Brooks Institute VS Hallmark Institute: Your opinion greatly appreciated!

Hi guys,

I'm from Singapore and I just stayed up all night reading forums on a few

schools I've got my eye on.

Basically, I had three choices:

- Brooks Institute of Photography

- The Art Center College of Design

- Hallmark Institute of Photography

 

I don't see much ravings about The Art Center but I notice there has been a lot

of discussion about Brooks and Hallmark seperately.

I am having a hard time deciding between a formal education or a 10 month boot

camp that honestly quite scares me to hear how crazy it can get.

I know some people say that you don't need the formal degree. But since I'm

coming all the way from Singapore and paying so much, it kind of makes sense

right?

 

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate all the advice I can get from you!

Thank you!

Check Brooks on the Web. A New York Times article on July 24, 2005, in the business section, "The School that Skipped Ethics Class," is very disturbing. To read the Times online, you either have to register or to get access through a service like Lexis-Nexis.

Yes, I found that out when I pulled my all-nighter!

But ultimately it didn't affect what they teach the students and I'm not going to believe everything they tell me. Everything with a pinch of salt yeah?

Thanks for your input Hector! (:

There's more. I live in the Santa Barbara area, and often run into Brooks students. I often see their ads selling off their equipment after finishing there, frequently for a song. Some seem terribly disillusioned with photography, not necessarily Brooks, once they're done, and see no use in keeping any of their photo equipment.

 

This is a beautiful area of the U.S. and Brooks is in a lovely, scenic spot. It's great to have students in photography making a presence in what is a rather small population, but I'm not sure it's very good for those students. They seem a lot happier when they arrive, shopping at Calumet for whatever they don't already have, than when they leave.

 

I believe in education (I should -- I stayed in school long enough for a Ph.D. and two post-docs, and I've taught) but I'm not sure you'll get what you need at Brooks.

Thank you very much Hector. I have not been reading very stellar reviews about Brooks either but my parents want me to have a proper degree.

I tried explaining to them that a degree in this line doesn't necessarily mean that it gets you a better job the way it does in other industries but they don't really seem to get it.

 

Anyone who has gone to Brooks care to speak up?

Charity:

 

I believe your parents do get it.

 

If you are going to spend a lot of money on education, you would be better off with a degree from an accredited college than a piece of paper that has no other meaning.

 

Get a degree in business and study photography as a secondary pursuit. If you want to make photography your career, the photography aspect plays second fiddle to business. Success in photography does not translate to success in business. The most successful photographers are not the best photographers.

 

Just because you want to pursue photography now doesn't mean that you'll always want to. A degree from an accredited college has worth in other fields. A piece of paper from a photo specialty school doesn't.

 

 

Eric

I understand where you're coming from Eric, but it's very easy to say take a degree in business without knowing what it takes or requires from a person. Going into a business degree is asking for trouble personally. You don't know me personally so of course you wouldn't know this. I know for a fact that I would regret and dread everyday in that school of business because I am simply not that kind of person.

 

However, I completely agree that the business aspect of photography is vital and that's why Hallmark is great. They prepare you with that knowledge. While Brooks does provide business classes, I don't see that they have the same direction that Hallmark has. They prepare you for business and photography so that when they throw you out in the deep end, you don't sink.

And I'm not sure that you are familiar with these two schools. When I say "formal education", I don't mean in Business or Accountancy or what not. This education refers to a photography course as well, simply that you obtain a degree at the end of the day.

 

Plainly put, I know exactly what I want. I don't know if you've ever had the feeling when you know you are meant to do something and nothing else can come close. People may say it's an idealistic way of thinking and the real world will teach you lessons and change your mind but I know what's a phase and what's not.

I don't just want to "puruse photography now", I want to make it my career and stay with it.

A few questions:

What kind of photographic speciality do you want to pursue as your profession?

Have you researched that particular market at all?

Do you know what the business of the typical photographer in that speciality is like,

including overhead and annual personal income?

What are your top ten goals in life?

 

Answer those questions, and then I can probably offer some good options.

 

For what it's worth, Brooks CAN provide an excellent photographic education IF the

student (A) has natural talent, (B) is highly motivated and willing to work very hard both

during and after school to make it work, and © if the student understands going in how

hard it will be to set up a successful business after graduation. Many of their students

become disillusioned because they went there with the wrong expectations and for the

wrong reasons. They are attracted by the creative and romantic aspect, but are turned off

by the hard work and discipline required to really stand out above the crowd, not to

mention the difficult realities of the photography market after they graduate.

 

One thing to know about most photo schools, is that a small minority of their graduates

actually become successful photographers, so it is a really good idea to have a strong

backup plan, though I suppose the same can be said for a lot of other undergraduate

disciplines. If your end goal is to be a successful photographer, there maybe better ways

to spend your time at university, and the aforementioned business studies are just one

approach. Many successful photojournalists, for instance, have degrees that are helpful to

their understanding, interpretation of, and access to their speciality subject area, rather

than in terms of how to run a camera. Sebastiao Salgado is a trained economist, James

Nachtwey studied political science, etc. Depending on the speciality you want to go into,

you may not need extensive formal training in photography.

 

The best things about formal photographic education (I speak as a former photo major in

an excellent but relatively unknown fine art photo program) is that you get to shoot a lot

while being held to high standards, experiment with different techniques and styles, have

your work critiqued honestly and constructively by experts and peers (though photo

professors in some programs are only experts in their own minds), and introductory work

experience in the industry through internships. It is possible, however, to seek out or

create these opportunities outside of a formal academic setting.

 

Also, you might consider keeping Brooks in mind for grad school. The folks I've known

who have done grad work there have always had a better opinion of the place than the

undergrads. I imagine that a lot of this has to do with the fact that they had a very clear

idea of what they were planning to get out of the place.

