best canon for under $500 (G12, Rebel?)

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by raul, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Hi,
    For years my wife and I had SLR, she a Nikon, I a Canon, but it's been long since we used film and now we have a simple point and shoot, and we miss terribly a SLR, or something more pro than a Coolpix.
    I'm seriously thinking on getting a G11 or 12, love the designs and dials... but she want something more like a traditional camera, big lens, etc... so in that price range I find the Rebel. I know the big difference is the possibility of changing lens, but truth be told, I'll buy one lens and that will be all.
    How well one can control depth of field on a G12? That is something really important to me.
    So really I'm looking for some advice, I'm kind of lost.
    What would you recommend in the $500 price range?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. [[How well one can control depth of field on a G12? That is something really important to me.]]
    If selective and narrow depth of field are very important, then a digital point and shoot is not the right tool for the job.
    For $500 you can find either a new Canon XS, which is a fine entry-level camera, or a number of other used Canon DSLR bodies, depending on how much wear and tear you're willing to put up with. :)
     
  3. If I am limited to $500 or less and only G12 or Rebel, I'd choose the G12 right away
    However, if you choose the Rebel, later you can ask your wife for more money to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade,...
     
  4. Mmm... John, I won't put much faith in that future, really!
    I had my mind fixed in the G12... I see that it also captures good video, while the Rebel can't.
    Is there a way to search in the gallery for pictures taken with a particular camera?
    If brand is not a limitation, what other camera will enter the options pool? What about all this new 3/4 mirrorless cameras?
     
  5. The 4/3 (just like the Rebel) have much better sensor but initially already over $500 and you will need to add up many things later which makes it way more expensive
    I do have faith that you will be able to ask for upgrading money, but I can't say if that's a good thing to do
     
  6. Raul,
    I too am looking for a new camera and the SLR feeling has to be there.
    I have narrowed my choices to the Canon G12 and a Panasonic G10 ( the later being an interchangeable lens camera) the Canaon has a 1/1.7 cmos sensor and the Panasonic has a micro 4/3rds sensor, much larger than the Canon.
    The only thing holding me back from the Panasonic is that I lean towards the Camera only manufacturers ( Pentax, Canon, Nikon ETC) but I really like the Panasonic from what I have read.
    I have had the G12 in my hands and WOW for a little camera.
    A store in my area was kind enough to allow me to put my Gig card in it.
    I do find the Canon to be short on the long end for my likes. but if you want to go with just that len it may work for you.
    I could not take the camera outside so I shot through the glass door
     
  7. Half the max zoom
     
  8. full zoom
     
  9. Wow, really unspectacular results from that G12. Maybe dynamic range correction would have helped in the first. The third is very washed out, so AutoLevels helps in postprocessing. I am really spoiled by out-of-camera results from my Fuji EXR cameras.

    Raul, here is a comparison widget. Just substitute the Canon 1000D (XS) for the LX5. The 1000D is not superior to the G12 until ISO 1600 in my view. Furthermore they are using the 50/1.4 prime for this test; the 18-55 kit lens would be worse.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q42010highendcompactgroup/page12.asp
     
  10. Full zoom better after postprocessing.
    00Xlkt-306903584.jpg
     
  11. had to leave before I got to post 2 more I took.
    be aware I did not do much with settings. I took a few in auto and a couple in manual and didnt want to be "playing" with their camera too much.
     
  12. snowman Christmas gifts
     
  13. last one and I apologize about the size but wanted you to see it in its original form.
     
  14. snowmen
     
  15. Christopher, thanks a lot for the pics, and don't worry about the size, that is exactly what makes them valuable!
     
  16. Thats what I figured Raul.
    I dont do much if anything with Post processing. I am not a professional. I just like taking pictures of what I see so the camera has to be set right when I use it.
    this G12 on auto just as a point and shoot is obviously not too good based on Bills response.
    looking at the full sized photos you can see a lot of problems with some of the items not centered in the photo. I think I have become too accustomed to the Pentax's AF and Metering modes that I dont worry about stuff like that.
    thats why I want a camera with a larger sensor and DSLR like functions. would love to get my hands on the Panasonic G10 before actually pulling the trigger.
    Most stores only have Nikon and Canon stuff in stock where I am and Camera stores are very few and far between where I am located. maybe a day trip to Manhattan is in order...
     
  17. I would not expect the 1000D (Rebel XS) to be any better without post-processing, in fact it is likely to be worse. The indoor pictures Christopher posted are just about ideal - I can't easily improve them. I think the problem with the three zoom photos taken outside the store is that they were taken looking into the light. Contre-jour as the French call it. By the way, what is the fuzzy wiring stuff hanging down from the ceiling in the wide angle (first) image?
     
