Boiling water to lessen impurities?

Hi All.

 

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Thanks for those who responded to my posts.

 

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My materials; paper is almost a year old and the chemistry probably a few months or so.

I did a check on my equipment and I have checked the ideas that one responder had about alignment of enlarger, leaks, etc. Everything passes on that. I'm thinking maybe it could be the water?

Will boiling water take out most of the impurities? Buying water is alot, like $3.00 a jug here for an average brand, evian being more.

I mixed new fixer up and I still get the same results, unevenness, patched results. My print results are lifeless in detail and tone.

Im not able to do the zone system test in with my materials, the consistency is totally off on the zone tests as well.

I have also replaced the enlarger lamp and I still get the same results.

 

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Here is what I'm using:

HC 110 (dil b) Indicater stop bath Rapid fix by kodak

hypo clear by kodak photo flo-2000

dektol 1:2 for the printing.

 

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Processing is with regular water, no filtering:

Development of tri-x 320 rated at 200 ISO

 

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presoak: 1:00 constant agitation

5:30 minutes at 68 degrees +/- 0.5 deg

Initial agitation at first 30 seconds, then 4 inversions every 30 seconds

Stop: 30 seconds continuous mild agitation 1/4 oz to 16 of water

Fixing: 7:00 with fresh bath same agitation as with film developing

rinse: 1:00 continuous

Hypo clear: 2:00 constant mild agitation, 1:4 dilution

Wash: 10:00 from sink, mild pressure, refill and empty rate about 12 times per minute at 10:00

Photo-flo 1:200 at 1:00, mild agitation for 30 seconds initially then a 30 second rest period.

 

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film is then removed from reel then hung in a dustfree spot in the bathroom, drying is done by air, usually a good 2 hours for air dry.

 

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Printing: Omega b66 enlarger with ph140/75w bulb.

Printing for a grade three contrast, no filtering in drawer.

Paper is Ilford multi 3 vc glossy paper.

 

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Printing in dektol for 2:00 continuous tray agitation.

factorial development is applied after a certain amount of print developed per solution.

Stop: 30 seconds 1/4 to per 16 oz of water.

Fixing: 3:00 minutes in rapid fix 1:7 dilution

no hypo clear all rc

wash: 5 minutes 65 - 75 degrees

refill rate of wash bin is two times per minute.

 

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drying: hair dryer on medium, full dry in 90 seconds.

 

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I have tried reducing the grade of the paper and get complete deadness in the tones.

 

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If anyone has any suggestions to this problem that would be reat.

 

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Thank you all for your time in reading this letter.

 

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Robert D.

Mysteries are great fun, unless you happen to be the one with the

problem! Do you know anyone who will loan you a "good" negative, or

do you have anything shot in the past that you know prints well. I'd

see if you can still make a good print from a known good neg. That

will at least insure you're working on the right end of the problem.

Some of what you describe could be subtle camera motion or focus

problems- they rob snap and contrast before you notice actual blur.

Your processing sounds fine. I'm not a fan of presoaks, but lots of

people do it without issue. What kind of tank do you use and exactly

how do you agitate? Full inversions? Time per inversion? What does it

sound like? Is the tank completely full or partially full? How big a

tank? Does your water smell or taste funny? If you draw a quart or so

into a clean glass jug, does anything settle out of it? How much

deposit do you get when you boil it? Is it hard to get soap to

lather, or hard to rinse it off? Does anything settle out of your

Dektol? Could you have gotten a bad batch of HC-110? (hey, anything's

possible) Has anyone ever broken a mercury thermometer in the area

where you store your film or paper? Do you store anything else with

your film and paper. Lots of questions, admittably to get ideas going.

Bubba, dont buy Evian! that stuff is more expensive than gasoline...

go to the supermarket and buy distilled water, cheapest brand

probably your supermarket has their own brand.

It seems to me that boiling water drives off only volatile impurities, at the same time reducing the volume of the water and thereby increasing the concentration of the solid impurities left behind. If you boil, you probably should filter, too - maybe with coffee filters.

