Buying used lenses from an auction site (or any store)

<p>I wasn't sure where to post this question. If this is not the place, I apologize and please move it to the appropriate place.</p>

<p>I'm really not ready to purchase another lens, but I have been thinking about what type of lens I might want. When the time comes, I'd like to certainly save money by buying used. As a beginner, I'm probably better off buying used from a store that checks and rates equipment as to its condition. But, should I happen upon the lens I'm interested in on an auction site, I'd like to know a few things beforehand. First, is that a good idea? Second, what sort of things does one look for in a lens to be sure it's OK? </p>

<p>Thanks, and happy hump day,<br>

Renee</p>

<p>I've purchased several lenses and a couple camera bodies on eBay. There is no complete guarantee, but eBay will help if you have a dispute with a seller. I've had a couple problems in the past 10 years with items I purchased impulsively from sellers with minimal sales records. I've not had any problems with major purchases from sellers with good records. There is more risk than with B&H Photo, but the price is lower. I consider it a good trade. </p>

<p>Due diligence usually trumps dumb luck as the key to happiness with eBay purchases. A large dollop of patience helps, too. All the usual advice on when and how to bid is worth taking. Contacting buyers with questions about condition/functionality/shipping or asking for more/better pix can also help you avoid a bad deal.</p>

<p>Hi Renee - if you do a search on PhotoNet, using terms like Ebay, Used, etc. you will find literally hundreds of tips on what to look for, how to test used gear, approach sellers with specific questions about the condition of gear, what and whom to avoid, how to pay (and how not to pay), as well as personal experience with trustworthy dealers in used equipment. FWIW over the last 15 years I've bought and sold thousands of dollars of used gear. What I've sold has been in very usable condition, what I've bought, likewise has been very usable. So I think you're approaching the situation in a reasonable way, rather than just throwing dollars at something just because it is new and getting positive reviews. I highly value the 35-60 yr old gear I've acquired, as well as the newer stuff, which I was careful to select and get really good prices on.</p>

<p>I've purchased tons of photo gear on Ebay without any problems. The majority of sellers have been very honest about the condition of the gear. Also, many of my lenses are Nikon-refurbished, bought from both from online (e.g., B+H, Adorama), and brick-and-mortar dealers at significant discounts (e.g. 30-40%). Check for 100% or near-100% positive buyer ratings (see reasons for any negative ratings), and check to see if they were also selling similar equipment in the past. Some red flags include, few ratings as a seller, or those selling a high-dollar item (e.g., Nikon D4), but with only cell phone accessories as their only other sales.</p>

<p>I'm not a big buyer on Ebay. However, when I've bought, I've only bought from sellers with many sales and positive records like 99.5+. Otherwise I'd pass.</p>

<p>Recently, when my Minolta IIIf light meter broke, I tried bidding a replacement. I lost - I really don't know how to bid right. It's all the timing which someone could explain here. In any case, the unit was bid for $78 final which I lost plus a $12 ship charge. After I lost, I saw another one on Ebay for outright sale at $89 plus $6.00 shipping. So there was a $5 dollar difference between the bid and straight no-bid purchase. It wasn't worth the effort bidding.</p>

<p>I am a big buyer on eBay of old lenses and cameras that aren't available any way BUT used. Out of some 1000 purchases, I've had problems 2 or 3 times, not counting the times the vendor made it right on their own. The tough cases were when I took a risk and bought from some newbie seller. PayPal has always made it right if the vendor didn't.<br>

The advice above is good. </p>

<p>I would also advise </p>

<ul>

<li>Check on eBay for actually sold items. Anyone can ask anything, but only reasonable, for the most part, items sell. That gives you a range of prices.</li>

<li>Before you bid, check the biggies for used equipment. KEH is one I'd add to the list for good prices (often lower than eBay) and very conservative ratings. Their "bargain" rated items are often close to what sellers on eBay call "minty". </li>

</ul>

 

<p>I've had just enough problems buying through e-bay that I don't bother very often. KEH has a huge inventory and if there is a problem, one phone call usually solves it.</p>

<p>Rick H.</p>

<p>Renée,</p>

<p>I can offer a few comments to you here, a bit extended but they require a little explanation.</p>

