Buying a medium format TLR camera.

<p>I just started shooting medium format film. I am used to using a TLR (Yashica MAT 124G) but it was not mine and I had to reserve before using it. Instead of going through all that trouble I was wondering if anyone knew where I can buy a excelent or decent TLR for around $100 or less? Since I am a student I am on a tight budget. (I have been to <a href="http://www.keh.com">www.keh.com</a> but their cameras were way to expensive. I have also visited <a href="http://www.ebay.com">www.ebay.com</a> and searched for several medium format TLRs but either they were to expensive or the camera was disfunctional.) By the way, I have learned that HOLGA will be releasing Holga 120 TLR in August which would sell for about $59.99 at Freestyle Photographic Supplies (<a href="http://www.freestylephoto.biz">www.freestylephoto.biz</a>) the only problem with this is that they are plastic cameras with plastic lenses and I would much prefer a metal base with glass lenses. (This is because I might be shooting Infrared film in medium format) Any suggestions are welcomed, thanks.</p>

<p>Steer clear of holgas for your first TLR, Christian. Condition is a big factor in selecting any used camera. While KEH is a bit more money, they rate equipment conservatively and offer money back if not pleased. That's a good situation for your first TLR. The Minolta Autocord, in good condition, should be near your price range as well as the various flavors of Ricohflexes.</p>

<p>There is a Rolleicord w/ a Xenar lens on Fleabay right now for $89.00. The seller will take a return. He states that the speeds sound slow, but my guess is that the camera hasn't been used in a spell and firing the shutter 20 times or so on every speed will likely bring them up closer to spec. There are a lot of other possibilities on your budget. The Weltas are known to have good optics, just to name one maker. I'll bet that if you went to the auction sire and got into the TLR category under Buy It Now you would be able to find a good user w/ a return privelege for your budget.</p>

<p>I also second the advice to not go w/ a Holga. Buy a real camera. The Xenar lenses on the Rollliecords or Rolleiflexes are excellent lenses.</p>

<p>Thank you for your responses! I looked for Minolta Autocord cameras but they still were a bit to expensive. I also looked for a Richoflex camera and so far so good. Im just asking questions about lens condition and if shutter speeds are acurate. The cosmetic condition is excellent though. As far as the Rolleicord ($89), I found one on ebay but it sounds to good to be true and it has not been tested so I do not want to take a chance.</p>

<p>Do you think a Richoflex camera is a good starter TLR? Does it take 120/220 film because it looks tiny so it might take 127 film. Once again thank you for your responses!</p>

<p>There are Ricohflex models that take 127, a Super 44 I believe; but most take 120.<br>

Also I think some of the Super RicohFlex models could take 120, 35mm and 127 with the adapters but are hard to find with the adapters.<br>

I'd go with a 120 version.<br>

Some of the RicohFlex models are quite good but they seem to be fecthing silly prices these days.<br>

BTW, note the spelling it is RicohFlex not RichoFlex; a common mistake.<br>

Having said all that see if you can find a nice Yashica TLR like a 124. They can still be had reasonable at times but on ebay people seem to go crazy and bid them up.<br>

I bought an almost mint 124 from a member on one of the other forums for not much more than $100.</p>

<p>Good luck, a TLR while sometimes an aquired taste can be a lot of fun to use.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>For about $75 more, you could get this nice Rolleiflex that a member is selling:<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=956470">http://www.photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=956470</a><br>

You can find them a bit cheaper on eBay, but not by much.</p>

<p>Right now I have found a <em>Ricohflex IIIB</em> 6X6 TLR (This should be 120/220 format, right?) and it is being sold at a reasonable price. I love the <em>Yashica 124 Mat G</em> but the prices on ebay as well as other locations are by far unreasonable!! So with this being said, should I purchase the <em>Ricohflex IIIB</em> TLR or continue to search for another TLR? (The Rolleiflex camera looked fine but was still out of my budget price range, thank you for the suggestion though.)</p>

<p>Here's a good website on the Ricoh TLR's:<br>

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker/ricohflex.html<br>

The Ricohflex III looks pretty basic, but if you're planning on doing a lot of daylight work with slow film it probably will be a good starter. Otherwise, you might want to hold out for a Diacord or something similar to give you more flexibility in the future.</p>

