Jump to content

botched photos, bride wants refund


lom_t

Recommended Posts

<p>I am so happy to have found this website. I'm hoping some more experienced photographers can help me out with this issue.<br>

I shot a wedding back in November 2010, during which my camera had sensor problems, and ALL of the ceremony shots turned out grainy and had a tiny red line through each image. She was unhappy with the way they were edited, and her mother requested the originals which we gave them. She still had many photos that turned out fine. I am including one image as an example of how her ceremony images turned out.<br>

Blurry [because of the reduced grain], yet still grainy, and poorly lit. Some were better, some were ah... worse. Now, her other pictures turned out okay. Some, in fact, we really great.<br>

They were promised at least 30 images an hour, and we shot for seven hours. They received a total of 562 edited images, and all of the unedited images [i think there were about 900 unedited]. It was a technical error that we didn't even realize had happened until we were in the editing process. The bride now wants a refund, and this is where the trouble comes in: my husband and I own this business together, and I am open to giving her a refund [mainly to get her off my back], but he is dead-set against it. <br>

We are new to the biz and I need your advice. Should we offer her a refund? 100%? 50%? Has anything like this EVER happened to anyone else in the business? [Please say yes.] In what cases has anyone had to offer a refund before?</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

<p>First off all I presume you mean back in November 2009.<br>

<br />I offer a 100% money back guarantee and will stand by that no matter what. Customer satisfaction is paramount. Work with the couple to try and give them the best possible images that you can along with a 100% refund if that is what they have asked for.</p>

<p>Upsetting them will only give you bad publicity that will be very hard to shake off especially if you have just started up your business and trying to get a name for yourself. This is especially more so if your market is small.</p>

<p>You mention that there are 562 edited images, what type of post production you have done on these. Are you able to post a link to an original raw image that we can download and see if we can’t retrieve a better image from post production than you have been able to do. There are some very clever people on this site that can work magic.</p>

<p>Kind regards<br />John</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Plain and simple. You (your camera) screwed up. You did not deliver all of the quality shots that you promised. You need to make this right. I can understand your husband not wanting to give back any money but he is wrong. You need to take responsibility for your camera's actions. Would you rather have her hire a lawyer and sue you?</p>

<p>I would sit down with the bride and negotiate a refund immediately. Have her sign a statement stating that with the refund, that this fulfills the original agreement.</p>

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I have never refunded any part of a wedding fee, but also never had a reason to consider a refund. It is always preferable to offer product as compensation since you can more easily control product costs, but depending upon the deal you made with the couple, this may not be feasible.</p>

<p>I think the client is due some compensation. Even if it was a technical error with your gear, that has nothing to do with your client's expectation of receiving a quality product.</p>

<p>I would say that if you refund, it should be a partial refund, with perhaps, two factors. First would be the number of 'bad' images as a percentage of the total number of images, with corresponding refund in relation to the total money collected. Second would be an added weighting of the percentage due to the fact that it was the ceremony images that were affected. Of all wedding images, the ceremony images are, if not on top, near the top in importance. However, I don't think you should refund the whole amount collected, if the client received <strong>some</strong> good images.</p>

<p>Not that it makes any difference now, but what was the sensor problem? The exif says the flash fired, but I see no evidence of flash in this shot.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>The exif says the flash fired</p>

<p>Nadine, You say you checked the exif and that the flash didn't fire. When I checked the exif there is no mention of the flash firing. What I did notice though was "Exposure Compensation +5" now this just might have something to do with the grainy images.</p>

<p>John</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Thank you everyone, for your responses. I have to first say that I am truly embarrassed about this situation. We were and are new to weddings and have never produced such poor work as these, so don't be surprised if you hear some ignorance from my side.<br>

Josh, yes November 2009. The photos we originally gave them were not all that great. We offered to provide re-edited photos but they were more interested in just receiving the originals. I will look into uploading an image somewhere that other photographers on the site can look at.<br>

Nadine, gosh, it was so long ago I don't even remember if I was using flash the entire time or not. I suppose not.<br>

I am going to guess she received about 150 to 200 decent images in "getting ready" photos and reception photos.<br>

The entire wedding was for $600. I will try to find the contract here pretty soon.<br>