Greetings,

 

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As previously stated, boiling water will not help, however capturing

the steam and allowing it to condense will result in distilled

water. While you could make your own distilled water, it's much

cheaper to buy it; I've seen it sold for less that $1.00 a gallon.

 

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Regards,

Robert,

This lack of uniformity you mention seems a lot familiar with 120

films I've developed over the years for some different clients, and

once or twice, for myself. In all the cases, film was old and/or

exposed to high humidity situation, such as being used just after

been out of the fridge. On these cases, paper and emulsion seem to

develop some estrange reaction wich affects resulting image.

Have you tried your methods with some other film?

Good luck.

 

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Cesar B.

I haven't tried other film yet, just tri-x. When I first bought the

film i didn't refrigerate it till later some time. Then i removed it

and it's I'd say about a good month maybe that it hasn't been

refrigerated.

 

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This is great. I appreciate these feedbacks. I do feel more at ease

knowing that the water isn't much of the problem. I will stick at 68

degrees though to stay within the modest ranges of times.

 

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If it's unavoidable I maybe could use the 75 degrees or higher and

cut the ratio of the mixture, I'll have to experiment on this.

Experimenting is mot the thing to do if you are trying to find the

reason of your problem. Stick to the most simple procedure and try to

respect the rules. Use distilled water for the preparation of all

your chemicals AND for the fimal rinse of your film. If you cannot

get any distilled water, get a simple water filter that will at least

remove the solid impuruties of your tap water and some of the

chemicals used for sanitary reasons. DO NOT use water that is sold

for drinking, it also contains several other things apart H2O...

Use Photo-Flo or Agepon before drying your film, this will help you

avoid drying marks...

So there is a difference between distilled and purified drinking

water? If that's the case I may be going after the wrong item.

 

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I have heard of filtration systems like Brita and so forth, would

these be a good alternative to filtering?

 

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Thanks for your time.

Drinking water (particularly anything that tastes halfway decent) has

a lot of minerals in it. Try drinking some distilled water and you

will know what I mean.

 

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For mixing developers (film or print), it is best to use distilled

water or filtered water. I just bought a gallon of distilled water

for $0.59 at Kmart. The Brita water pitchers with filter work fine.

I wouldn't worry about the water for any other solutions, except for

the final film rinse, which should be distilled water mixed with

Photo-Flo wetting agent.

Having worked in a biology lab, and mixing many different chemicals

into solution, I would suggest using the distilled (aka deionized)

water. As said before, you can purchase the water relatively cheap.

 

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In the research laboratories. It was mandatory all solutions were

made with AT LEAST double distilled water (taking distilled water and

distilling it again). Distilled water still has traces of minerals or

particulate matter... not good when the solutions are to be used in

experimental data which are eventually published. The double

distilled water, however, was provided by the university and was not

to be wasted.

 

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Many research laboratories used the extra precaution of nano-pure

water (not to be confused with purified water through a filter).

Basically the same as double distilled water, the nanopure water also

is free of dissolved gases such as CO2, Nitrogen, etc... that

distilling doesn't address (distilling can separate solids from

liquids or liquids from liquids, not gases from liquids).

 

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Basically, I use the regular distilled water and it works great. I

know you can purchase the nanopure water, but it's very expensive

stuff.

Distilled water can be cheaply obtained if you have a condenser

clothes dryer.

 

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I had a very pleasant surprise after my wife convinced me that buying

a expensive european clothesdryer was a good idea (I think it was a

payback for the hassy kit). Anyway when the guy came to install it,

he showed us how to work the dryer (it can do all kinds of amazing

things) and he mentioned that the moisture is collected to prevent

the house from steaming up.

 

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Turns out that the "waste" water is distilled to a purity that it can

be used in car batteries (or the home darkroom).

 

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Now when I need to process some film, I put on a load of towels, get

a couple of liters of distilled water and I'm away.