<p>Firstly, the above advice about well-rated sellers is a good one, also the additional advice concerning (and one requiring simple membership of the Bay) where you visit the history of sales of an item of interest (advanced search, and indicating closed listings, not current ones) where the green colored prices are those of items actually sold and not just listed but unsold. Sometimes there is sufficient data in this regard, but sometimes not, it depends upon which items and the frequency of their appearance on eBay.</p>

<p>I look at those lenses which are well described in terms of condition and which show several clear photographs of the item, taking the pain to show any wear as well as the better faces of the object.</p>

<p>But that is largely cosmetic; you should contact the seller with questions like the following:</p>

<p>Do the controls of the lens (Focus - smoothness of movement or not? Diaphragm operation - sure and positive?) work as designed?</p>

<p>The photos of the front and rear lens surfaces are fine, but I always want to know from the seller if there are any issues with the face or inner glasses of the lens, such as fungus growth on surfaces, separation of the cemented glass elements or any other artifacts that describe that or other problems of assembly, haze or dust in the lens, any oil on the shutter or diaphragm blades.</p>

<p>You can ask the seller to place a bright light at one end of the lens and when looking through the lens from the opposite side does he see any haze or dust or other apparent irregularities? We cannot have the history of the lens that we sometimes have when buying a used car, but these above-mentioned checks can be important.</p>

<p>Some sellers cannot relate the lens to its performance on a camera (another question to pose) and I have been burned when occasionally buying a classic camera from a non-photography seller (like an on-line bookstore or seller of varied domestic products) at a low price but then finding that the shutter is not fully operational or the lens has issues.</p>

<p>A "photography seller" for me can be one who has a track record selling camera accessories, some members of Photo.Net the background of whom you can check, and camera stores.</p>

<p>When I ask these questions I have not had any problems.</p>

<p>It requires extra time to question the seller beforehand, but I keep a standard list of questions that I simply send off to a seller in order to confirm the item before bidding and purchase.</p>

<p>If you bid on the Bay, you can watch the evolution of bids on the lens of interest over the week or longer period during which it is being listed. In the hours or indeed minutes before the end of the bidding you can consider whether you can possibly purchase the item at a bid price that is reasonable for you. In those cases, I simply wait until the last few minutes of the bidding and place my bid (With my computer system and the time it takes to go through the various steps, that can be a minute or even more before the bidding closes). Doesn't always work, but I see no need to bid early at a low price that almost certainly will be bid-over later on.</p>

<p>Good luck, but try putting a WTB (want to buy) listing on a site like Photo.Net Classified if you are not in a hurry.</p>

<p>As long as the condition of the lens is specified to your satisfaction, either in the listing or in your questions and answers (which should go through ebay, so that they have a record), you will always have recourse through buyer protection. If you feel the lens was not as described, you'll be able to return it. Ebay is very good about that, and it's really a buyer's market. Just make sure you have all the details before you bid.</p>

<p>The first time I bought a lens from ebay was the last. The seller described the lens as "near perfect". When the lens arrived (it was for my pentax pz-20, my first slr) there was so much fungus in the glass I was surprised there wasn't mushrooms growing inside. I was ticked off to say the least. The seller offered no apology or explanation just simply told me to send it back which I did but that prick sure took his sweet time returning my money. So that was enough for me. I also suggest KEH.com. They are fantastic, very conservative ratings, 6 month warranties and an all around great reputation for customer service. </p>

<p>Thank you everyone for your helpful responses and advice. I do normally search the site before posting questions; this morning I guess I hadn't finished my coffee and my brain wasn't functioning! I'm not in a hurry at all to purchase, but I'd like to keep my eyes open for a good deal. I did also consider putting a WTB in our classifieds here - I may do that.</p>

<p>Marc, I suspect the seller either didn't ordinarily sell camera gear (ignorant of fungus issues) or was a newbie with very little selling history. These are both things you can (and should) ascertain prior to bidding.</p>

<p>Here's what I look for if I'm interested in an item:</p>

<ol>

<li>details as to the condition of the lens. All aspects of the condition must be specified so that there is no plausible deniability on the part of the seller.</li>

<li>feedback history: I usually want at least 99% positive. It sounds like an unnecessarily high number, but feedback ratings are very inflated. Read the negative feedbacks, if any, to find out how this seller might fail you. Often negative feedbacks arise from unreasonable expectations on the part of the buyer -- buyer just being an ass.</li>