I was thinking a $300 refund sounded reasonable. The thing is my husband lost his job back in April and we are tight on - no, desperate for - cash. We are currently living under the poverty line and cannot afford a refund at this moment. He is in the process of applying for a job now but it may not happen for a couple months, or at all. So, I have no idea how I should handle the situation. </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I am sorry about your situation but unfortunately, your financial situation is a separate and personal issue from the issue of poor image quality produced for business. I think a $300 refund sounds reasonable. Also, unless you never intend to shoot another wedding, your reputation will suffer if you don't make this good with your client.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Lom, your willingness to discuss such a sensitive issue speaks volumes of your sincerity in wanting to make things right. I would extend that same sincerity to your client and communicate to them that you wish to reach an amicable resolution to this matter.</p>

<p>People are mostly decent and honest. I'm sure your client is upset more about the principle of the matter than the money. The moment is lost, and they know that, so salvaging the situation is in both your interests without further escalation, and there are some good suggestions above to work with.</p>

<p>Successful business relationships are more about integrity than letters in a contract, and it seems to me you have more than plenty of integrity. Best of luck to you.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won't comment on refunding their money.

 

As far as the photo, it looks to me as it was shot without a flash and not set to manual on your camera. The exposure is probably under a 15th of a second, or less.

 

To solve this from happening again have your camera set to about 60th of a second and an F stop of or around F5.6. You need to use a flash to stop motion. Also, depending on your camera some auto settings won't take the information regarding your strobe.

 

This is probably why you have this type of photo,

 

I won't be too hard on you, because I'm sure your are sick with these results. I would suggest to see if you can find a pro near you and tag along with him or her. At the same time learn how to use your camera by practicing everyday for at least a 1/2 hour.

 

Think of it this way. Anyone can be a photographer, as well as a musician. The difference is musicians in the classical world start practicing by the age on 10 or less, if they want to have a chance to play in an orchestra. To be good at weddings and photography in general take a few classes, practice on some friends, learn to shoot in darker places, including outside. You will for sure get some backyard weddings.

 

You may also want to get insurance for situations like this. These companies will cover your wedding and your camera gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I would go with the 50% refund. In the future you should not promise a certain number of image per hour. You should contract for a set period of time, like 6 hrs coverage. The number of images that you take is not important, it is the quality that counts. You should only deliver maybe 400-500 images to the customer. Be honest and upfront with your customers and hopefully your reputation will survive.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>This was processed in Lightroom 3.2 especially for noise reduction and chromatic aberration with smart sharpening for camera blur in Ps5. I think with the RAW files you could get something that would be acceptable to the bride and groom especially color balance. You can download trial versions of the programs from Adobe. Folks here can help you with the proper adjustments. I think B&G would prefer to have usable images rather than a refund.</p><div>00XNw5-285291584.jpg.b30ccee870c95951bdb39369499ebed2.jpg</div>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I would settle somewhere in the middle. I would offer the couple a 75% discount AND a future shoot (maybe a christening/confirmation, another event, etc) for a reduced rate. Like it has already been said, the moment for the couple is lost and there's very little you can do to compensate for that. All you can do is try to show the remorse you've shown here to the client and hope for the best.</p>

<p>I understand that money may be tight right now, but they will be tighter if you let this drag along and damage your reputation.</p>

<p>I would not go into the desperate option of attempting to process the images in order to get something "better" - the client is already past that (as it was shown by their request for the original unedited images) and you would simply end up losing more and more time, time you would not be paid for.</p>

<p>In closing, yes, practice more - a LOT more. Try and experience more and more challenging situations and READ. There must be literally hundreds of books out there with techniques and advice - take them out of a library, flick through them at the local college or even at a large bookstore. When a client rests their hopes for memorable images on your skills, those skills have GOT to be honed to perfection. No excuse applies...</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<blockquote>

<p>The exif says the flash fired<br>

Nadine, You say you checked the exif and that the flash didn't fire. When I checked the exif there is no mention of the flash firing.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This might have been the second of two shots taken in rapid succession (i.e. less than a second apart). In that case, an underpowered speed light might not have had time to recharge for the second photo. The camera would indicate that it fired the flash, but you wouldn't see any effect because the unit didn't have enough juice to illuminate the second shot. That would explain the motion blur and the incorrect white balance.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>“during which my camera had sensor problems”</p>

