cleaned the sensor for a few months now. (By the way, I am really picky about this stuff and know how to find issues if they are there.)</p>

<p>Anyway, it makes me wonder if you have the right Eclipse fluid if you are ending up with residue--I assume you are getting streaks?</p>

<p>But as I picked up the camera, I did have something I use, not a lens, to make images with on the camera. Akin to the pinhole, you actually shoot through a lith negative instead of a clear hole. Now, the f-stop with that is around f90 or so-- I always end up with spots, in the same exact places and yet they are not visible on shots done with any lens at any aperture. Since the device is so small and I don't have a microscope, I can't see if this device has flaws in its making--on the film--that is registering on the sensor. These marks stay in the same position, regardless of cleaning the camera's sensor or not. Anyway, don't know that it relates to your issue, but if it does....</p>

<p>edit: As I said earlier, it took 3 swabs to finally get off the marks I had on the sensor--like yours, they seemed to be stuck there. After using the swabs, I did notice some "fibers" that were in my tests. I use a very fine retouching brush to remove dust and used it to remove these--forgot that they were generally there after I used the swabs. Again, not sure if that is what you saw, but if so, maybe this helps?!</p>

<p>Eclipse Sensor fluid works great on my 5D - very often it is the only remedy against dust. It does take me multiple cleaning cycles though to get it really clean. For every cycle I use a new swab - that's critical, otherwise you just smear the old dirt back on the sensor. I also use the Sensor Pen for dust that it not yet caked onto the sensor. And for casual cleaning I use a rocket blower.</p>

<p>I know it can get frustrating to clean those sensors, but with patience it can easily be done. I shoot landscapes and always have to stop down to at least f/11 and often to f16, so dust is a real issue with me as well.</p>

<p><strong>Thanks John, I am using the Eclipse fluid, that is supposed to be used with the sensor swabs in the Eclipse fluid cleaning system.... It says on the bottle that it contains Methanol. It has a red cap, and looks like this: <a href="http://www.photosol.com/eclipseproduct.htm">http://www.photosol.com/eclipseproduct.htm</a> I know of no other Eclipse fluid, so I'm 99.999% sure that it is the right stuff that they say to use, but maybe I'm using it incorrectly? I simply take a new sensor swab out of the packaging, put a drop of Eclipse fluid on the end of the swab, and lightly yet fairly firmly sweep the swab back and forth a few times across the sensor.... Is it advisable to use a 2nd clean swab to immediately soak up any remaining residue? They tout how it has very low residue, so maybe the 1 drop I'm using is too much, or maybe I should let it dry for a few seconds on the pad before swabbing the sensor? I know the camera place that cleans the sensors makes a ton of money cleaning sensors, and why they don't recommend using Eclipse because it cuts into their business, but they have people driving across the state to get their sensors cleaned there, so they must be doing something right....</strong><br>

<strong>It just seems strange to me that I'm having issues with residue, and others aren't.... </strong></p>

<p>I've had a 5D for two years and I have the same problems. Dry cleaning is easy , gets rid of dust spots but doesn't remove the grey circles of more adhesive marks. A brush and blower never gets the sensor clean for me, it just gets the easy stuff off. Wet cleaning with Photosol's E2 and swabs seems to make things worse not better. Probably the best of the methods I've used is the Dust-Aid pads but we're talking degrees of failure not success here. Everything I've thought of buying has as many people saying its useless as those swearing its great.<br>

The only solution that works for me is to return the camera to Canon probably twice a year- and get them to do it. Meantime I get cloning. Whether the problems I have are method based, substance based or photographer based is hard to say, but it just should not be as difficult as it is. Its like going back a generation or so to when cars needed servicing every few months. If anyone made something like that now they wouldn't sell one. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your comments...<br>

Looks like I'm stuck going to the camera store and paying my 60.00 every few months, and cloning out spots when they are visible.... I just wish someone could come up with a better way to clean these sensors! Whoever does will certainly become a multi millionaire!</p>

