Beginner looking for a camera

Okay, I am looking for a reasonably priced (sub 300 american) film slr camera with which I hope to learn photography, inside and outside of school, as well as take very nice pictures of Mountain Biking and scenery.

 

I would love to hear any suggestions you may have.

 

Also, it has been suggested to me that a Canon EOS 620/630 would be a good choice, and I have done some research into them - I'm wondering, how much of an issue is the sticking shutter that seems to be epidemic in these models?

 

Thanks a lot in advance,

Cam

Oh - I was just checking out the Nikon FM2, I'd previously thought it was out of my price range but I appear to be wrong. This looks like a really nice all-manual camera - what do you think?

 

Thanks,

Cam

If you've already determined that the problem is epidemic, is it really a good idea to start with a camera that could cause you problems?

 

My personal opinion, for the money you're looking to spend, get a Rebel 2000 or Rebel Ti and the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens. Getting the camera body only will be cheaper, but if you want to have the ability to play with a moderate zoom, you can get the kit with either. The included lens isn't a great lens, but it's not bad if you are just learning.

 

I also recommend taking a photography class.

Yeah, I'm taking a photography class at school. I just thought that it might be a more cost-effective to get a used camera, plus I suppose that learning would be a lot more effective if done on a more manual oriented camera (not the 630/620 but the FM2/FE2).

 

Thanks for the reply,

Cam

Get an Olympus OM-1 (or OM-1n) and a 50mm f/1.8 lens. This camera is <i>fully</i> manual with <i>no</i> auto option (very important when you're trying to learn, but you probably don't believe me!). It does take a mercury battery, but this only runs the light meter - camera itself is 100% mechanical, so you could skip the battery (you <i>do</i> want to learn, right?). These cameras are small and light (for a camera made of metal rather than plastic), and are easily found on "that auction site" for your price range.

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OK, I'm biased towards Olympus! Any all-mechanical fully-manual camera would be fine in principle (but you must ask yourself this: would it be as <i>good</i> as an OM-1?).

Hi Cam-

 

Nikon FE2 or FM2, 50/1.8 lens - can't beat this combination for starters! Then you're in the Nikon system, and can just grow from there, adding extra lenses, other bodies, move into AF when you want to...basically has it all.

 

Good luck!

Olympus OM-2n with a 50 (1.4 or 1.8).

You will love it.

You can use it fully manually or you can flip it over to aperture priority mode when you feel you want to go that road.

Excellent camera.

That shutter problem is something that can be fixed with a little care and work.I'm more concerned about the horrific focus capabilities on those models.If going for canon,get a later model-such as the eos 500/rebel Xs or better.Even the cheapest SLR cameras these days have allmost any mode you may want.As for the older manual/semi auto cameras some here have recommended-they are,well,different.With older cameras it's a case of being FORCED to understand the settings and what they do.Also a big attraction of older cameras is the nice metal feel-some people just prefer them.I like them alot too but these days i've learnt that modern AF/motordrives/auto exposure/ability to focus in total darkness are things **WELL** worth having.I cheat and keep an old metal camera just to hold occasionally

Cam, Find and buy a Pentax K1000 35mm camera. This camera while older

will help teach you Photography on a students budget. It's rugged,

simple, easy to use, cheap to buy and VERY easy to find accessory

lens and equipment for.

 

I own several Pentax cameras as well as other brands. The Pentax K1000

is the one I use most often when I need a simple rugged camera. I really like the ease of match needle simplicity when I'm in a hurry.

Point, match,focus, click.....I have my picture every time.

All good advice above, but just consider that you can do everything manually with a good, current AF body like the Nikon F80, and you have the bonus of having a spotmeter on board, you get grid lines in the viewfinder when you want them, you can use all current lenses (and they don't have to be a zoom either). I came to mine from 30 years of using various manual Pentaxes, including an SP1000, a K1000 a K2 (manual with aperture priority), and an MX. I use mine with full automation sometimes, full manual often, and many combinations in between, depending on the situation. I'm just posting this to help dispel the notion that you have to have an old, used manual mechanical camera if you're learning. That's just bunk. A modern AF camera is just as good if not better. The main thing is the lenses (the camera body really doesn't matter that much), so get some prime lenses instead of a zoom.

