Can anyone offer suggestions on in camera settings and sharpening w/ 1d MK IIn please

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by f1-fanatic, Mar 4, 2006.

  1. Hi everyone,

    After shooting with a 10D for the past 2 years I have decided to make
    the jump and buy a camera that I feel would be better suited for
    shooting sporting events. Problem is I have become proficient with a
    digital workflow based on my 10D and now need to re-evaluate how I am
    going to approach the RAW files from the new camera. Therefore, I
    was hoping someone could offer up a little bit of help with what
    works best with the in-camera settings such as sharpening and all of
    the stuff that I have previously turned off in the 10D and adjusted
    in Photoshop. Also could someone please give me a starting point for
    settings for this camera in "unsharp mask"?

    New Canon 1d Mk IIn coming in mail today... Can't wait to start
    using it!

    Thanks again, any help would be greatly appreciated.


    -Norman
     
  2. "..how I am going to approach the RAW files from the new camera..." "..what works best with the in-camera settings such as sharpening and all of the stuff ..."<p>What am I missing here? Those "settings" don't apply to the RAW files.
     
  3. None of those in-camera settings have any effect on your RAW files.
     
  4. Also could someone please give me a starting point for settings for this camera in "unsharp mask"
    It's kind of a matter of taste, but FWIW, my default with a 1DII (non-N) is threshold 0, radius 0.4, amount 300%. Any or all of these may need adjustment for particular images. Also, the 'N' may have some different processing of RAW files than the older model, so you'll need to experiment. If you use some kind of noise reduction (Noise Ninja, etc.), you may prefer different USM settings.
     
  5. having used this camera will the 1dk2 for over year, I would suggest you give it a good
    test, though I found that for skin tones in the studio Jpeg seems to be better thn RAW files
    using portrait colour setting. As for other settings, if you are processing the images in
    Photo Shop
    set to level 2 sharpness and maximum jpeg quality. This allows you enough room to
    sharpen them other taking the images.You can covert these to tiffs in the canon software
    if you so desire.

    Shooting RAW files which I do a fair bit for clients seems to be better with the EX flash
    guns than jpegs I am a firm believier that shooting in digital should be like using good old
    slide film, get it right first in the camera. covert in PS to 300dpi and your away! good luck
    with the camera.

    Phil

    colour balnce for skin tones I always set to 5200K AWB only with the speedlights on top!
     
  6. Something must have changed with CS2 because I also thought that in-camera settings
    had no effect on RAW images in Camera Raw, but they apparently do now. Coincidentally, I
    was doing the exact same test this afternoon with about 100 images shot with different
    in-camera sharpening settings comparing the same shots with no in-camera processing
    and putting them through Adobe Camera Raw. I also compared all shots by processing
    them through Canon's Digital Photo Processor program (which does apply in-camera
    settings to RAW files) and they were identical.

    My test kept all camera and exposure settings equal with the exception of in-camera
    sharpening. The images straight from the camera without any in-camera sharpening had
    the typical Canon slightly soft look. Taking the same shot with Sharpening +2 and
    processing through ACR opened the same image but it was as sharp as in Canon's DPP
    software (they were actually incredible looking - no halos, or other sharpening artefacts)
    Conclusion: ACR does apply in-camera sharpening settings to RAW files. The only
    downside is you'd have to give up Adobe RGB as a color space since in-camera settings
    only work for the sRGB color space.