 

<p>Bill, you most certainly should not be stuck paying $60 to clean the sensor every few months, unless you are doing something very unusual to create this issue.</p>

<p>Can you post a sample of the problem?</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Dan</p>

<p>Bill, I think it is your procedure. When I asked about this from my source for the last 20 years, they said to strictly follow the directions, which is to put a few drops--not soak, but insure wetness and then swab with one side in one direction and turn over swab and pull in opposite direction--then DISCARD! Don't use either side for more than one pull! Anyway, I was told there were problems if you didn't follow these procedures and they guy that told me about it is a bit of an expert. So, using three tries, it was with three different swabs--not with the same one.</p>

<p>The directions on the bottle say several drops and one pull on each side each in a different direction. That may be the problem!</p>

<p>Why are spots "welding" themsleves to the sensor?</p>

<p>I have a 5D and have no trouble cleaning the sensor. The dust spots, hairs and fibers are generally quite easy to remove. I do not use any cleaning fluid. I use a brush and a magnifying viewer. I describe the technique here - <a href="http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/emergency_sensor_cleaning.html">http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/emergency_sensor_cleaning.html</a></p>

<p>This is now my default cleaning method. I've used the swap and fluid method in the past, but it can leave residue behind and require multiple applications. Unless it's absolutely necessary I no longer use any fluid and I try to avoid physical contact with the sensor as much as possible.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>I simply take a new sensor swab out of the packaging, put a drop of Eclipse fluid on the end of the swab, and lightly yet fairly firmly sweep the swab back and forth a few times across the sensor</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>No!</strong> Replace the swab after <em>only one</em> swipe. Using a swab for multiple swipes only makes things worse in my experience. Also when you remove a swab from it's packaging dont let it touch anything but the sensor to insure it stays as clean as posslbe. Definitely don't let it touch your skin which is covered in oil.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>It says on the bottle that it contains Methanol. </strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>It is probably pure Methanol. If it is pure it won't leave any residue. Any pure alcohol will not leave a residue. It is possible that you have a contaminate fluid although I believe that is unlikely. However it wouldn't cost you much to try a different brand of fluid. A new bottle would definitely cost less than a trip to the store to get it cleaned.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>Is it advisable to use a 2nd clean swab to immediately soak up any remaining residue? </strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>You should not need to do that. Methanol with evaporate very quickly and leaves nothing behind if it is pure.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'm assuming that these are micro water spots that adhere to the sensor and accumulate from moisture in the air?, but I'm not sure. I live in Seattle, and it is often pretty humid here, especially in the winter months.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />I doubt it is the humidity doing it I spent half my life in Seattle and the humidity levels there are not that different form where I live now. If kept inside any water on the sensor will evaporate in a few hours at most. However some dust particles do have oils on them and some will also have a static charge. Those can be very stiky.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>They tout how it has very low residue, so maybe the 1 drop I'm using is too much</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I use visible dust fluid and swabs and one drop is all I use. I have not had any problems with my visible dust fluid. I have also found visible dust brushes to be very effective. In all likelyhood a sensor brush, swabs, and pure fluid are all your stor is using to clean the sensor.</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for your input, it has all been great, and I will definitely keep it all in mind next time I need to do a cleaning... Bob, your article was excellent as well, and I will look into getting a loupe, light and a brush and give it a try...!<br>

Dan, I've attached a full size crop of the center of a photo of a blue sky taken today to show you the spot that is smack dab in the center of my sensor, and while it is definitely not absolutely horrible it is still a bummer after paying to have it cleaned... they did a great job except for that one spot... I definitely would like to find a better alternative for future spots if at all possible to shelling out 60 bucks and driving 40 miles round trip for something I could do myself.<br>

Thanks again everyone, and if you hear of any new info on the subject, please let me know... Bill</p><div></div>

<p>Bill, I'm assuming that this is a 100% magnification crop of the small section containing the spot.</p>