<li>number of feedbacks: I think at least 50 is quite adequate, but check that many of these are as a seller, not a buyer, and that the seller has sold at least several items of a value and type similar to what you want to buy. I feel much safer if the seller has thousands of feedbacks and is a seller of, say, camera gear. However, low-volume individuals can often be trusted as well. I'll sometimes buy from a seller with fewer feedbacks, but ONLY if I'm getting a very good deal. (There's more risk.)</li>

<li>seller is responsive: If you have any questions, ask. If the seller doesn't respond, walk away. Sellers who don't respond to questions, in my experience, are often people who will jerk you around in other ways. If the item is very valuable, I will go out of my way to ask SOMETHING, just so I can feel out their responsiveness and attitude.</li>

<li>ease of return: If you're buying from overseas, make sure the seller has a pristine rating and that all your ducks are in a row, because returning the lens could be very expensive.</li>

</ol>

<p>Finally, I will also add my recommendation for KEH. Often their prices are cheaper than what you would find on ebay, and their condition ratings are notoriously conservative. (I have a "bargain" lens from KEH that was cheaper and in much better condition than the "excellent" lens I bought and returned on ebay. The ebay lens was <em>very slightly</em> prettier, but it had a problem in the focusing helix.) Always compare prices before you bid on ebay.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Recently, when my Minolta IIIf light meter broke, I tried bidding a replacement. I lost - I really don't know how to bid right. It's all the timing which someone could explain here.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>People may disagree, but here are my thoughts, based on:</p>

<ol>

<li>wanting to get an item at a <em><strong>good</strong> </em>price, not necessarily the lowest price</li>

<li>and <em><strong>not</strong> </em>feeling "I absolutely must have this one item (even though there are 600 more like it already listed...)"</li>

</ol>

<p>Some folks feel that the only "winning" is getting the item, at almost any cost. This is not me. I would do the same at a live auction, even though the "red fog" of bidding can take over at the end. If you don't have an idea of what the item is worth on the open market and what it is worth to you (which could be above or below the former), don't bid!</p>

<p>How my process works (in no particular order):</p>

<ul>

<li>Homework! what are the sold auction values, new cost, refurb cost, used cost at a reputable seller (e.g KEH), etc.</li>

<li>What is the item worth to me? And I don't forget to include the shipping & handling charges (which can be surprisingly high) when calculating it. No sense in snagging an item for $10 only to pay $15 shipping!</li>

<li>I will usually bid early, and bid my maximum amount. Only myself and the auction site know what my max is, and the site will bid on my behalf up to, but not over, my maximum bid. I find this a LOT more relaxing than trying to track it daily or hourly, and putting in a new bid. If an item starts at $1.00, and I bid $100, if nobody else bid, my "high bid" would be $1.00 until someone else bid. Then the auction site would raise my bid until it reached my max. The sole exception is if the auction had a reserve price set. In that case, if the opening bid is $1.00, but the reserve is $50, my "bid" automatically goes up to the reserve price, if I bid over the reserve.</li>

<li>I <em>never</em> allow myself to feel that I "lost" when I was not high bidder. I may not have gotten the item, but I also did not pay more than I was comfortable spending.</li>

</ul>

<p>With all this comes the risk of not being high bidder at the end. There are "sniping" apps out there that run automatically on your PC (maybe on the Internet, too) and will bid on your behalf in small increments near the very end of the auction. If getting the item at almost any cost is what you want, this may be a method for you. I don't and won't use them. In the impossibly rare occasion when I have to have something on auction, I'll be at the keyboard live.</p>

<p>Another way to absolutely get something is to put in an impossibly high bid at some point. Of course, you run the risk of someone else doing the same, and paying way more for the item than it is worth.</p>

<p>Auction sites often have dozens, if not hundreds or thousands of particular items offered over the course of a year. If you lose one auction for a Canon 70-200 f/4L IS, there are at least 20 more to bid on the same day. At some point, the stars will align, and you'll get the item you want for a reasonable price. And every once in a while, you'll get a bargain.</p>

<p>You really must do your homework: What's it worth from a regular retailer new? Refurbished? At KEH (or other seller of used gear) used? Is the new/refurb/KEH warranty worth something to you? To me, it is. Does the auction item come with all accessories, like caps, hood and case/pouch that a new item would? All of this should be considered before going the Auction route. There's no savings in getting a lens for $100 off the refurb price when you have to pay almost that much to get all the accessories separately!</p>