  18. If you're looking for shallow DOF, impossible with the G 12.
     
  19. I think you make a mistake is sticking with the 'old camera builders' these things are largely electronics now and Panasonic are highly respected in that field. To me the G10 is the obvious choice even if you will only get the standard lens to go with it. I understand the G's only have optical viewfinders which is so 'old fashioned' and useless, except for those who love them, I wouldn't have a camera that wasn't live view EVF .. had them the past eight or so years :)
     
  20. That is Panasonic G10 not Canon's G10/11/12 :) Walmart $499 today.
     
  21. Bill, I like the G12 a lot, but THAT is a killer point to me...
    What is the Nikon equivalent to the Rebel?
    ...and what about the Nikon Coolpix P80 / 100 / 110? They are a lot cheaper... I don't know...
     
  22. Bill, that may be lathe for the stucco protruding through on the facade.
    or, if they have it draped over the store name so birds dont nest in between the letters
    IDK for sure
    Raul,
    the Coolpix, Kodak etc super zooms are great for all in one cameras. great focal range but they still work off a 1/2.3 ccd sensor.
    going from Film to that will disappoint you when you crop and blowup pictures. dont get me wrong, I love my Z612 but it is limited on a creative, IQ level
    00Xlpv-306953584.jpg
     
  23. Z612 zoom
     
  24. Z612 zoom
     
  25. The Nikon P7000 is competitive with the Canon G12. I do not follow low-end P&S models, so I can't say anything about the other Coolpix models you mention.

    D3100 is Nikon's least expensive new DLSR model. It seems superior to the 1000D (XS), for example it supports HD video, but it costs more. The shallow-DOF argument is a bit specious because unless you are willing to spend additional money on a portrait lens, you aren't going to get smooth backgrounds from a cheap 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens. I like the Nikon one better, but it has awful out-of-focus rendition.

    If you want telephoto, Nikon makes a 55-300 lens for APS-C, Canon does not. However Canon's pro telephoto lenses are generally less expensive than Nikon.
     
  26. Pentax Kit lens 18-55mm
    00XlrB-306977584.jpg
     
  27. I dont know why its called a kit lens but that stick bug was shot with the 18-55 MM lens that came with the K100D.
    seemed to capture the stick bug and my deck railing pretty good
     
  28. I bought a Canon G10 a few years ago and I'm delighted with it. It's compact, the picture quality is excellent and suits me fine.
    Downside - it's noisy at high ASA (in the thousands) but that isn't a concern with me.
     
  29. Best Canon under $500? Canon 1D "Classic". If you are only printing up to 20x30, the 1D will work just fine!
     
  30. If you want compact with interchangable lens, I would get the Panasonic G1 with 14-45 lens ($399 at Amazon). Or you could get it with the 20mm prime lens (equivalent to 40mm on 35mm film) and that is a great-looking combination. You can even get an adapter for $30 to use your Canon lenses on it.
    I have the S90 (still available but now superceded by the S95) which has the same sensor as the G1x compacts and from all reviews matches them in all but the more extreme settings. I am still surprised the quality I can get from it at letter size (screen or print). And the advantage over the G1x series is that it is small enough to fit in your shirt or trouser pocket (the G1x is more of a jacket pocket size).
     
  31. Another vote for the G1 + 14-45mm lens. It's light enough to carry all day and will print to a decent size. My only caveat is limited lens availability. $399 if still available is a bargain (by UK standards).
     
  32. I have a G12 and love it to pieces, but I use it to supplement my 7D. I had a G11 but my significant other adopted it to use in place of the 40D she sold. She runs a small newspaper and uses the G11 for her cover shots and for advertisement pictures, and is quite happy for the time being using it, but desperately wants a 7D and will likely get one soon. The G12 is an excellent choice for an only camera for general shooting, but for more specialized shooting I prefer an slr. You might look at Rebel T1i prices as well. That's a very capable camera and I believe it can be found at decent prices. I've never tried the Panasonic but haveno doubt that it's super as well. It's hard to make a bad choice in today's market.
     
  33. For those of you who own a Canon G10/G11/G12, how often do you use ahotshoe flash?
    One of the things that has attrached me to the G12 over the S95 is the option to use a hotshoe flash. However, I wonder whether I would actually use a hotshoe flash that often. I already own a 430EX and 580 EXII so I'm thinking I might use the 430EX with the G12, but want to make sure my theory will carry out into practice.
     
  34. Looks like for the kind of photos I want to take, the rebel with lens are better... but I have the feeling that the G12 have better controls than the Rebel? Or is just me?
    Can I buy the body alone and look for another lens? In B&H looks that the Rebel XS comes only with a lens, not body alone.
    Well, Amazon have the body alone, but not a lot of savings, like $70.
    Any comment on Tamron telephoto lenses?
     
  35. Raul, you will be happy with a G12. The good thing with the Rebel is that you will have a very long way to go, you will always see something else better to upgrade, faster lenses? longer lenses?, wider lenses? L lenses? prime lenses? another body? another flash? battery grip? ...
     