<p>Let me muse on that spot a bit. I suppose that if I had a spot like this one that is visible at small apertures when it aligns with an area in the frame with little detail that I would perhaps eventually want to clean it. On the other hand:</p>

<ul>

<li>You could remove this in about 5 seconds in post. I like to use the spot removal tool in ACR as I do my RAW conversion.</li>

<li>It won't be visible in most photographs that have any detail in this area.</li>

<li>Even when you get a perfectly clean sensor, you'll soon get more dust spots - this is just the way it is with DSLR sensors. With that in mind, I'd recommend that you don't worry too much about this - just clean it up in post if it is visible.</li>

</ul>

<p>In general, I think it is better to not worry about a few spots on the sensor as long as they are small and not too numerous. There is no way around the fact that you will get dust spots. Given that reality, trying to get and maintain a perfectly clean sensor is a quick way to make yourself crazy!</p>

<p>Just for fun I opened your image in Photoshop and timed myself doing the necessary step to delete the dot. It took 6 seconds. It is even easier when you know exactly where the spot is, as you do in this case.</p>

<p>Take care,</p>

<p>Dan</p>

<p>Any of you heard of similar issues with D700 or higher Nikons, or Sony A900? </p>

<p>I'd like to take that kind of step in the next Quarter, targeting 5DII.</p>

<p>Mere Pentax K20D (APS/14.6) is easy to clean with one shot, Rocket-only when shaker doesn't do the job,... I deal with a lot of dust and pollen (desert, cottonwood, sage, wind etc) but the area's either dry or "normal" (not like Seattle or New Orleans).</p>

<p>I had similar problems, and found it was in the procedure indeed. It should be wet enough, and done fast like described. Even then i use 2 or 3 swabs to clean it well. Also i found its more difficult when the camera is kind of warm. Anyway I kind of dislike the job for the somewhat unpredicatable results (all gone well but still some dots or faint of residu...) I have it mostly cleaned now when canon has a demonstration of new cams here around, as long as they produce new models :-). They clean sensors for free than.. I do not feel guilty about that, just bought a 7d for my partner so they are successfull (haha).</p>

<p>Dan. </p>

<p> I suspect that compared to most of you guys I'm a fairly light digital camera user- maybe 6000 shots a year make it through my cull in Lightroom. If I have to end up cleaning even a quarter of these then your 5 seconds works out to have cost me a couple of hours of dull repetitive work, which is per spot and maybe sometimes I have ten. So from where I sit its worthwhile trying to start out a trip with a clean camera, and a pity that I can't manage to find a way of doing that. I don't know how many hours I spend in a year dust-busting photographs in Photoshop ( can't seem to get a get a grip on the Lightroom tool) but its a few and whilst I accept that its going to get dirty again I also have to say that I'm kind of resenting Canon for a good proportion of the time I'm doing it, and for the anxiety and frustration I feel during the cleaning process in case I'm actually making it worse. </p>

<p>I'm interested to see the comments here about the fact that some individual cameras seem to attract this "welded on" stuff and others don't, as well as the odd remark about oil from the mirror mechanism and so on. Do you all reckon its possible that a small problem or idiosyncracy somewhere else in the camera might be causing dust to adhere more with some cameras? </p>

<p>Meantime I shall give Bob's method a try.</p>

<p>Well, David, if 6000 make it through the cull, that is a lot!</p>

<p>But I don't get the fuss over spotting actually. In darkroom work, it wasn't unusual to spend a 1/2 to 1 hour spotting a final print. When I scan negs, mostly about 200mb (8bit equiv), I will spend at least an hour on most images spotting them--(I won't use push button dust removal because it messes with grain structure at the least and many times will suck the life out of areas with small specular highlights). With digital, where I have large untextured areas, I will probably spend at least 10-15 minutes looking for spots, using various curves to dig them out, and getting rid of them.</p>

<p>I don't know where the idea that photography was supposed to be easy comes from and dust has always been a time consuming and bothersome issue--and when it got between the mounting tissue and the print, it could be fatal!</p>