Cameras other than Leica

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by glenn_travis, May 26, 2002.

  1. This is a personal opinion, and in no way reflects the opinion of anyone on this forum, or this forum itself. I feel that it is bad taste, extremely rude, and inappropriate to list or discuss cameras other than Leica, on THIS forum. A Nikon or Canon (as wonderful as they may seem to their devotees) are in no way, remotely related to Leica. I know that Nikon has a number of sites for those devoted to Nikon. I don't know that much about Canon and others, but I'm sure they do too. So, for instance, if someone asks what your favorite lens is, and it isn't a Leica, then consider that this question is not for you. If you look closely, you will see that only paparazzi (poopy) use those types of cameras anyway, and never Leicas. I like to think of the Leica Forum as a place for Leica Photographers.
     
  2. My guess is that most members of the forum use not only Leicas or
    other cameras. I consider it quite appropriate to compare Leicas with
    others in regard to specific tasks. I use one of my Leicas about 80%
    of the time, but I also have a Canon EOS 1v, a Nikon N90s, and others.
    For me, and I believe, others as well, comparisons at times can be
    helpful. Why should this be considered impolite? If you're not
    interested, don't read it! Simple as that.
     
  3. Jack, to me, your mentality, is the same one that caused paparazzi to
    participate in the death of Princess Di, and take her picture as she
    lay dying. In the screw everyone else, I'm going to do what I want to
    do world, where courtesy, while not dead, is certainly dying, your
    answer is right on, brother.
     
  4. Good grief, Glenn. Lighten up!
     
  5. Cameras are just tools...I have three NIKKOR lens that were designed
    specifically for LEICA thread mount.....they are the 85mm, 105mm and
    135mm...they work just great on my M3 with adapters....They have NO
    fogging or weird lens coating problems like the Leica lens of the
    early 1950's...These Nikkors have never required any cleaning or
    regreasing.....They are quality lenses that do not have Leicas
    fogging or coating problems.....Why is it rude to talk about
    quality??? ......Leica screwed up their coatings and grease in the
    early 1950's; but these Nikkors are clear and contasty; still after
    50 years; and will work on a new M7 today...<br><br>Kelly
     
  6. Glenn--isn't "In the screw everyone else, I'm going to do what I want
    to do world, where courtesy, while not dead, is certainly dying, "
    almost exactly what you're doing in a backhanded way by insulting
    everyone who doesn't want to do it YOUR way in this instance?
     
  7. Meanwhile, any discussion of the erstwhile Princess Di is verboten as
    well. Achtung! Let's keep this board to Leica only as the fuhrer
    would have it.
     
  8. With Dave all the way! My, Glenn, who's being rude and impolite now? And the mere mention
    of Princess Di in your second post is in such bad taste it's freaky. I don't think even «Phil what's
    his name» would go this low. (Well, come to think of it, now that I've mentioned it...sorry,
    people.) Anyway, Glenn, just breathe deeply through your nose, feel not only your lungs but
    your stomach fill with air, let it out slowly through your mouth. Do this ten times. It'll oxygenate
    your starving brain.
     
  9. Glenn: Get out more! Lay down your fondling of the Leica equipment
    and pounding on the keyboard and get a wider perspective on things.
    Just some friendly advice.
     
  10. Kelly, I certainly don't mean to imply that LTM's: Nikon , Canon,
    Russian, Zeiss, and all other lenses or equipment that are compapable
    or at least similar (Voigtlander?) to Leica RF/ aren't a delightful
    source for discussion and education. They most certainly are. But I
    am drawing the line when someone asks what you favorite lens is and
    why, and the reply is some modern AF SLR 28-200mm f/1.4, ED, IF, APO,
    IS, L. There are certainly other groups that are interested in
    discussing this. But I certainly am interested in hearing why someone
    would choose a thirty year old Nikon LTM over a modern Leica
    equivalent.
     
  11. C'mon Glenn, don't be such a hypocrite. And I quote him from a recent post: "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. My challenge to you: is talk all you do? yak, yak, yak, yak! Maybe it more than $50, but it's well within the spirit of your challenge. VOITLANDER BESSA-L (well under $200), VOITLANDER HELIAR 15mm, 1:4.5, T-MAX 400 IN XTOL 1:1, POLAROID SPRINTSCAN 4000."

    <p>

    I don't think a Voightlander exactly qualifies as a Leica.

    <p>

    It seems that you too also talk about other cameras, so what are we to all make of this hulabaloo? Caught out? Not fun is it?
     