<p>Have fun with it, don't obsess over it, and you'll be a lot happier.</p>

<p>KEH----KEH----KEH. You won't be disappointed. Don't be afraid of their "bargain" class materials. They are usually better than any you can get on ebay or any of the other sites.</p>

<p>Yes, I bought stuff on ebay too. - Good idea? - Depends... Its a bad one if the entire flock of co-hyennas raises the price... Its harder to find a weirdo to buy a 5x7" displayed in a small town shop window than to offer it to the nation- or even worldwide scene. - I believe in the days of brick & mortar stores we benefited of those catering the non(existant) market.<br>

Ebay + paypal customer protection seems pretty good to me. - I worried way more when I bought a somewhat expensive lens abroad without them, knowing I'd be kind of unable to afford lawyers + interpreters to sue a fraudolent seller there. But if a deal seems too good to be true it surely isn't true...<br>

1st of all. Do your homework to know what you are doing or supposed to be buying!<br>

- Is the lens just supposed to somehow fit on your camera? or does it have a reputation of being "good"? Was it meant (=made) to be consumable? - Back in the 80s I wore out inexpensive consumer zooms within 2 - 4 years. Being after such a lens I'd look for one in an unused condition. There seems stuff that lasts longer; a prosumer prime may show some signs of usage on the outside of the barrel without making me worry, but I'd love to read that it is still "focusing smoothly" (not sticky / gummed up or with a sensible obstacle somewhere....) - "No scratches / fogging / fungus" another nice bunch of keywords in a lens description. "No noticeable focus shift"- a must read in a 2 ring zoom's description. If there is some mechanical shutter in the lens I want to read a comment "1sec setting running aparently properly" + "not sticky / seems working". I'd also look for an "undamaged filter thread" or ask how I am supposed to use filters with that lens. If I don't get these keywords directly in the auction offer I'd try to get them via email to the seller.<br>

If a private seller confesses to own a digital body matching the lens on sale requesting sample pixels looks like an option to me. I would happily provide those for a lens I'd sell as (however) usable, hoping to tickle another $10 of confidence into your maximum bid.<br>

There are a bunch of keywords that send me running: "inherited" "not tested" "I know nothing about photography" & such. - Sometimes I sit down and talk such sellers through checking stuff for me via mail but usually I write the item off as "most likely damaged "paperweight"". - Playing dumb is a standard trick to waver liability while appearing still honorable...<br>

Try to understand why something gets sold until you feel comfy with the deal. / Any doubts should be deducted from your maximum bid. <br>

Example: Some consumer zooms have the reputation of being able to be good in theory but QC at the factory is known to suck. - If I had 3 of those 18 - 50mms (which I recommend to get with new bodies) I'd surely push the worst of them on the bay. - Ditching a 90mm Super Angulon because I aquired another with rangemeter cam and wanting a 120mm, doesn't speak against the sold 90mm though. If somebody sells a 200mm f2.0 "because its just too heavy to carry" I'd only question my sanity and physical strength but not the lens on sale.<br>

You'll never know what you'll end with. - Its gambling. - I have used lenses that last and last, an expensive one I bought new but didn't use really seriously with jammed AF shaft, mint used ones with single aperture blades refusing to open after 2 years, an old one with sticky focusing that Leica claim to be unable to fix, others in need of a shutter CLA that Schneider suggested to better trash & replace... OTOH I don't mind a bend to unusable filter thread on a 135mm f2.8 which seems optically OK, was dirt cheap and is meant to go into the "disposable gear for high risks" bag.<br>

On ebay: it is possible to look for offers "near to you". - If a lens is kind of expensive and for digital cameras you have its no bad idea to visit the seller and peep testshot pixels on a borrowed laptop you brought with yourself.<br>

Looking hands on checklist: shutter & aperture AF motor /shaft working- yes? audible rattling parts inside, no? glass: fine unscratched & clear? General mechanical impression - everything smooth (crappy plastic aperture rings aside)? Lens feeling rigid no way shaky / worn out wobbling? Testshots! (evenly lit wall, look for vignetting, low resolution in the corners // Check close up resolution // If possible: try to find out if the lens is flare prone // do all apertures! - some lenses are too soft wide open, others suffer from odd internal reflections when stopped down) Screwdriver AF performance?<br>