<p>If you are to buy Ricoh, I'd say get a Diacord instead of Ricohflex.</p>

<p>Why should I buy a Diacord rather than a Ricohflex?</p>

<p>I would recommend Mamiya - the C330, C220 or C3.</p>

<p>Why do you reccomend that? So I should not buy a Ricohflex IIIB 6X6 TLR?</p>

<p>The <em>Mamiya</em> cameras are way out of my price range. So right now I am in a dilemma: for sure I will not purchase a <em>Holga</em>, but <em>Ricohflex</em> TLRs are great cameras (good candidate in purchasing, however I do not know which model to buy because so far ive seen <em>Ricohflex IIIB</em>), <em>Rolleiflex</em> and <em>Rolleicord</em> cameras are absolutly great but it is rare to find an affordable model (also in most cases it is uncertain if it functions correctly), <em>Yashica</em> cameras are also great but the prices are unreasonably high, and now i've come to learn that <em>Diacord</em> cameras (from <em>Ricoh</em>) are also great cameras and I have seen an affordable <em>1958 Diacord G</em> that is a good candidate to buy as well.</p>

<p>Candidates:<br>

-Ricohflex IIIB (Not sure if shutter is accurate but cosmetic is fine)<br>

-Rolliecord/Rolleiflex (Keep waiting for an affordable one but risk if its functioning)<br>

-Diacord G (uncertain of all aspects but cosmetic condition looks good)</p>

* Any camera that I buy, I will try to send it to be cleaned and inspected to see if it functions properly!

<p>Christian, have you actually checked out these cameras in real life? Modern TLRs like the Yashica Mats, Mamiya C series and latest Rolleicords have very good and bright viewfinders -- unlike many, many other TLRs.</p>

<p><strong ><em >Camera conditions/Prices</em></strong>:<br>

<br>

-Ricohflex IIIB<br>

“The Camera is Exceptionally clean and functioning well. It comes in a Richohflex wood box with a Ricoh 80mm f3.5 Anastigmat lens, a front twin lens cap, a film insert with both film spools, a waist level finder with loupe and a focusing screen. The Glass is in good condition: clean and clear with a few cleaning marks and a bit of internal dust - this will not affect image quality. The Shutter is working well but not guaranteed accurate. The Aperture blades are clean. The Film chamber is clean and in Pristine condition. The Leatherette covering and paint finish are in Fantastic condition. Cosmetics are Excellent+. [<strong >$98] 7 day return policy.</strong><br>

<br>

-Rolleicord III<br>

It has a Xenar F3.5, 75mm taking lens, but no markings around the viewing lens. Physically, it appears to be in excellent condition with no dents, and minimal scratches given the age of the camera. There is minor paint loss along the lower edges. Has not been tested.... the shutter seems slow, especially at the lower speeds. A professional inspection would be a really good idea if you wanted an accurate, photo taking tool. [<strong >$89] 3 day return policy.</strong><br>

<br>

-Diacord G<br>

In excellent condition. Appears to have been well taken care of and seems to be in good working condition. The body of the camera is clean and intact. The leather case has wear commensurate with its age and use. (As you can see the seller did not include detailed information on condition of lens, shutter speeds, apertures, etc.)” [<strong >$94.99] 7 day return policy.</strong></p>

 

<p>IN RESPONSE TO <em><strong>BUEH B:</strong></em> I HAVE NOT SEEN THESE CAMERAS IN PERSON, I AM GOING BY THE SELLER'S DESCRIPTION, REPUTATION, PRICE, AND RETURN POLICY. I HAVE NOT SEEN THE MODERN TLRs NEAR THE LONG BEACH, CA OR LOS ANGELES COUNTY AREA. IT SEEMS THAT BUYING FILM CAMERAS HAS BECOME MORE RARE EACH DAY DUE TO THE DIGITAL CAMERA AGE. I AM NOT ARGUING THAT <em>YASHICA. MAMIYA</em>, OR <em>ROLLEICORDS</em> ARE NOT GREAT CAMERAS (THEY ARE EXCELLENT!) BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY LOCALLY OR ONLINE FOR MY BUDGET OF AROUND <em>$100 OR LESS</em>. AND WHEN I DO FIND THEM IN THIS RANGE, IT IS UNCERTAIN IF THEY FUNCTION PROPERLY. THE THREE CAMERAS THAT I HAVE LISTED ABOVE: I HAVE LISTED THE SELLER'S DESCRIPTION, I TRUST THEIR REPUTATION, THEIR PRICES AND RETURN POLICY IS WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONCERN AND ADVICE BUT UNFORTUNATLY I CANNOT FIND CAMERAS LIKE THESE IN MY LOCAL AREA.</p>

<p>So with the seller's description, price and return policy displayed, do you guys believe I should purchase the Ricohflex IIB, Rolleiflex or Diacord G? or should I continue to wait and search for another TLR?</p>

<p>Between the Ricohflex IIB and Diacord G, there is no contest. The Diacord G has a superior 4 element lens compared to the 3 element lens of the Ricohflex. But Ricohflex models can be confusing. I have a Ricohflex which is actually a Diacord but not marked as such. Mine has the 4 element Rikenon lens and top speed is 400. Focusing is not by front geared wheel but by pushing up or down the levers situated near side of front of camera.<br>

