"bleeding" between some negative frames -- development? camera?

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by todd_b|1, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. Hi,
    I am noticing that there is some "bleeding" on several of my negatives. Please take a look at the attached image.
    -- The negative densities are OK. I don't know why these look all blown out, so please try to ignore that. (This was scanned on a plain-jane scanner with sleeved negatives, I just wanted to make sure I captured the defect).
    -- I've boxed in three areas where you can see the image bleeding outside of the frame: top of both frames bleeding off the top (and off to the right for the second image). Upper left of second frame bleeding out.
    Is this my processing?
    Many Thanks!
  2. One reason may be that the pressure plate is not pushing the film tight enough against the film opening. I notice they are extremely bright areas.
  3. Massive over exposure, pure and simple.
  4. Hi Ellis, on the light table I think the densities look OK, there is some detail there. That said I am usually completely wrong. I'll scan the contact sheet when I can, my scanner can handle that (just not negatives). Massive overexposure would break out of the frame like that?
  5. AJG


    +1 for Ellis--I've seen a lot of student negatives over the years with exactly the same problem.
  6. I agree with Ellis, looks like massive overexposure in those specific areas, not the frames as a whole.
    This is normal behaviour, don't worry about it.
  7. It's halation. Happens when the sun or other extremely bright light is at the frame edge. I have a few photos like that. Doesn't matter whether the frame is properly exposed or overexposed, although overexposure may contribute a bit to the effect. Anti-halation treatments help but can't prevent extreme light sources from bleeding into the usually-unexposed frame margins. Some films and film bases are better than others, some are much worse.
    More extreme examples occur with some infrared films with light piping, which is why some IR films must be loaded in the dark. The exposed leader can pipe light well inside the cassette or rolled film. Reportedly some Lucky films during the early-mid 2000s had little anti-halation treatment and were vulnerable to this effect, but I never got a chance to try them.
    Here's an example from one of my 35mm negatives, with part of the frame edge visible. T-Max 400 at EI 800 in Microphen. I've seen this in some medium format films too, where the halation spills over into the next frame due to the thinner margins with some cameras. #1 points to the halation. The others are various types of flare.
    Sorry about the grisly content of the photo. It's all I have scanned to illustrate the halation effect. It's a deer that was decapitated by a game officer after it was accidentally struck and killed by a vehicle on a rural road.
    Previous discussion.
    Other examples of halation.
  8. Lex (and Ellis) are correct. It's a result of halation caused by overexposure in those areas. It's normal. Nothing is wrong with your camera or development.
  9. Super! Thanks so much!!
  10. I have seen this when the shutter stuck open, and so the frame was exposed for many seconds. A really bright source, such as the sun, will also do it.
  11. I think Elis has the most likely source of the problem. Have you had the camera serviced? This sort of edge light leak is likely to be a pressure plate issue. A jarring of the camera can cause this. The plate spring may be old, the plate may be slightly out of alignment or even dirty of slightly bent (this is last is unlikely, unless it got bent while open.
  12. Don't make this too complicated. Look at the other threads I linked to, and other examples you can find online. It's just halation and can occur anywhere in the frame with sun directly in the shot in an otherwise normally exposed photo; or with other extremely bright light sources in some situations.
    The pressure plate won't completely block halation. For similar reasons a closed 35mm film cassette's light seals won't prevent light piping with some IR films. I've seen this effect with all of my cameras, 35mm and MF. We just don't notice it when it occurs in the middle of the frame. No particular need to worry about the pressure plate unless there are other indications that it's out of adjustment and film flatness has been compromised - such as obvious focus problems on the same plane with a fast lens used wide open, which may indicate film buckling or curling, or irregular lines around the rebates between the frames and edges.
    The phenomenon was first noted in a 1901 publication and, while undesirable for most conventional photographic uses, has led to the development of other products such as 3M's optical lighting film. Over the decades of film development various bases and anti-halation coatings were tried to minimize the effect. The distinctive blue-green dyes that are readily soluble in water with some European films (notably Efke several years ago) were the anti-halation coatings. Kodak and Ilford anti-halation coatings are less water soluble but I've noticed they seem to be more soluble in highly alkaline developers. However I'm not sure whether the purplish-blue offal is anti-halation, sensitizing dyes or both.
  13. It is normal with back light shots where the subject is in shadow or indoors.

    Hp5+ is a high dynamic range film you have merely exceeded its range by some margin.

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