ALL the major brands produced good manual focus, manual exposure SLRs. Don't let someone tell you, you MUST get a Nikon (or, Olympus, or Canon, or Pentax, or Minolta, for that matter). Each of these brands made perfectly good cameras that would suit your needs. Nikon and Pentax have the advantage of a mostly compatible lens mount across both manual focus and autofocus cameras, which allows you a nice upgrade path if you choose to go that route. Minolta and Canon FD, however, might have better bargains available in manual focus lenses because of the LACK of AF/MF mount compatibility. Olympus has basically stopped making film SLRs, so it is a dead end brand, but the cameras that they DID make in the OM series are absolutely superb instruments that might well have been the best ever. But used lens availability and cost will not be nearly as good as the other brands.

 

I DO recommend a camera that has both manual focus and match-indicator manual exposure (but it DOESN'T have to ONLY offer manual exposure, if you have the mental discipline not to use the auto-exposure until you actually understand what it's doing for you).

 

Some great recommendations, in FULLY manual cameras (focus and exposure) - with the caveats I've listed above kept in mind:

 

Nikon FM, FM2, FM2n

 

Olympus OM-1, OM-1n

 

Minolta SRT (any SRT, but 102, 202, and 303 have the most features)

 

Pentax KM, KX, K1000, MX

 

Canon AT-1, FTb-n, TX

 

 

Cameras also offerring automatic exposure control as well as manual:

 

Nikon FE, FE2, FG

 

Olympus OM-2, OM-2n

 

Minolta X-700, X-570 (my personal favorite for a tight budget)

 

Canon AE-1, AE-1 Program, A-1

 

Pentax ME Super

Almost any of the previously-mentioned older all manual cameras would be great. (I'm personally biased to Nikon, so I'd vote for the FM2...a great camera...but many others are good, too.)

 

However, two warnings:

 

1) Avoid anything that takes an old-style mercury battery (like the Olympus OM-1 mentioned above) because you can't buy those batteries any more. Yes there are workarounds that you can do to use the camera, but they will cause you headaches. Why bother when there are other options?

 

2) Don't fall into the trap of thinking that a modern auto-everything wonder will give you the best of both worlds. While it's technically true that you can use an autofocus camera in manual focus mode, it's no fun at all. AF cameras tend to have crappy little viewfinders compared to MF cameras that were designed _specifically_ to be focused manually. (Similarly, manual exposure mode is usually much more of a pain on a superautocamera than it is on a camera designed to be used that way.) After many years of photography, I still prefer doing everything myself to trusting the camera to think the way I want it to. And this is even more important when you're starting out.

 

Good luck!

IMHO, the Mercury Battery issue is a NON-issue. The workaround is cheap and trivial: You can use 675 Zinc-Air Hearing Aid batteries. They are VERY cheap and widely available. The battery chamber is easily adapted to them - Just get a simple rubber washer called a #9 O-ring (available at any hardware store, such as Home Depot, for Well under $1), and stick it in the chamber.

 

There is no reason to forego a great old mechanical camera like an OM-1 or SRT just because they use these batteries.

...I'm leaning towards the FM2n right now, but as much as I want to learn properly and quickly, is there any chance that I'll be at a disadvantage shooting sports with a manual focus camera? Also, how bad are Canon AF models such as the ElanII, EOS 630, or EOS RT in respect to their manual modes?

 

Thanks so much for all of the replies,

Cam

If I were you, I'd get an FE2 for the same money as an FM2. The FE2 is just as easy to use manually as an FM2, plus the aperture priority automation WILL be an advantage in sports shooting.

Arron;<br /><br /><i>While it's technically true that you can use an autofocus camera in manual focus mode, it's no fun at all.</I><br /><br />Not true.<br /><br /><i>AF cameras tend to have crappy little viewfinders compared to MF cameras that were designed _specifically_ to be focused manually.</I><br /><br />Not true. <br /><br /><i>(Similarly, manual exposure mode is usually much more of a pain on a superautocamera than it is on a camera designed to be used that way.</I><br /><br />Not true.<br /><br />

-- A happy user of an old, all-manual SLR, and a new, all-auto SLR (which I use exclusively in manual focus).

Actually Aaron, Backshooter is just about the ONLY person I know of who believes those things are not true.

Douglas,

 

Tell us about your experience using a modern, auto SLR. Did it bite you? Did it fall on your little toe? How long did you use it? You must have had one for many years, because you have formed such a strong, and lasting hate for all of them, even ones you have never tried. Got any pictures you made with it, so you can prove how crappy it was? Show us the evidence.

