reneereynolds Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I had recently posted a question about resolving a billing issue with a bride attempting to subtract my normal bridal session fee from the contract total because she could not have her dress altered in time. The session was part of a bridal show season promotion offering a complimentary bridal session with the purchase of an upper echelon package. The original post can be found here: <a href="http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00QeWT">Original Post</a>. After getting all the feedback, I sent the bride a registered letter explaining why the deduction could not be made, offered multiple possibilities including a last-minute session closer to the wedding date (Sept 27th) or a pre-wedding session for those shots, and stated that payment was required within seven days. 10 days later, no payment. My contract states, "No photography will take place until payment is made in full". I guess I need some feedback as to what my options are. I haven't been paid, and despite the fact that my contract contains the necessary clause, I have a feeling that there are holes, and I would like to know where to go from here. I have photographed more than 500 weddings over the past 15 years and I have never encountered a bride who didn't pay her balance...fortunate I know, but I have no clue how to handle this without 1, alienating the bride and any referrals that might have resulted (although I'm not sure I would want them at this point), or opening myself up to legal problems. Help please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_schultz1 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Have you tried calling her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneereynolds Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 I have...I have left two messages and she will not return my call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Give up. You can't win them all. With a 500 wedding/15 year history that you state, you have had a great run if this is your first serious payment issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtrejo6 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 No payment=no photography!!!! She signed the contract and agreed to the terms. Yes, you may have a disgruntled bride afterwards who may not provide the best referrals but it's your business and you should not let the bride dictate the terms. Call her and let her know where you stand. If sh continues to resist, remind her that she agreed to full payment or no photography will take place. With only a couple of weeks ubtil the wedding, she will be hard pressed to find another photographer so this may be to your advantage. If she threatens legal action, you have a signed contract that she has to battle with. Best of luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatherrene Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 My suggestion is to send her a registered letter explaining the point in your contract (that she signed) explaining that if she doesn't pay, she looses her photographer and her deposit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric merrill Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Renee: I'm assuming that you have all but a small percent of your normal fee? Shoot the wedding. But don't release any pictures until paid in full. In fact, I would put the images in a safe place and not even work on them until payment is received, and I would let her know this. At the point in time when she chooses to continue to honor the contract, you can, too. :) Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_gillette Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 If you aren't sure about your contract or what you can or can't do legally, talk to your attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'm not sure referals from this person are worth much to you in any event. We don't know how solid you contract is. Even if your canellation clause is in good order, it may be dependant on your language about the service. While most responding to your previous post felt that naming a service in the contract "comlimentary" automatically means it is a unenforcable freebie, I can see a legal argument that says that complimentary means the deal was sweetened with extra services that were incorporated in to the overall bargain. Of course a counter argument is that the even if that is true, the dress not being ready does not excuse or negate the obligation of client. Then there will be the impossibility defense due to the dress not being ready which will be rebutted with the fact that the dress will be ready eventually which will itself be rebutted by the frustration of purpose defense claim that the whole point of the portrait is that it be done well prior to the wedding, which will be countered by the argument that the portrait has value even after a wedding. A potential vicious cycle on that and other fronts is forseeable.. Is there a shorter answer? The good news is that there may be. The bad news is that the question is a contract (legal) matter, not a photography issue. The only sound advice at this point is to consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction quickly. A half hour of time can and generally is much cheaper than a legal claim of breaching a wedding contract. In the meantime, Tim's question seems valid in that it may provide useful infornmation. As to next time... reconsider offering and writing in to contracts so called complimentary services. If offfering incentives, just make it part of the deal and tighten up the contract to maximize the client's obligations despite things that arise even beyond their control. Use a lawyer for that too as some such provisions could be legally unenforcable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffcauble Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 The contract is the governing document in your relationship and I think you need to stick to it. It pays to be careful when handling a situation like this. If I were you I would have an attorney review the contract for "holes" just to make sure you have followed every step required and that