 

Can you answer the questions I asked at the beginning of the post?

 

Best regards,

 

Justin Black

Just my two cents ... if you are coming all the way from Singapore then you may want to consider a school like http://www.risd.edu/ and similar programs (Syracuse University). This way you get a 4 year accredited undergrad degree AND top notch photo training. Then you can do a Hallmark or Brooks for grad. Just my two cents.

Justin:

Right now I am assisting a fashion/advertising photographer and this is the speciality that I am interested in. Being that I am in the industry, albeit just as an assistant, I am aware of the ups and the downs and this is the best research possible.

 

I am well aware that photography, especially in the advertising sector, is not all glamour and romance and so I am pretty sure I know what I am getting myself into. I have goals in life, although I don't put them on a "top ten" list but they are simple ones. Right now, my top priority is to give all I can to pursuing photography and build a career for myself in the near future.

 

Jeff:

Thanks Jeff, I looked at the website but the photographs don't appeal to me. I think one thing important is to attend a school that more or less agrees with your vision and style or else you'll just be forced to conform to another mould. Plus, I think it's more of a fine art course, something I am not looking for. But thanks for your input!

Hi Charity,

 

Assisting is a really good start. That's how I learned I absolutely did not want to be a

commercial photographer!

 

But seriously, if you are leaning more toward a fashion specialty and you plan to stay and

work in the U.S., I would very seriously consider studying in NYC, because that's where the

strongest fashion market is and that's where you will want to build your network. Good

networking is important anywhere, but is particularly so in the fashion world, as is a

general knowledge of and familiarity with the industry. Parsons School of Design and

Fashion Institute are good options there.

 

If you plan to be more of a generalist commercial photographer, then Brooks would be

great.

 

Best of luck to you,

 

Justin Black

Thank you very much Justin!

I'll look into Parsons and see how I like it.

You might find this interesting:

 

http://www.parsonsphotobook.com/

Justin writes: "For what it's worth, Brooks CAN provide an excellent photographic education IF the student (A) has natural talent, (B) is highly motivated and willing to work very hard both during and after school to make it work, and © if the student understands going in how hard it will be to set up a successful business after graduation. Many of their students become disillusioned because they went there with the wrong expectations and for the wrong reasons. They are attracted by the creative and romantic aspect, but are turned off by the hard work and discipline required to really stand out above the crowd, not to mention the difficult realities of the photography market after they graduate."

Hello Charity: Justin's comments above could not be more relevant to your pursuit. Although he states this in relation to Brooks, These facts are true to any photography school or no school. Photography has a glamourous appeal that quickly wears thin when the realization of all the hard work sets in. No matter where you go, work harder than the next student, be more focused, more persistant. "school" doesn't end at the end of classes. Of course, as a Brooks Alummni (B.A, M.S. Brooks Achievement Award)I would say Brooks is an excellent school. I worked my but off but I loved it and I got my first in-house job right out of school. But remember, no school can teach you to be a photographer. The greatest lessons are self-taught. Brooks and other schools just give you the tools, the environment and guidance on the path. The sweat still comes from your brow. Best of luck too you in your career pursuits.....Lou

Yes I completely understand Louis, my parents and I have decided on Hallmark. Now if only the admissions guy would return my emails or call me like he said he would!

I know I am a little late in posting on this one. I am a 1996 Hallmark Alumni. It is a great school, they will teach you everything you need to know in a 10 month intensive program. The great thing is that you are learning all types of photography; commercial, portrait and business. I do wish they had a little more business training in the program. I have heard that they have changed that since I was going to school there.

Hey Mark, thanks, I needed to hear that!

In fact, I'm waiting for the interviewer to call me soon.

I'm pretty excited about going so I hope it goes well.

Check out the Hallmark School in Turner Falls, Mass. I hear nothing but good things about it.

Yes, Robert, which is what this thread is about.

But thanks anyway.

Charity,

 

I am a current student at Hallmark. I cannot tell you how much I have developed as a

photographer since enrolling in this program. Its tough but anyone who has the passion

for their craft will make it. The program is divided 60% photography and 40% business and

every bit of class time and exercises we go through are worth it. Since you have already

been in photography much this you will already know so in the beginning it might appear

slow to you. Everyone starts from ground zero, so Fstops and shutters speeds might not

be a new concept to you but it picks up and you slowly begin to develop and grow as a

photog.

 

You absolutely made the right decision in pursuing Hallmark. We are in the final streatch

of creating our final portfolio so my time here is almost done. I'm missing it already. Best

of luck to you in your education and career.

 

-Mark

Hey thanks a lot Mark!

It's really good to hear confirmation like that.

It must be a really really good place to constantly receive raving reviews all the time. I have heard very few complaints about life there and those complaints are considered trivial.

I have been officially accepted into Hallmark so I will enter with the September batch. I am very excited and really looking forward to it.

Hope you do well with your final portfolio and other assignments.

Leave me your website if you have one yeah?

 

Thanks!

Charity.

<p>So, are you still at the school?<br>

How's it been so far...</p>

<p>Well, I am a graduate of Brooks from many years ago. Remember this, a school is what one makes of it. If one puts little into the experience, they will get little in return. No school can keep the passionate student from learning, and from being a success. I can't tell anyone what Brooks teaches today, but I can tell you that I learned what I needed to learn to be successful. Feel free to visit here to see what I did with the Brooks education that I received - http://www.firebirds.org/menu6/mnu6_p3.htm <br>

In fact, a degree from a good school get's one's foot in the door for a job interview before others. From there on it is up to the graduate to avoid putting his or her foot in his or her mouth... One has to sell themselves, and their abilities....<br>

Nolan B.</p>