Camer advice F1 or T90

Hi All

 

And lo, there was the FD mount. I'm looking to ditch some camera gear

that doesn't get used much including an Eos 500 & a TLR amongst

others. I still want to keep on a nice SLR & fancy the Canon FD

system as the prices are great.

 

I think I'm after either the Canon (new)F-1 or a T90. What I would

appreciate is some advice on the FD range & those camera's or better

alternatives if I've missed them.

 

My requirements are, robust, varied climate friendly, PC socket, good

internal metering (spot would be nice), Dof preview would also be a

bonus. Generally a good pro, all-rounder. I'm happy with manual gear

& focussing (Workhorse camera's a Hasselblad).

 

Basically something that I can use at the top of Mont Blanc at -30,

in the deserts of Arizona or just as well in the studio running some

flash heads.

 

I'm a medium format man so I'm not up on FD kit, I only know a bit of

EOS.

 

Thanks for your help on this.

 

Gavin

Gavin,

 

I've owned and used a number of FD cameras and my current "user" is a T90 with 300TL flash. There are advantages and disadvantages that differentiate the F-1 from the T90. The main areas are weight, metering, shutter and flash.

 

By the time you put a motor drive on the F-1, the combination will be considerably heavier than the T90 with built-in drive (neither is a lightweight, though).

 

In order to get an additional metering mode/pattern on the F-1, you need the proper viewfinder (at extra $) and/or focusing screens. The T90 has center-weighted averaging, area, and spot metering - all selectable with the turn of a wheel. In addition, the area and spot metering can be locked (very easily) and the frame recomposed before shooting. Of course, the T90 give you all aperture, shutter priority, program and full manual modes. There are even selectable modes for wide, normal and tele that give different weights to shutter speed and aperture. It is the most awsome metering system I've worked with (35 years and some medium format stuff).

 

The shutter on the T90 has a reputation for being a little "finicky." That is, they are know to fail or freez up with long periods of non-use. I've had the shutter in mine rebuilt and it is working very well. There are still several people around the country that specialize in this particular repair. The F-1 has a shutter that is "older" style and very reliable.

 

Flash... this is where the T-90 shines. With TTL flash metering and the dedicated 300TL flash (multi-mode, very sophicsticated), it's hard to take a bad flash photo. Of course, any on-camera flash has its drawbacks, but most can be overcome by bouncing the flash or using a bouncer/diffuser on the flash.

 

The real selling point for either camera is the availabity and price of a wide selection of really excellent lenses in the FD mount. My favorite (the one that stays on the camera when walking/hiking) is the old 2-ring version of the 35-105 f/3.5 constant zoom. It's not a prime, but it comes really close. The rest of my kit includes a 50mm f/1.4, 28mm f/2.8 (both Canon), an old (all metal and glass) Vivitar Series 1 70-210 f/2.8- zoom (extremely sharp), and a cheap Vivitar 100mm macro just for fun.

 

I hope this helps - and have fun!

The F-1N may have an advantage at the top of Mont Blanc. The F-1N is all metal, robust and weather sealed. The T90 is multi functional and preferred by many for its ease of use, very similar to a proffesional EOS camera with speeds of 30 seconds-1/4000 and 1/250 flash sync (F-1N is 8 seconds-1/2000 and 1/90 flash sync). The T90 also has flash exposure lock, multi spot averaging and a long list of other fun things that just make creative photography and precise exposure easier or faster. With the T90 what you see is what you get, although you can use an Angle Finder for waist level work.

 

The F-1N is a system camera, you can change finders and drives, plus the optional focusing screens can be changed with no tools and are much easier to locate on the used market. It's more for hard working proffesionals, I guess that's why no program exposure mode was offered. For the most versatility either would make an excellent primary or back up camera. Niether camera will leave you wanting more and are the top of the line manual focus proffesioal cameras of the 80's and 90's. To get a realistic idea of how good either are try comparing them to Nikon's F2 or F3, an OM-4, Pentax LX or Minolta XK, those all simply pale next to the F-1N or T90. Try looking here for more info on finders, drives, metering options, screens, lenses and so on:

 

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/

 

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/photography.htm click F-A-T series SLR bodies.

For a pro camera to use under hard conditions, I woulda thought there'd be nothing to discuss.