you are justified in not shooting the wedding based on her non-payment. I might even have the attorney draft a letter explaining the breach of contract. You could, I would imagine, offer her one last opportunity to remedy the breach prior to the wedding. Otherwise, don't shoot the wedding. I think protecting your 15+ year business and reputation is worth the attorney's fee. My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_rych Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Well then prom my standpoint. I am assuming that you have a retainer fee and a stipulation in the contract regarding what happens to that retainer under different circumstances. You have already tried contacting her and can prove it. I would let her make the next move. I hate to say it but at this point if she is refusing to pay for the photography services she contracted and wont select a lesser package then she is still due to pay. Come the wedding day If I was not paid the balance I wouldnt show. Since you have a retainer you have to hold the date but you are not required to show unless the other party has perfrmed thier part of the contract (paying you). If she paid more than the retainer then refund her any overpayment other then the retainer as your contract states. When she's pissed off that she cant remember her wedding day other than uncle bobs piss poor photo's, it's nobodys fault but hers. PersonallyI am too busy and dont have time for people like this. A well written contract will take care of this problem for you. I think they said it best in Frosty the Snowman "NO MONEY...NO TICKET!" My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Here is how our 2 studios, soon to be 3 studios work. Without a contract we don't work. It's that simple. Contracts can be re-written, but since the bride doesn't return your calls well I'd say she is looking or has hired someone else. I just did an event for Playboy and there were 2 contracts written, one for Playboy and one for me, so I don't have any problems with more then 1 contract, so if this bride wants to write her own contract let or ask her to do it. Then you can accept it or not! Whatever you do, don't shoot the wedding until something has been signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrenlewis Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Sometimes, ya' gotta' fire the customer, However, I'd have an attorney review the documents first...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_c.5 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 If she doesn't want to do the bridal session per se, you could convert the time and work you'd have spent on it into some other kind of family photo session, to be done after the wedding. Heck, there's really no reason she couldn't do a bridal session AFTER the wedding unless her dress gets ruined somehow (it would be the same work/expense for her, whether before or after, and she would still have the bridal photos). I'd go ahead and shoot the wedding, but retain her pics until you're paid per your contract terms. She's obviously trying to save some expense, or trying to get over on you somehow, but that isn't going to work for her. If your contract is worded properly, you're covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a._j._jacobs Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'm not sure if you took a deposit or not, but I would send one last certified/registered letter saying basically that if you don't receive payment by (date), you will have to release her as a client and you will be keeping the deposit. I would also call with the same information. Although, I do like Eric M's suggestion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_schultz1 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I don't think you should shoot the wedding and hold the images hostage. You are just asking for more headaches. If you can, walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_m. Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Maybe she just doesn't have the money right this second. You need to relax and just wait until you talk to her. There might be a good reason why she has not paid yet. I suggest you keep trying to reach her and if you can't show up the day of the wedding and do the job you were hired for. She might have the money for the day of the wedding if she doesn't who cares. You will still have all the pictures and can hold on to them until she pays. Your other choice would be to listen to all the other posts and do what your contracts states "no payment / no photography". That way the bride and take you to court and even if she loses I bet she will have no problem making sure everyone she knows is aware that you didn't show the day of the wedding and that you ruined everything. ( Of course she will leave out that she never paid you, but that wont matter then and you wont be there put in side of the story - so suck it up and shoot the wedding. You still will hold all the pictures after the wedding until payment is made. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikonaggie Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Have you contacted the groom? Maybe he can reason with her. Maybe her parents (they usually pay anyway) will do so. Also, if you don't show, she will bad mouth you all over the place. A letter from an attorney will most likely silence her. FWIW, she may have a "relative" who "takes good pictures" and she sees a way to get them done on the cheap. She will get what she pays for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo_dark Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 The point is, there is a signed contract stating that the bride will pay in exchange for services...she hasn't paid when she agreed to, which means that she has broken her side of the contract. Plain and simple. This isn't a "oh just be nice for a free referall", it's business... how is wedding photography any different than any other work-for-hire? If a contract is signed, an agreement has been made. Her referall is worth nothing considering her attitude towards the signed document and the agreed amount. She is blatently trying to modify the contract to her terms, and I