  36. Raul, I started with a 40D three years ago and upgraded to a 7D about six months ago. During the last three years, I have found the DSLR hobby to be quite expensive because (as John notes) there are a lot of "accessories" you can buy, and by "accessories," I am including battery grips, spare batteries and chargers, lenses, flashes, filters, and cases.
    To answer your question about Tamrom telephoto lenses, I have a 28-300, which has become my walkaround lens of choice. It is a great piece of general purpose glass. However, in retrospect, I would consider the 18-270 VC instead as the wider angle probably would come in handy more often than the extra 30mm on the long end. I believe Tamron is offering a $150 rebate on the 18-270VC through the end of this month.
     
  37. Really I don't worry about all the extras. My previous camera, a canon elan 7e, had only one lens, something like the Tamron 28-300, and a IR remote control (cheap), and the usual UV filter and a circular polarizer, that was all.
    I don't like to carry a lot of lens and stuff... both my grandparents were photographers (with dark room and all) and I know how out of hand all can be. I still have old stuff around my home.
    I really would choose the G12, love the design, the controls... but I look and look and can't see a use of DOF in any G11-12 picture... all nice and sharp... and faking DOF in photoshop is so not funny...
    But I also think that I will be unimpressed with the rebel... or maybe not?
    Sheess... this is hard.
     
  38. J. Polk--I got the Speedlite 270EX for my G12. It's quite small but surprisingly powerful, and allows bounce flash to boot. I've even used it on my 7D a few times and as ridiculous as that looked, it worked well. The hotshoe on the G12 is a nice feature/capability and the 270EX paired with the G12 makes an impressive combo.
     
  39. Joe...thank you fofr saying ASA
    :)
     
  40. at

    at

    As noted, DOF on a P+S is somewhat limited. But...so is a typical DSLR with an entry level kit lens (f3.5 - 5.6). You can control DOF with a fast aperture lens...a long lens, etc. Rarely included at that price point.
    My vote would be the G12 and the Canon ex270 flash. I use the flash often on my g2, g3, and g6.
     
  41. Thanks, Andy, for the info. The 430EX and 580EX II that I own are pretty hefty. I was wondering whether I would be better off with a 270EX. I would imagine that any hotshoe flash helps greatly in low light situations.
     
  42. Hey guys, I'm leaning towards the G12... but I just saw this Sony NEX-5K, I know is more expensive... but anyone has any comment on it? This attracts me:
    "Background Defocus" Control
    Cameras with APS-C sensors take beautiful pictures because they can blur the background. That helps make your subject stand out as the center of attention in portrait photography. But you've had to know about aperture f-stops and shutter speeds. Now Sony makes it easy. Simply turn the Control Wheel one way for backgrounds in focus, the other for background defocus.​
     
  43. You can search for image samples of "sony nex background defocus" on the net, most of which were posted on DPreview. I believe all this does is open the aperture wide, but because the Sony 18-55 E has much better bokeh than other 18-55 lenses, results look good. Some cameras do background blurring in software, and if you can get it to work, it's not bad.
     
  44. Mmm... there is a filter adapter for the G12!
    I think that settles it, UV and Polarizer are a must have for me, and opens a lot of extra possibilities (macro filters, etc). I just saw some test pics and it has a decent DOF, I think enough for me.
    Thanks for all you comments!
     
  45. Just a heads up that yesterday Fry's Electronics ran an ad for the G12 at $100 off ($399). Price is good through 12/16/10.
     
  46. I'm a little late to this conversation, but I just bought a G12 after my G10 locked up. The repair cost was 40 percent of a new camera. But the way I bang it around and use it to pound nails and pry open beer cans, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
    But:
    Is there a comparison between a Rebel and a G12? A dslr is a dslr. With the G12 the max aperture is F8 unless I push it. There's a max in and out zoom.
    i use this as my back pocket camera -- although I actually keep it in belt pack -- for when I'm not carrying my big stuff. My G10, rest it soul went everywhere, even places it wasn't supposed to be and paid its freight. but it wasn't a dslr.
    I have to admit, the image stabilization on the G12 is magnificent. I tend to tremble even when I'm not tired and a monopod has been the rule or a surface with a towel. But I shoot this one from my eye and it's quite crisp.
    It gets back down to the formula, what do you want to do and how big do you want to do it.
    h
     
  47. Thru the years, the Canon G series has produced results that are often better than a low-end kit-lens Rebel DSLR of the same vintage. The pre-IS 18-55 lens was poor, and the current IS model has bad color fringing in the corners. Of course the DSLR can do more stuff.

    Today, the DPreview studio comparison widget shows the G12 comparable to the 1100D (T3) until ISO 800, and the 1100D has the advantage of 50/1.4 prime lens. In the field, the G12's faster lens would make it use high ISO much less frequently than a f/5.6 kit lens would require. Also the G12 lens is 28-140 versus only 29-88 for the kit lens, so the DSLR misses some shots.
     

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