<p>

You can get OK user F-1Ns for 300 - 350 bucks now, and as little as 200 - 250 if you're patient and you look around. Even at that price, an F-1N is probably going to be reliable for a long time. New or 'Mint' F-1Ns are generally no bargain, because there's high demand among goofy collectors. (You won't believe this, but I've heard that some of those guys put their cameras in cabinets and <i>never use them.</i>)

The original F-1 and the second style F-1 (not the F-1N) are closer in concept to your Hassy. Both have fully mechanical, horizontal, titanium foil focal plane shutter, built for hundreds of thousands of cycles. Meet all your requirements except you are limited to 12% rectangular central semispot metering area, which is clearly demarcated in the viewfinder. I find that my F-1 second style meters within a half stop of my A-1 and my Leica M6ttl, the difference being I know exactly what the metered area is with the F-1. Apoint to consider: you might want to wait a bit. The beginning of each school semester tends to drive up used camera prices temporarily, as the students in photo classes flow into the used camera market to buy gear for their classes. Canon stuff is particularly subject to these market forces.

Hi, Gavin!<P>

 

Of the two FD camera bodies that you're considering, probably the one that meets your requirements "off-the-shelf" is the New F-1. They're built like battleships, will continue to function without battery power, came standard with a PC socket, and will provide spot metering capabiltiy (with the proper focusing screen and the spot screens are rather rare and expensive).<P>

 

All that having been said, the T90 still edges out the New F-1 in my book as the best overall FD body for reasons that others have already cited (multiple metering modes, built-in motor drive, extensive exposure modes, etc.). It's still very durable (hence the nickname "The Tank"), and there are a few floating around that were modified with a PC sync port (not standard on the T90 for some reason). The main downside when compared to the New F-1 (and to reitterate what was alread said): its shutter is fussy with non-use, it's not as weather-sealed as the New F-1, and the camera won't function without battery power.

The F1N is more comparable to a workhorse Hassy from what I know because it is crammed with o-rings and weather seals. I would not want to use my T90 on a trip to the Amazon rainforests as my only FD camera. F-1 was and is the working PJ's choice among FD kit. That said, the T90 is surprisingly robust,takes a knock or two, as time has demonstrated( you don't really really spend your time on Mt Blanc at minus 30 a lot I hope), and illegal aliens drop from heat exhaustion in the Arizona deserts running the border (no smilacon). Meaning you will be happy with either model, and even might consider both used for much less than the cost of a new Canon EOS 1. I liked my F-1 original, but it was much too heavy with motor drive. The T90 has the most sophisticated metering system you could want in the opinion of many users. And it is a design coup for Canon. It is happily available used in tip top shape, because so many bought them and never figured out how to exploit their capabilities I do believe,thus set em aside, or moved quick to autofocus at that time juncture. Whereas the F-1's got kind of beat up in cosmetics,with a prism ding or two from what I have seen. Yet you can find F-1N (the version to get) in decent shape for a decent price. I just prefer more automation myself and yet semi robust,--like undersigned sexegenarian :-). Good shopping Gavin. Smart choice,the FD models. Don't sweat repairs either, that seems to not deter folks except the fingerbiters. (Meaning circuit boards on EOS can go out of ready inventory too...)aloha, Gerry

If you're going to Antarctica or the Amazon, get an F-1. Otherwise, get a T90. The T90 is without a doubt the most advanced manual focus camera body ever built, but with high-tech goodies come high-tech problems, like the shutter issues someone else mentioned. The F-1 is built like a tank, and has more accessories than probably any camera you'll find. Those accessories for the F-1 will easily eat up a couple of paychecks; many of them are built in to the T90. You must choose, Grasshopper, but choose wisely... (FWIW, I chose the T90 and have never looked back.)

If your interests extend to macro photography, then the Canon Auto Bellows (FD Mount) will work with either the F1 or the T90.

With the F1N you can utilize the "Speed Finder" accessory,

which I find makes composing and focussing easier, compared to

an eye level finder. The T90 does have a "angle finder" accessory, but personally I prefer the F1N's Speed Finder for this type of photography.

I Heart my T90. I heart it a lot. a) it has never made a bad exposure that wasn't caused by me b) it just feels good in your hands c) they're rugged as hell and yet quite inexpensive.

My big problem with the T90 is that you love it so much that you get very fussy as to were you take it! I certainly dont take mine up mountains or down raging rivers. I have a very old beat up F1 (1976 Olympics) that I use for this sort of thing.