Between a Rolleiflex and a Diacord, one would normally go for the Rolleiflex due to its reputation and prestige. It is the leica of TLRs. Film loading is unique and patented. There is no need to line up arrow against markers or red window.<br>

But in IMO, except for Rolleiflex models fitted with Planar or Xenotar, Rolleiflex models with Tessar or Xenar should not outperform the Rikenon on the Diacord.</p>

<p>So I should go with the <em>Diacord G</em> for its 4 element Rikenon lens which is better than <em>Ricohflex IIB'</em>s<em> </em>3 element lens and <em>Rolleicord</em>'s Xenar lens? ... Even though the condition is unknown because the seller did not provide a detailed description?</p>

<p><em>-Diacord G<br />"In excellent condition. Appears to have been well taken care of and seems to be in good working condition. The body of the camera is clean and intact. The leather case has wear commensurate with its age and use. (As you can see the seller did not include detailed information on condition of lens, shutter speeds, apertures, etc.)” [<strong>$94.99] 7 day return policy.</strong></em></p>

<p>It's about a wash between the Rolleicord and the Diacord. Both have very good 4-element Tessar-formula lenses, both have good shutters and the designs are very similar. I would probably rate the Rolleicord a bit higher than the Diacord, but only slightly. Either of these can be expected to give good service. With the prices and descriptions as you have shown them, I would go for the Rolleicord.</p>

<p>Have you thought about getting a Lubitel? I got my Lubitel 166 Universal for $50. It has 3 element lens so the image are kinda soft. It my 1st and only TLR so far. It take 6x6 6x4</p>

<p>Ok then I think I would go for the <em>Rolleicord</em> since the lenses have the same four element system. <strong>"There is no need to line up arrow against markers or red window." (M Roslan Habibullah)</strong> I am not sure how I am going to load my film but i will find out. Im am just glad it does not have the red window because I can shoot infrared! any more comments before ?I purchase it? Thank you very much for your advice and suggestions. Continued responces are still accepted, thanks. <em>I am still going to send the camera I buy to be inspected, cleaned, lubricated and fixed asap.</em><br>

<em></em><br>

-Rolleicord III<br />It has a Xenar F3.5, 75mm taking lens, but no markings around the viewing lens. Physically, it appears to be in excellent condition with no dents, and minimal scratches given the age of the camera. There is minor paint loss along the lower edges. Has not been tested.... the shutter seems slow, especially at the lower speeds. A professional inspection would be a really good idea if you wanted an accurate, photo taking tool. [<strong>$89] 3 day return policy.</strong></p>

<p>I have heard of these USSR cameras however I do not know anything about <em>Lubitel 166 Universal </em>cameras<em>. </em>They are sold for around $100 or less!</p>

<p>Im stuck in the same dilemma again.<em> Rolleicord III</em> is a great camera for its reputation, 4 element lens, comes with leather case and strap, price, cosmetic condition, etc. <em>Ricohflex IIIB</em> is a great because its a simple camera, comes with wood box and leather case and lens cap, great cosmetic condition, and a great price. <em>Diacord G</em> looks to be in great condition cosmetically, it has a 4 element lens just like the Rolleicord (someone mentioned slightly better) comes with a leathercase and lens cap, and the price is affordable. As far as having minor problems repaired I beleve the least expensive would be the <em>Ricohflex IIIB</em>, followed by the <em>Rolleicord III</em>, and then <em>Diacord G</em>.</p>

<p>The only problem I have with the cameras are:<br>

<em>Rolleicord III</em> the shutter may be off and I only have three days to return it if I am not satisfied. <em>Ricohflex IIIB </em>the shutter is also not guaranteed acurate. <em>Diacord G</em> has not been described in detail so I do not know the condition of the lens (whether it has significant scratches or dust, if the shutter is off, etc.)</p>

<p>Christian, there is no need to shout. Maybe I should clarify: While these vintage cameras are all decent picture-takers, most are very inconvenient to use because of their many quirks. The biggest drawback of many old TLRs is their poor viewfinder, i.e., on my Rolleicord IIe it is very dim with lots of vingetting (despite having new mirror). Critical focusing is very difficult in "low-ish" light.</p>

<p>So while some TLRs are within your budget, you better be sure not only that they work, but also that they work <em>for you</em>. You have experiences with a Y124G, which is a modern TLR with a very nice, bright WLF. Classic TLRs are quite different in usage, features and viewfinder. If you look long enough, you will find lots of fine and affordable medium format cameras (e.g., Mamiya SLR kits etc.).</p>