Yo BS: I've owned and used a Nikon N80, N90s, and an F100. I still own and use the N90s. The pictures come out fine. But it is (and the others were) a royal pain in the rear to use in manual focus, manual exposure mode. I now ONLY use it when I NEED autofocus, and in general, I only use it in automatic exposure mode. I MUCH prefer shooting with my Nikon F3 and my Nikon FG cameras when I wish to focus manually, and when I wish to meter manually. Why is that? It is quite simple. It is because these OLDER cameras are vastly superior ergonomically to any of those newer Nikons when manual focus, and manual metering techniques are being used. And, BTW, the construction quality, and ergonomic response when focusing, of my manual focus Nikon AI lenses blows away the Nikon Autofocus lenses as well.

Yes you will be at a BIG disadvantage shooting sports with an all manual camera.I must agree with backshooter.Sure,manual focus,etc is nicer to use on an old camera that's designed for it but using a modern camera in manual mode is ok...it's certainly not a big problem

Douglas,

 

you've identified that the Nikons have inferior ergonomics. I admit I've never used one, so I can't respond to that (modern Nikon users, please feel free to jump in...).

 

How about all the other makes and models? My opinion in the matter is more than a 'belief' (unlike yours), it is based on my experience with almost daily use of both kinds of cameras. My all-auto, mostly-plastic SLR system is a joy to use in all respects, in particular because it is so light weight. I do not have any problems with using it in manual focus, as I've stated that's my preferred mode anyway.

 

Do you perhaps have a vision or coordination problem, such that you can only comfortably continue to photograph with gear that you are familiar with from years of use?

 

Even if that is the case, you really should stop harassing people who inquire about purchasing a new SLR with your silly and unfounded prejudices, because you are potentially misleading those who don't know any better, and making yourself look like an old curmudgeon who keeps repeating the same boring falsehoods over and over to the rest of us.

 

At the end of the day, it's about the pictures and not the gear. Both kinds of cameras can be used to take great pictures.

Nikon FM2 is a fine camera to learn on, and has a good range of lenses and accessories out there, so it's a good system that you can grow with.

 

An OM-1 is also an excellent choice for a good learning camera - plenty of them out there used, but a little more pricy for lenses and a little less easy to find stuff than the Nikon.

 

That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with Douglas Green. Don't let brand be the biggest factor in your choice - instead, see if you can't find a way to handle the cameras and find out what body works best for you, whether it's a newer autofocus camera or an older all manual body, or anything in-between. While I certainly encourage you to learn on a manual or "mostly" manual camera, if a newer camera works better for you, then go for it.

 

Let us know what you choose and how it works out though. :-)

Actually BS'er, I am perfectly capable of adapting myself to using modern cameras in ways that they were not optimally designed for. Unlike you, however, I have the common sense to use instruments that are superior for such a purpose (i.e. fully manually controlled photography). It's simply stupid to force yourself to use an instrument that was not optimized for that task, when better tools have been available for years. If you wish to be stupid, so be it, but there's no reason to assume others must share in your stupidity. I never said that the automatic cameras were not good picture takers. They are, when their automation is understood and used in the manner it was designed. And I DO use them for that - specifically when shooting high speed action photography, where the speed of a computer chip does a better job at approximating the proper focus point quickly than I could in setting it more exactly, but also more slowly in manual mode. But there is no reason to use them in ways that they are less good at (such as manual focus), when a manual focus camera is available for a pittance and is ergonomically superior for that task, simply because the viewfinder and the lens focusing mechanisms were designed with that as their primary job.

Ouch...

 

The reason I suggest a beginner looking to learn to use a manual is two-fold. First, I do find that many, if not all, modern autoexposure cameras aren't as intuitive to me when you want to use manual settings. It certainly can be done, but it isn't always as easy. A big part of that all comes down to what you've learned on.

 

Which brings me to the second point. When you're learning, you should be REALLY learning - not letting the camera make the decisions for you. With an autoexposure body, it is all too easy to let the camera make the decisions - which it will often do wrong, or not with the result you want. A manual camera helps get you into the habit of evaluating the exposure for the shot every time to get the desired effect - something that it is easy to be lazy about with an automatic wonderbody.

 

Of course, the auto bodies have their use, as has been said - usually when you don't have the time to manually set the camera.

 

The newer wonderbodies will give you more adaptability - when you need the automatic functions, they'll be there. I just think it is too easy as a beginner to use them and not think about exposure or what the camera is really doing.

<I>It's simply stupid to force yourself to use an instrument that was not optimized for that task</I><br /><br />Douglas --<br /><br />No force required, just spin a couple of little wheels on the top of the camera and presto! Nothing could be easier, or simpler -- <I>for those who know how</I>...<br /><br />If you need lessons, you know where to find me ;-)