First off, thanks to all of you. You've given me much to think about here All of your replies have been well detailed which was just what I was after. I can see that the Canon FD crowd are clearly a better class of photographers.

 

For those non-believers out there ;) I am often found high in the Alps snowboarding & travelling with work can take me to some pretty extreme climates to. Then there's the holidays . . . never was much of a beach bunny :)

 

For that reason the F1 sounds like the better option. Not bothered about a motor drive though, happy with manual advancing. It's what I'm used to with medium format anyway. The T90 sounds like ther perfect all-rounder I was after though with the spot metering, etc already in the camera. SO really I'm not much closer to the decision, but, at least I can now make an educated decision . . . . I know, I'll just buy both!

 

Now for the joy of cheap lens shopping!! Woo hoo!

 

Speak to you all again in the near future.

 

Gavin

 

www.urban-landscapes.co.uk

Just a last word if you are still around. I have both an F1N and a T90. I would say get both, but that is probably not an option. Given that you are happy with manual advance, you should be fine with the F1...I recommend the new F1 (N)...I think you will find it in better shape, and it has a broader range of screens. I would also highly recommend the AE finder and either a partial or full metering screen. This way you can get stuff on the fly if you are taking shots in a hurry. If you can find a spot screen, they are nice as well (and what I generally use...), but they can be a bit of a problem for AE, since they only read one tiny bit and there is no AE lock. The meters in both cameras are excellent. The F1N is a little smaller and less conspicuous than the T90, but the T90 is lighter and has better ergonmics (frankly the T90 is the most comfortable camera I have ever held. It is just PERFECTly designed). As was said, the T90 is much easier to use with flash and the 300TL is fantasic. Flash exposure lock, spot metering with the flash and so forth. It takes great flash shots. The F1 requires much more savvy to be successful with the flash. The F1 will survive being run over by a monster truck, as was said, and it will also be readily repairable for a long time since it is mechanical, but the T90 is no slouch, and it will certainly stand up to the rigors of professional use.

Lenses are of course critical. I would recommend the 50 1.2 L. A stunning lens...just stunning. The 50 1.4 is far cheaper and also outstanding. The 85 mm 1.2L is also one of the best lenses made. I find the 80-200mm F4L very versatile, but somewhat bulky. It has macro and takes very nice pictures, so it is a good buy. The 24mm f2 and 35mm f2 are also great lenses. I would recommend sticking with L glass or fast lenses and New FD, just because they are still so cheap on the used market and they are great to work with. Since it is an SLR, you will really appreciate working with glass that is f2 or faster. The 1.2 lenses are just beautiful to work with...easy to focus quickly and in low light. The disadvantage is that they make it a chore to use an F4 lens...it seems way too dark. Anyway, best of luck with FD...it is a great system to get into.

I have used a T90 for winter mountaineering in Scotland and the cold has not been a problem, although I have not used it below -12C (this is Scotland not the Alps). It does need batteries to function, but they are just 4 AAs. I find one set of batteries (Ni-Cads) lasts a whole weeks climbing (5-6 films). They also double as a spare set for my head torch!!

The only problem I have had was when I got snow inside my CCS pouch. On the descent the snow melted and I found that the T90 does not like to get wet (a repair was required).

If my AE-1 gets wet I just leave it somewhere warm to dry out and it is fine. I have also used the AE-1 down to -18C, but I do have a spare battery that I keep warm inside my clothing and swap for the cold one in the camera as required.

I have no experience with the F1, but the battery technology is the same as the AE-1, so I suspect it may give you more problems in the cold. However, if the battery fails on the F1 you just lose the meter. It can still function as a fully manual camera.

If you can keep it dry (and the Alps are more cold and dry than cold and wet) the metering on the T90 is great. You get exposure compensation (handy for snow scenes). You can also sum multiple spot readings to get the best compromise settings. Kind of 'content' weighting rather than 'centre' weighting. You can also measure the contrast present in a scene with multiple spot readings displayed in the finder.

Another way to put it. If you are operating from a 'civilised' base (skiing from Chamonix) the T90 is a good bet. At worst you will lose one days pictures and you can switch to a backup camera the next day. If you are ski touring for a week then the F1 could be the better bet for shear robustness, but at the expense of the T90's metering.

I have the T90, but if you do get the F1 please update this thread when you have given it a good workout.