  12. Hey Olivier!

    <p>

    You solved my lifelong digestion problem. All of this time I thought
    that I was the only one who digested food in my lungs! If I could
    only stop urinating through my index fingers...or smelling through my
    elbows...
     
  13. I don't know about you Glenn, but I am interested in comparisons
    those with Leica experience can make with other brands and even other
    formats. It seems that is one of the benefits of this site, shared
    experienceand considered observation. What is wrong if that includes
    experiences of other makes of cameras? Most
    photographers who have ventured into Leica have made a substantial
    commitment in the purchase of equipment and have experience with
    several other camera makes; it only makes sense that this site
    includes these in comparison. Personally, I think this post is a
    troll, but if you really don't like a topic, then read something
    else. Why waste your time?
     
  14. Man I really like those Hasselblad MF cameras! Hmn...for
    scenics/landscape they gotta be tops.
     
  15. The irony of the whole situation ...... There has always been an
    eternal tug of war between photographic manufacturers to be a
    market leader. Witness the classic Leitz versus Zeiss situation
    however, behind the rivalry there is some mutual respect,
    friendship and indeed sharing of designs. Competion leads to
    better products. I would conclude that comparisons are relevant.
    Whether you want to participate in a forum comparison is up to
    you.
     
  16. Funny thread . . .!
    I like to read about Leicas here but, in general, accept things the way they are: there are some other cameras out there, we use them too ourselves and occasional reference to other brands/gear makes no harm. And is even educational sometimes . . . But still I try to be faithful to the name of the site, of course.
    I assume that getting involved in such a nonsensical discussion is a comsequence of the lack of photography
    Regards
    -Iván
     
  17. If I just wanted technical Leica information, I'd just call Leica New
    Jersey every time I needed to know something about their products. To
    me, this discussion board (and others like it), are a source of
    community along with being a photographic knowledge database. We all
    talk about Leica 90% of the time around here. But other stuff is
    bound to creep in. Like the fact that my FAVORITE lens isn't a leica.
     
  18. Since I seemed to have broken my own rule more than anyone else, I
    will conceed defeat, and retire from the battlefield. But be warned,
    I shall return! And pray tell Josh, what IS your favorite lens?
     
  19. If the question is "what one lens would you keep? and the answer
    isn't a Leica lens, what do you EXPECT people to say? Lie and name a
    Leica lens? Get a life, doofuss.
     
  20. That would be a Canon 50mm 1.4 ef lens. It takes pictures my Leica
    can't. Just like my 50mm Summilux takes ones the former can't even
    come close to. Sorry - but this thread exudes the same kind of
    drunkeness I see here from time to time that I just can't stand.

    <p>

    Can't we all just get along?
     
  21. Yah...I think some us are just reallllllllllllllllllllly bored.
    *yawn* *stretch* *lipsmacking* ZzzzZZZzz
     
  22. Okay, Henry, I didn't think I'd have to explain this, but, for the benefit of the «metaphor
    challenged» here goes: feeling your stomach fill with air IS a metaphor, used to mean that one
    should expand his abdomen as far out as possible, using his lower ribs' muscles while
    breathing in, in order to lower the diaphragm and fill the lungs all the way to the very bottom. It's
    a technique all musicians and actors use, among others. As for urinating through your index
    fingers and smelling through your elbows, my advice to you is get a good physician ASAP.
    Take care. :)
     
  23. How dare you say the words Canon and Nikon in your post - you
    hypocrite :)
    <p>
    If the leica forum is a place for leica photographers, who are the
    people that shoot both leicas and other brands... are they no longer
    leica photographers? In other words, if i play the drums in a band i
    am still a drummer even though i like to pick up the guitar from time
    to time. If somebody asks me what instrument they should use to play
    like Jimi Hendrix, i'm not going to tell them to use the drums just
    because i am a drummer... i'm also not going to not answer simply
    because it is foolish for this person to ask me - a drummer - this
    question. If i know the answer i will give it to them. If somebody
    comes along on this forum and asks what lenses are best for wildlife
    photography, i am going to point them in the direction of AF SLR's,
    because that is what is good/best for that type of stuff... anybody
    who is serious about wildlife photography and thinks a leica M is
    just as good is seriously deluding themselves.
     
  24. My favorite lens? The one in my eyeballs.
     
  25. Leica lenses have wonderful characteristics and I intend to mount one
    of them on a new Bessa R2. I think that it may suit my purposes
    better than the M6 [framing accuracy] and, perhaps, prove more
    reliable. My NIKON FM3A with the 45mm P lens is also a very fine kit
    and I don't expect to have to spend $300 or so to have it CLA'd
    anytime soon [the next ten years].
     