honestly would not let her run with it. If it were me, she would have to cough up the rest of the money or she is going to lose her wedding photographer and her retainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_thomas Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I totally agree with David. Know one else works for free, so why should you, I’m sure she gets paid for her work. You did everything you could do to contact her, there isn’t really much more you can do. So keep the money she gave you, and enjoy the day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 "Also, if you don't show, she will bad mouth you all over the place. A letter from an attorney will most likely silence her." Both will inspire negative comments. If the bride has the ability to hire a new photographer with whatever refund is due, the backlash will probably be limited. The letter will ensure negative backlash no matter what and any shoot going forward will be miserable at best. Complaints after the fact will ensue on so on. "The point is, there is a signed contract stating that the bride will pay in exchange for services...she hasn't paid when she agreed to, which means that she has broken her side of the contract. Plain and simple." I tend to agree. The complementary service really isn't complimentary when the photographer agrees to provide it as part of the contract. It is part of the whole package. The photographer is bound to provide the service, the client is obligated to pay for the package. As to contrctual defenses previously mentioned, they should not be ruled out although they are weak because the service can still be provided without the same dress, later on or provided in some substantially similar and valued way. The problem is that we don't know if the contract is rock solid as to cancellation and refund issues. Renee needs to consult with an attorney to determine that. If it were me and the contract in necessary order, I would send back any refund due with notice saying that the wedding shoot will not go forward. The client will just cause more trouble later making up more justification to lower the fee after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_mankey Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I'm no wedding photographer but I would be wary of doing the shoot and holding the photos hostage as some seem to suggest. No matter how right you are that sounds like it could turn into a bit of a PR nightmare. I'd go with the suggestions to have a lawyer look over the contract and situation and go from there. If you can end the deal and walk away that sounds like the best result for you and the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g.e._masana Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 She's refusing to deal with you. Any bride on the verge of her wedding day, as this one is, is certainly communicating with her vendors in a somewhat timely fashion, typically in a favorable mood! You haven't been paid you said, and so she's not invested in you, and it looks like she's moved on. You obviously can't refund something that was given as a comp (that's why coupons for freebies say things in small print such as "no redeemable value"), you did offer alternative options, and she's refused to accept them or even counter-offer. She just goes ahead and pulls surprises. Then she disappears. Not really the mature way to conduct business. So you must move on as well. Send her a registered, return receipt letter documenting succinctly (without lecturing! "Just the facts, ma'am!") that you did offer options although the session was complimentary, and the payment due date for the contract has come and gone without receipt of payment, and despite your repeated attempts to contact her, she hasn't communicated with you, so you have no choice but to see this as her breach of contract and therefore will not be performing your part at the wedding. In this way, you let her know that she's the one unlawfully terminating the contract, not you, and you're also protecting yourself from the possibility that she turns around after the event and alleges that she expected you to show and then sues you for alleged damages. You've also documented everything step by step in this letter in the event you need to offer it as proof. I'm not an attorney, and this isn't legal advice. It's just that you have a bad situation at hand and you want to protect yourself from it getting possibly worse. Sorry you're going through this, but that's what makes life so interesting. There's all types of people out there, and sometimes, they get married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler_hunter Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 No one is saying that the wedding should be shot for free. The fact they have a signed contract I'm sure that means there was a deposit paid or a retainer and I'm sure it was for at least half of the total. So you have half of her money and haven't done anything yet. That alone should at least give you a reason to talk to her and the groom. Find out what the problem is and what you can do to help. The wedding photographer is not the only thing that she needs to pay for at the wedding. She could be running low on cash and is embarrassed to say anything. The point is you do not know, God forbid you give her break and let her pay the day of the wedding or workout something else to help her. I think you would be allot better off being open and help her out if she needs it rather than some jerk who could careless about the problem or the reason and just wants the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_mertz Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Be patient, going back to your original post this sounds like a problem that could have been taken care of with a polite talk over the phone. Keep trying to talk with her calm things down some. I had a similar problem with something I tossed in a contract for free. Deal with her on friendly terms. BTW I no longer put any freebies in the contract. If I want to give someone something it is a gift and is not in the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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