Black or not, M4?

I saw this black M4 on ebay and the seller insists his 1384*** serial is black

paint and not black chrome. He's even pointing to Gandy's site to prove his

point. I told the guy I own a earlier 1380*** serial and I know it's black

chrome. So does anyone know when black paint was switched over to black chrome

on a M4. Gandy's site only assumes it happened when the M5 was launched in 1971?

So was it after 1286*** serials? In the end, does it really even matter? When it

involves $$$ people get so crazy and wacky...<div></div>

Black paint vs anodize does matter, and typically black paint is more rare and valuable. I know the camera that you are referring and the images clearly look like anodize. Leitz's black paint was a glossy finish and looks quite different than anodize.

 

The Leica site used to provide confirmation of black paint vs black anodize, but that feature is gone. Stephen Gandy's list doesn't have enough granularity for distinguishing paint vs anodize.

 

If in doubt, don't bid.

 

There are plenty more reliable sources (www.keh.com, www.camerawest.com, Rich Pinto's Photo Village) for the real thing.

 

...Vick

I agree it looks like black chrome. My listing in the Hove pocket guide reads "schwz" for "black"; but black paint cameras are identified as "lack" for "lacquer" meaning paint. "lack" M4s are in the 1,200,000 range in my serial number listing.

The last of the original run (1967-71) of M4 cameras were made in black paint ending at 1286700 in early 1971 (mine is about 50 from the end) . The limited production re-introduced M4 was made only in the new 'black chrome' starting at serial no. 1380001 a few years later in response to photographers request.

 

Besides the 'black' paint or chrome difference, the re-introduced camera has the new M5 style self-timer and frame selector with white paint marker, and black strap lugs (the original M4 the only BP Leica with chrome lugs). On the majority of original BP M4 the shutter dial and outside of the film rewind was anodized black with the center flip-out lever on the rewind black paint, and with the 'R'/arrow engravings (unless replaced later). Some examples, early and others (M4-M...) had all painted rewinds. A few other variations like the self-timer/selector caps...

 

Of course with Leica anything may be possible, and they could have made a BP 'later series' M4, and I do think I remember seeing one at one time (original?), but from the serial number it should be, and from the photos it does look - black chrome.

 

Hope that helps,

I have a 1384*** and it's black chrome. (FWIW).

Gianni Rogliatti's excellent book, "Leica - The First Sixty Years", first published in

1975, shows the subject Leica as "schwarz". <P>Quoting Rogliatti, "...production

officially stopped in 1971 with serial number 1,286,700; however late in 1973 it was

decided to make another small number of black M4's, finished in the new black

chrome, which had been developed for the M5's from both Canada and Wetzlar.

Late production Canadian M4's in black chrome were actually engraved with Leitz

Canada wording, whereas earlier cameras assembled in Canada carried "Wetzlar"

engrave top-plates."<P>The seller is using Cameraquest as a reference but when

one goes to CQ the listing doesn't say black paint just black. Me thinks that the

seller is not trying to pull a fast one, he is just confused. I sent the seller the above

information.

With all due respect to the seller, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

Unless it has been redone in BP (I doubt it), it is most definitely a black chrome camera.

Leave this soon to be shrink-wraped, mint-, original 'L' sealed, boxed object to the collectors.