  26. lux

    lux

    Glenn, I believe I said my favourite lens is the Elmar 50/2.8 in my
    thread. Did you miss that? ;)
     
  27. Glenn,

    <p>

    I think the discussion of non-Leica gear in this forum may sometimes
    be appropriate if the context invites it, such as a question
    like: "What SLR/P&S cameras do Leica M users recommend?" Otherwise, I
    agree with you that gratuitous intrusions about non-Leica
    cameras/lenses is inappropriate and undesirable. I wouldn't call it
    extremely rude, though!

    <p>

    What used to irritate me no end, in the photo.net discussion forum,
    was if someone posted a question about Leica and was told that (s)he
    would be better off with a Nikon or Canon, some even suggesting a
    different format altogether, ranging from Minox 8 x 11 to LF:
    unhelpful and simply a case of someone airing his/her prejudices.
    Now, if you want to see posts in bad taste that are extremely rude,
    photo.net has much to offer. ;-)
     
  28. If it is not allowed to compare your Leica lens with that of a
    different brand, how do you now that the Leica is superior? Just
    because it has the biggest myth hanging around it?

    <p>

    I really like my Hasselblad s-planar 120mm T*. A well exposed 6x6
    slide/negative will always knock a 35mm slide of the same subject
    dead.

    <p>

    Frank
     
  29. Hmm.... Glenn has been ostracized and kicked out of every
    photography forum I've ever seen his name show up in. He get's
    fanatical, judgemental, holier-than-thou and downright nasty if
    people disagree with him or don't share his opinions. After a while
    he ticks people off to the point where they simply ignore him or put
    him down at every opportunity.

    <p>

    I was wondering how long it would take for him to show his true
    colors here.
     
  30. Taggert:

    <p>

    Excuse me but I much prefer to draw my own conclusions regarding
    people. I sincerely don't intend to be rude to you but I'm sorry I
    can't feel that your opinion on this person helps the Forum in any
    way.

    <p>

    We have had our share of personal battles here already. What to start
    it all over again for . . .?

    <p>

    I'm not the one to defend Glenn, of course. I'm just trying to avoid
    OT boring, anoying, endless threads like the ones we suffered
    recently and I trust you can consider this post in that limited
    context and not addressed against you personally in any way, right?

    <p>

    Regards

    <p>

    -Iván
     
  31. Ivan,
    Go over to rec.photo.equipment.35mm and have a look at the
    Leicaddict Poll.
     
  32. Glenn, you're misunderstanding the charter of this forum. Your
    vision, I'm afraid, would render our forum pretty dull and lifeless!
    I would say that a bunch of Leica photographers should be able to use
    and compare other types of equipment and then talk about their
    experiences. Practical, polite comparison between Leica products and
    other makers' products can be interesting with regards to the
    usability, functionality, and performance of differing products.
    Discussion of other brands is often welcome here as long as the
    majority of ones posts are about Leica and there is some link to
    Leica, or the Leica "style" of photography. The general focus should
    be the pursuit of great photography by Leica photographers.
     
  33. Thanks, John. I would but couldn't find the site. Would you mind to
    post the complete address if you are still there, please . . .

    <p>

    -Iván
     
  34. Lux - I did see that you said the one lens you would keep was the
    Elmar-M. As you may, or may not know, this lens is indeed my
    favorite, and has proved itself to me many times over for the quality
    of images it produces.
     
  35. Ivan,
    I wouldn't expect you to take me at my word... here are just a few
    quotes from rec.photo.equipment.35mm from Glenn Travis. All direct
    quotes taken from the news group and these are only in the last week
    or so. There have been much worse, I assure you.

    <p>

    "I really have no interest in you and your sick,
    filthy, perverted, pedophile mind. You're obviously hetro-phobic. You
    should be ashamed of yourself, and seek professional help"

    <p>

    "Believe me, I want some little masturbator like you to ignore me.
    You're just to sticky"

    <p>

    "Well gee whiz! I know, back in your day, when it was all technique,
    didn't have no damn e-mail to worry about. Just settled it in the
    parking lot with clubs, like real men."

    <p>

    "Tell me, are poor
    little Cappy's feelings hurtie, hurtie. Well the big badass
    Leicaddict is VERY sorry, apologizes profusely, and won't let it
    happen to poor little Cappy Wappy again. Poor little Dude Bear."
     