<br />Good luck & much fun shopping. - I hope my reply helps a bit. - I'm not sure if shops really test used gear severely; that takes time which is money... They usually rather just sell something. - I got an older camera in spring which appeared working indoors but couldn't stand the moderate cold during late fall outdoors due to skipped CLAs & age. - As far as ratings go: The code: A+ to D- for conditions can be learned quickly and I guess a shopkeeper looks used gear ratings up somehow... A local one once told me about his pricetags in the window. "everyday some fool gets out of bed and I am here behind my counter for negotiations".</p>

<blockquote>

<p>eBay will help if you have a dispute with a seller</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Believe their buyer protection program has gotten quite good - it certainly wasn't in the past (like 5-6 years ago). Ask me how I know! I have purchased and sold a lot of camera equipment on ebay; I am not buying much off ebay any more, I rather browse the local camera store or deal with reputable places like keh, adorama, or B&H. I occasionally sell things but sometimes prefer to trade-in even though it means I am taking a bit more of a loss.<br>

The most important thing: paypal is the only means of payment, and within paypal, use your credit card (preferably Amex). Nothing else. Never pay with personal check or money order or anything else. Credit card through paypal - that's it. If a seller doesn't accept paypal, walk away! Paypal is the only way you ever are going to see money back if things went south. <br>

If you really want to protect yourself, then purchase the shipping yourself and email the seller the prepaid shipping label. Why? Because then you can initiate a track in case the shipment doesn't arrive or is "lost" - only the purchaser who paid for shipping can.</p>

 

<p>Renée - I find KEH has a better selection and less risk than eBay, but that's just my preference. <br>

You'll occasionally find a super deal on eBay, but most savvy sellers will check KEH first and set their starting price accordingly. Then, there are the crazy bidding wars that drive prices out of the reasonable range fairly quickly. I find eBay better for the odd items -- repair parts or pieces that aren't in great demand (except you need one for whatever reason).<br>

<br />I'd check KEH first -- guarantee and return privilege is more important to me than saving a few bucks at the cost of increased risk (and annoyingly brief descriptions).</p>

<p>How does the Paypal safety program work?</p>

<p>Alan, you just sign up for PayPal.<br>

As someone has already mentioned, you make sure that all your communications with the vendor are done through the eBay/PayPal messaging system so it is all on record.<br>

If you look around on the record of the purchase and the original listing shown in you "MyeBay" page, you will find something to the effect of "open a case", but always message the vendor yourself first. In my experience, if you are really unhappy that the item is not as described, or some flaw unknown to the seller comes up, then most of the time the experienced seller will let you return and refund your money. Most often, they will refund the original shipping, but more often you have to pay return postage, depending on why...</p>

<p>In the case of a lack of resolution with the vendor, if PayPal finds in your favor, then they will in the last resort pay the return postage (with registration) and refund everything to you themselves and then they will either collect from the vendor or kick them off.</p>

<p>So if the seller has a 99+ and sells hundreds if not thousands of items, you really don't need Paypal. If they have few sales, then Paypal won't help much if they're a one time seller of camera stuff. They have no incentive to make good; they got rid of the camera equipment. That's bad odds even with Paypal. </p>

<p>This year alone, I've bought over $10,000 worth of photo gear on ebay. I've had no problems. I am careful to buy only from those with good feedback and those who've been selling for over a year. Most of my purchases have been historic gear, including a $1,500 Ross Petzval last month. I've bought from many different countries around the world. Almost all of my Nikon system was purchased used on ebay, with exception of D7100 which is too new to find used. In the below photo are about $3,000 worth of lenses ranging from 1847 Voigtlander Petzval to a 1920s Velostigmat. All were purchased from ebay with exception of the cat. </p>

<p>Kent in SD</p><div></div>

<p>Actually, even if the vendor is a total newbie and fails to make things right, as I said, if PayPal finds in your favor, PayPal <em>will</em> reimburse you and deal with the vendor directly.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for all input/advice. I'm keeping an eye out on all the suggested sites for the lens I want. Like I said, I'm in no hurry but also don't want to let a sweet deal go by, no matter where I find it. Now if only I could get a live mentor, I'd be all set!</p>

<p>Test</p>