best flashto buy for skateboard photography(sports)using a hasselblad 500cm?

hello everyone could you please help me with what flash to buy when i

am using a hasselblad 500cm with a fisheye adapter ive made, i have

looked at the Metz 45CL-4 or should i buy 2 vivitar 283

flashes? thanks for all your answers and help

Forget the Metz 45CL-4 IMO and the V283. The V283 is okay but there is too much guessing IMO w/ its control system. I've acquired a Metz 44mz-2 shoe-mount w/ easy control/feedback system ($249). The Metz 44mz-2 can also be used in TTL mode later on w/ proper module.

 

You might want to consider an inexpensive Sunpak MF bracket, add the Metz 44mz-2 and good to go. Best, Paul

The 285 Vivitar is one of the best action flashes ever made because of its size and flash duration at full power. I'd stay away from the Metz gear for action stuff. Go with a Sunpak 555, and shoot it at 1/2 to 1/4 power, or go with a set of vivitar 285s if you can find them. They hold 1/1000th of a sec at full power. Flash duration is crucial for skateboarding work. Also, I use a couple of sunpak 433's at 1/2 power and they work great. I use q-flashes for my main lighting, but those are a bit costly. Sunpak 555 and vivitar 285's have been skate staples for years. The flash duration on the Metz I have is crap, but I'm not sure about that model. Not the best for freezing action. I use it as a background fill for that reason (45-ct1).

Stay away from flashes with slow durations (sometimes difficult info to come across, but it's one of the most important pieces of info for a sports shooter).

The Q-FLASH!!! If you are doing skateboard photography, you want to go with Quantum's Q-Flash. Lot's of skateboard photographers use it. It has multifunction features and you could use it as a stand alone portable strobe unit. But they are not cheap. Strobe with battery will run you about 850.

I agree on the Q flash. I've been using one since 1998. It's the best for the money, but you could buy 2 sunpaks for $300 and a q-flash for $1000. If you're on a budget start small.

 

Also, if you did go with a q-flash, I'd steer from the smaller models that operate from the turbo and go to the 400 w/s model. Of course that's more money.

 

As for the metz Paul recommended....steer clear of that for skate stuff. At full power it has a duration of 1/200th while the 285 Vivitar holds 1/1000th at full power. You have to go to 1/4 power and lower with the metz for that. No offense meant to Paul, it's just not ideal for this purpose.

Thanks Jared for the info and I'm sorry if I misled the skateboarder. I used the V283 and the V285 for years and finally got fed-up w/ the guess work of the controls. My Metz has a full display and I really like it for my work, which is more portrait oriented. I'm not a flash guru however, preferring to do mostly available light. Recently I'm more into flash since I have a 2 year old and am steering clear of PJ style pix with him.

 

I imagine skateboarding is fast moving. Haven't done it in years. I'm wondering how the boarder/shooter is going to focus so fast w/ H'bld? I guess thats another story.

 

Lastly, maybe my brain fried from Rage/Machine and RB, but I don't get how 1/1000 is longer than 1/200 sec? Isn't 1/200 hold on a full charge longer, in which case the Metz is more powerful, no? Thanks Jared.

 

Paul

<i>

"...but I don't get how 1/1000 is longer than 1/200 sec? Isn't 1/200 hold on a full charge longer, in which case the Metz is more powerful, no..."</i>

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In this instance, it's not just about power, but usable power in a short-sharp pulse duration to freeze the action. Think 'Harold Edgerton' and his milk drops photos.

Thanks, Todd, point well taken. I thought the guide number was the over-riding concern? By your explanation, I guess its both the guide number AND the length of flash? Thanks.

Paul -

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I'm in over my head a bit, as I don't do this sort of work. The principle involves enough GN to do daylight fill, and a short flash duration to freeze the 'fly bys'. This is a tricky 'coffin corner' design issue, since as you point out, one hallmark of a really honking strobe is a long duration.

<P>

In another thread where nathan was pursuing this Q, Charlie Xia posted some nice examples of the genre:<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2494453">http://www.photo.net/photo/2494453</a>

<br>

Once you see what they're going for, it kind of 'gels' the thinking on overcoming daylight/shadows and freezing action at the same time.

Duration and guide numbers are two very different subjects. Guide number refers more to light output than the duration of that output.

 

Some people think a flash in itself is enough to stop action, but that's incorrect. Skateboarding and other action sports are fast moving, and to get sharp photos, you need a fast duration to stop the action. A flash with a high guide number may not have a fast duration at that guide number. Theoretically you want to always shoot action at a power that lets you have a duration of at least 1/1000th of a second. Faster is good. If you shoot fast action with a duration of 1/200th, you stand a good chance of motion blur. This principle also applies to anything moving. I know basketball shooters etc are also very concerned about flash duration.

 

As far as fussing with the settings etc. action sports shooters, myself included, almost always use hand held flash meters. I even use it for digital. In roughly ten years of shooting this stuff professionally, I've never used a flash on ttl for anything more than a quick headshot. It's simply not effective to hold lighting rations on moving subjects in the situations we have to shoot in. For that reason a flash like the vivitar is just fine.

 

As far as focussing a hassleblad, it's all in prefocus. The same goes for autofocus as TTL. I almost never use autofocus, unless I'm shooting an event, but even then I just use it to prefocus. I shoot Bronica (when shooting film), not Hassy, but it is the same concept. The shot is set up before hand, composed, lit, and then it all goes down. A lot of planning.

Very interesting and I thank you for the education. In my field of interest, namely street/photojournalism/portraiture, I like the blur and often slow my H'bld or Leica down so I can get that motion look.

 

I use a Sekonic Flash Master L-358, even with the Leica M6TTL when time is available.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time for the explanation. Its appreciated. Paul

Paul Angulo Says: "I imagine skateboarding is fast moving. Haven't done it in years. I'm wondering how the boarder/shooter is going to focus so fast w/ H'bld?"

 

 

Paul, if he is shooting with a Fisheye, focus is not a problem

a couple of things:

 

skateboard photographers have their own tricks to focus properly, using a HasselBlad, or

whatever camera and/or lense they are using. Not too smart saying focusing with a fisheye

is not a prblem... man, of course you need to be really accurate foucsing no matter what

lense you use... and specially with the fisheye!

to start off you need to know exactly where the trick is going to be done, and what

moment you are going to shoot. that's one of the most difficult things about skatebpoard

photography, it takes a while to get it, not easy at all. Normally you ask the rider to stay

for a moment on the place the trick is going to be shot, and from the angle you've chosen

to shoot it (specially with the Blad camera). It's a hard work of small details, that have to

be done really fast and accurate. One of these details failed means the photo will be not

good.

true about the speed duration of the flashes. that's where most of the novice

photographers fall off, durations must be the fastest possible, what means you have to

reduce flash to 1/4 of it's power. More than that will ruin your photo 99% of the times,

since the rider will be blurry.

 

back to focusing,

i have to insist skateboarding photography is not one of those things like weddings etc.,

where you have your digi camera on autofocus and your flash on ttl.

You have to control manual focusing when you do sequences, cause autofocusing doesn't

work 90% of the times on skateboarders. Why? too fast for the camera. It will probably lost

the subject and focus on the background in the middle of it.

 

I think skateboard photography is one thing that mixes many aspects of different types of

photography altogether.

Maybe somebody can help me, but why do you need two sunpak 555's? arn't they a handle-mount flash, and not really an off-camera flash per se?