  36. Taggert, who are you anyway? You sem to be a newcomer who has
    contributed only two posts to this forum, both dedicated to trashing
    Glenn Travis. I don't know whether what you say is true or not, and I
    have no feelings either way, frankly, but what's the agenda here?
     
  37. Who am I? Just someone who doesn't want to see this discussion
    group go sour because of a select few individuals who push their
    views on others an belittle other people's opinions simply because
    they are not the same as their own.

    <p>

    It's starts off small, and then escalates to the kind of comments
    that I've quoted above.

    <p>

    I don't have an "agenda", other than to help keep this group a place
    where people can voice an opinion and seek advice without being made
    to feel stupid or inferior and without elevating Leica owners to
    some sort of icon status.

    <p>

    My point is that Glenn Travis can't seem to make his point without
    somehow denegrating someone else. I don't like it. I'm sure others
    don't like it. And I just want to call attention to the matter.
     
  38. The worst thing than being talked about, is not being talked about.
    At first I was puzzled, then it came to me, I have my own internet
    Groupies. Pathethic though they might be, they're still Groupies. The
    question now becomes, are Groupies required to have a Leica to post
    on the Forum? I'd say no, as long as their Idol has a Leica, but
    others may disagree. I have a Leitz M6, Elmar-M 50mm 1:2.8, B+W KR1.5
    MRC, Fuji Sensia II 200, Polaroid SprintScan 4000:

    <p>


    <IMG SRC="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?
    photo_id=780588&size=lg" WIDTH="750" HEIGHT="500">
     
  39. Nice shot, Glenn, though I could have done it better with my 35mm PC-
    Nikkor.
     
  40. I'd argue that the only thing pathetic here are the photos that you
    post on the net that have no focal point, no interest, no compelling
    reason to have been made, and yet still you feel that your skills
    and artistic insight are somehow superior because they were shot
    with Leica equipment. A technician with an over inflated ego.
     
  41. Everyone relax. Breath deeply. Take another Prozac.
     
  42. I am surprised to see more than 40 answers on a commnet/question this
    one. By the way, I like my canon EOS, canon EOS, canon EOS, canon
    EOS, canon EOS,canon EOS,... too!! :)
    Arie
     
  43. Actually Bob, doesn't it depends on exactly what it is that you think
    you'll do better? I believe that there are two type of images, one is
    a picture that attempts to depict a technically perfect
    representation of reality, and one is a photograph that attempts to
    depict how one sees reality. If what you are interested in is a
    technically perfect reality, then yes, not only is any other shooter
    better than me and probably also you, but almost any other camera,
    35mm or otherwise is better than a Leica RF. If all we're interested
    in is a technically perfect representation of reality, when why even
    shot at all? I shoot with what is fast becoming a twenty year old
    camera, with a lens that the vast majority of Leica users turn their
    nose up at. Why, because I'm not interested in a technical
    representation of reality, only in my reality and showing it as best
    I can, with all that implies, warts and all. The Leitz M6 and Elmar-M
    allow me to represent that reality in image form. When I look at the
    vast majority of images I've made with my Leitz M6 and Elmar-M, I say
    to myself, yes that's what I saw, that's what I experienced, and what
    I'm trying to depict. This particular image has to do with the street
    signs, the little critroen, the green lorry, the bassier, the time of
    day, the low angle of the light, and the way it illuminates the
    scene. I stood there for twenty minutes waiting for the damn lorry to
    pull into position. This is the reality of that scene in space and
    time as I saw it, and as my Leitz M6 and Elmar-M translated it. If
    you like it, find, if you don't, as some will, then that's find too.
    It really doesn't matter to me since I have no control over others,
    only of myself. I thinks it's very dificult for people to let go and
    not try to replicate a representation of a technically perfect
    reality as their highest goal. After all, isn't that what modern
    photography is all about? My horizontals are more horizontal than
    yours, or my verticals are more vertical than yours, or my lens can
    resolve more lines than yours, or shoot more frames per second, or
    whatever it is that you feel you can more technically provide that
    someone else (or I) can't, that will allow you to get closer to a
    more technically perfect reality. Your opinion isn't going to stop me
    from being excited at Leica Photography, or trying to get even closer
    to my own reality, in fact, I'm not even going to brake stride! Leitz
    M6, Elmar-M 50mm 1:2.8, B+W KR1.5 MRC, Fuji Sensia II 200, Polaroid
    SprintScan 4000:

    <p>

    <IMG SRC="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?
    photo_id=787699&size=lg" WIDTH="750" HEIGHT="507">
     

Share This Page