<p>Going through the exif data it reveals an exposure time of 1/100 sec, an exposure program of shutter priority, an exposure bias of 5 EV, an f number of 4.5 (maximum aperture of 4.44) and a focal length of 70 mm or 105 mm (35 mm equivalent) with a multi-segment metering mode applied using a Nikon D70s. It also indicated that the flash did not fire (but interesting, did not indicate an ISO value).</p>

<p>The lens has been forced to it maximum aperture (at 70 mm) – which may indicate low light (which would effect autofocus speed (if that was used) and contribute to blurriness). One way to check the degree of low light would have been to set the shutter speed to say 1/50 sec and then 1/25 sec (with the exposure bias at 0 EV) and see if the aperture continued to sit wide open. If it did, then definitely not enough light. Setting the exposure bias to 5EV (either by mistake or intentionally) will not solve a low light problem.</p>

<p>Without analysing this any further it would appear that the lens-camera combination was not suited to this job (although you do mention a tiny red line through each image?). We are 10 months done the track – has it been established that the sensor was part of the problem?</p>

<p>Now about what to do? I think the advice offered by John McCosh, Barry Goldberg and Frank Skomial is where I would be starting. </p>

<p>Weddings carry the weight of enormous expectations – so I would just try to make this couple happy, learn from the experience and move on.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Do what you need to to make the couple happy. </p>

<p>I completely understand about your financial situation, but you really need to refund something to them at this point. </p>

<p>My guess is that you were shooting with the 18-70 f3.5-5.6 lens (which is / was a kit lens for the D70.) - While that is a very good lens - it does have it's limits and drawbacks - one of which is poor low light performance. </p>

<p>Couple that with the D70 / D70s poor high ISO performance (out of the camera) you have a recipe for bad images. That's not to say that D70s can't take excellent low light photos - but you have to know the situation and work the exposure correctly. </p>

<p>Here's what I did to the image - about 2 minutes in PS elements. <br>

1) color - fixed the balance - got rid of the yellow cast. <br>

2) Noise - Noiseware pro. <br>

3) Sharpen - Alienskin exposure 3<br>

4) smooth out the skin - Portraiture Pro. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

<div>00XNz7-285335584.thumb.jpg.122c2100efb2f096f15b4a022944207b.jpg</div>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Lom, you got some good advice here from real pros.I would go with a partial refund.<br>

I tend to agree with Nadine that this was likely the second of two shots in rapid succession and the flash did not recycle yet. Happened to this amateur dummy me plenty of times.<br>

I am nowhere near that, but in terms of fixing, you may want to try to do some black and white conversions. IMHO that tends to make noise less apparent and obviously gets rid of color cast (it seems like the white balance setting was off). I hope you shoot RAW (at least from here on), it helps you especially as you are gathering experience; you need more memory space but it pays off. You may also have noticed that people here have used some software to process the images - don't know what you are using, but it may be a good investment.</p>

<p>If you are serious about this, you will need a business plan that probably accounts for things like this to happen, and maybe insurance. While I am sure that many people take great images with a D70s, that equipment is dated now and you may want to consider an upgrade as soon as you financial situation allows. In low light, you'll benefit from a f2.8 lens or two. Some people shoot primes, and a 35 f2, 50 f1.8 may be within you budget.</p><div>00XO23-285401584.jpg.9c3da3d122016432d82e226d51f9150d.jpg</div>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p><em>ALL of the ceremony shots turned out grainy and had a tiny red line through each image.</em></p>

<p>Then you are lucky that they are willing to accept a full refund, instead of suing you for not only a full refund but also damages. (Whether such a suit would succeed depends in part on the contract's language and the laws of your jurisdiction.) The ceremony is the most important part (IMO). If all of the images of the ceremony have substantial problems, they did not get the main benefit of why they hired you. To me, it's really that simple.</p>

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I guess I must be wrong about the flash firing. I was using Panda iexif, and thought I read the flash fired. Anyway Benjamin, it was Dan South who thought maybe the image was the second or so in a series, with flash recycling being the culprit.</p>

<p>I also think Lom is past the point of fixing the images to avoid a refund. She has said she already gave the client all of the unedited images and they are not interested in more editing--they wanted all the files. At this point, I believe a partial refund is the answer. The question would be how much would satisfy the client.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...