    Given that this conclusion goes against my past experience with in-camera settings and
    ACR, I'll retest through ACR and DPP and report back
     
  7. Okay, went to the garage and did a more controlled test... results confirm my first post that in-camera sharpening is applied by ACR. conditions of my test: 10D with 28-70 f/2.8L, tripod mounted, EXIF: 1/25 sec., f/2.8, ISO 200, 70mm focal length. Shot a standard back-focus test chart at about 24" I'm posting a screenshot of the two images side-by-side in CS2. note that files are the same size and haven't been resampled. CRW_7711.CRW was shot as an Adobe RGB (no in- camera sharpening by definition) CRW_7713.CRW was shot with sharpening set to +2.
    00FWAY-28595584.jpg
     
  8. Brian, were these tests done with all the "Auto" checkboxes unchecked in ACR?
     
  9. Yes, all Auto boxes were unchecked and all "detail" settings were set to zero.
     
  10. Also forgot to mention that I used the on-camera 10 sec. timer to take the shots since I don't
    have a remote.
     
  11. So, just to be clear, the two images you show in your attached image were opened with ACR and not DPP, right? Not trying to be a jerk I just notice that DPP is showing in the background.
     
  12. yes, they were both opened in ACR. I had DPP open also to look at the images because I know
    it uses in-camera parameters when rendering RAW images. When I tried it with CS1 a year
    ago, I only used color saturation as the changed parameter and ACR 1 didn't seem to keep
    the changes to the RAW files while EOS's FVU did keep the parameter in rendering it's RAW
    image. Try it out and let us know if you get the same results with the sharpening...
     
  13. Attached are the three images I took - CRW7711 at 0 sharpening, CRW7712 at 1 sharpening, and CRW7713 at 2 sharpening. Based on the picture it looks like ACR only recognizes that some sharpening was applied in-camera, since sharpening 1 and sharpening 2 look identical out of ACR. Oh yeah, it just came to me - the reason I had DPP open in the previous image was to verify which image had which amount of in-camera sharpening applied since ACR doesn't give you that information.
    00FWOg-28603084.jpg
     
  14. Personally Canon's software (DPP) is not something to be used unless you need to discover your focus points -- beyond that I see no need for it. PS CS2 has everything you need.

    Sharpening is nearly always a step you do just before the final "print" output -- whether to a computer screen or before sending the image to be printed. The Parameters for sharpening (the two best tools being Unsharp Mask and Smart Sharpen -- and then thru layers and blending) in CS2 vary widely depending upon subject matter, image size, and output destination. There are too many good books on this to give out a "one size fits all" set of sharpening parameters. Maintaining a decent library is a MUST for anyone even half-way serious about the quality of their images. (and so is a MUST reading the posts in the digital darkroom forum)

    If you're rather shooting JPG because the images have to go to publication immediately then be a little agressive in the in-camera sharpening setting or use the new picture styles (for JPG only) on your 1D2N.
     
  15. Thank everyone for the responses... I just received the camera late yesterday and have not even opened it to charge the battery yet but I am a little confused. Do the in camera functions apply to RAW images or not? (P.S. I don't shoot jpg files at all... Everything is RAW and I have used only PS CS to edit.)
     
  16. In camera functions apply to shooting JPG only or to DPP when it does an auto transfrm from Raw to JPG; CS2's ACR pretty much ignores the sharpness settings you use in camera.
     
  17. Okay, I have a stupid question so please excuse me for asking it. I just got the camera and have yet to even open it. What is DPP and ACR?
     
  18. Ken,

    Read my posts, see my examples and test for yourself. ACR does apply in-camera sharpness
    settings to RAW files.
     
  19. ACR is the program inside of Photoshop - Adobe Camera Raw. DPP is Canon's own RAW
    processing software available from their website called Digital Photo Professional.
     
  20. Thank you very much for clearing this up for me. I am charging the batteries as we speak.. Can't wait to use the new camera!
     
  21. I did some more testing - this time with JPEGs that were sharpened in-camera and some that
    were Adobe RGB vs. RAW files that were Adobe RGB and some that were sharpened in-
    camera. These tests were totally inconclusive. Some of the supposedly sharpened JPEGs were
    less sharp than my unsharpened RAW shots. Leading me to believe that my focus was dead-
    on for the previous tests with RAW in-camera sharpened files and was a little soft for the
    Adobe RGB RAW files. So probably no sharpening going on with the RAW files. It must have
    been just real good focus...
     

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