B/W processing just starting out.

<p> So recently I thought I would like to shoot some film as I miss it. It's been a few years so I figured I would shoot a roll and send it to Dwaynes. I have done that but when I figured out the overall cost it came out to $21.00 for a roll of Delta 400 (no scans or prints). That would be film+processing+shipping both ways and even the envelope was 75cents. I figure I am a week or more away from the negs back however I am working on a fresh roll of Delta 100. So I decided that I may as well plunge a little and I ordered up a tank and chemicals to give a try with processing film. So far I have only $63.00 invested.. Thermometer, timer, containers are all around the house.<br>

My first outing is Delta 400 and 100. After I see how it scans I will probably give HP5 a go and see how it compares. I am planning on shooting Illford film at first. However I figure Delta and HP5 kind of covers it pretty good. I will work with those films while I learn how to develop and control my negatives. </p>

<p>So far a Paterson 2 reel tank for 35mm<br>

I also ordered the chemicals in a mix of Illford and Kodak with the primary focus on buying stuff that can ship via mail. I am starting out with Illford developer instead of Kodak which may be a bit different. </p>

<p>At the moment I do not have any questions but I will later on if I run into any difficulty. You-tube has a pot full of how to B/W videos. This does kill my business with Dwaynes. No issues with them but I want to be independent and I figure processing the film will be fun if my wife does not get tweaked about the mess. I do clean up after myself. </p>

<p>Welcome back!</p>

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<p>Thermometer, timer, containers are all around the house.</p>

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<p><strong>Do not use cooking utensils for photography. Do not use photo utensils for anything but photography.</strong><br>

Mixing containers, string paddles/rods, measuring cups, thermometers. The thermometer should be accurate to within 1°F. A good basic thermometer http://www.target.com/p/taylor-digital-instant-read-pocket-thermometer/-/A-533893#prodSlot=medium_1_59&term=thermometer<br>

Use filtered or distilled water for mixing chemicals and rinse water for processing. I use a Pur water filter.<br>

Avoid spills. Wipe up any chemical spills immediately and wash the area with plenty of water. Many use the bathroom for processing. I use my kitchen sink. Extra care must be taken not to contaminate the work area when processing in the kitchen.</p>

<p>You will need a light tight work area to load the developing tank. Change bags are available. I prefer a Photoflex Changing Room http://www.adorama.com/PFCR.html<br /><br>

Process your first rolls at manufacturers published time/temperature for your film/developer. You may need to change development time or camera exposure to get optimal results. Published times are starting points that should produce consistent usable results.<br>

Take you tube videos with a grain of salt, some cut corners, others omit steps that are not absolutely necessary. Ilford's processing instructions are good with the exception of squeegeeing the wet film at the end of processing. Squeegees can easily scratch film even when using extreme care. Use a wetting agent at the end of the final rinse. http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf<br /><br>

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<p>I was not going to use cooking utensils. I just have a lot of stuff like that and it will be designated strictly for the film projects. Actually one of the videos did cover that point which is significant.</p>

<p>I was figuring on sticking with the manufacturer information as I would not know what to change up anyway. One of the reasons I went with Illford developer is the product description included specific information for the 2 films I was going to shoot at first. Probably just stick with those and try HP5 also as it has a different grain type. I will see how it comes out. Scanning with my Plustek and Silverfast 8 is the plan. </p>

<p>Thank you for your valuable input. </p>

 

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<p>Welcome back!</p>

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<p>Thanks, it should be fun. I still have a F100 and a 50mm lens. Not much but I will see how it goes. </p>

<p>BHPhoto already shipped my order and free shipping to boot.</p>

<p>Good luck and have fun. I'm still sending mine out. My wife would kill me if I started with a lab and chemicals. Still haven't emptied all the moving boxes since we moved in 2013.</p>

<p>Lots of darkroom equipment is available between low cost and free on the used market.</p>

<p>I don't see anything wrong with kitchen equipment, but yes, don't put it back in the kitchen.</p>

<p>My favorite for a long time are the little plastic containers with snap on lids. I use these to keep the chemicals that I am about to pour into, or to pour the tank into at the end of a step. Well, I first started using those with E6, with six or so steps. Also, kitchen measuring cups are fine for most measuring tasks. </p>

<p>I suspect that a dishwasher would get them clean enough to go back to the kitchen, but mine never do. Ordinary black and white chemistry isn't all that poisonous, and is water soluble enough. Color chemistry is worse for you.</p>

<p>I recently got into it as well, and for now settled on Delta 100 and Tri-X 400, but for the latter you can just as well use HP5 really. The only thing I found with HP5 is that I really did not like it in Rodinal at all (which was the developer I had, to start with), while Tri-X so far seems to be fine with other developers I tried since (HC110 and ID11). Delta 100 results have been fine with any developer, as far as I am concerned.<br>

It's fun figuring all this out, even if a lot of members here probably forgot more than I managed to learn. But well, that's how it goes. I still get a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when the tiny images come off the reel. Something magical about that moment.</p>

<p>Thanks for the friendly responses. I am looking forward to learning about the film development and what will work to give me a nice satisfying image. I am going to Santa Cruz today and will be carrying my F100 with Delta 100 in it. It's exciting sort of. We were going to Natural Bridges, Jacks burgers, Logo's records and book store, Harts fabric store and down to Dog beach by the Lighthouse and walk up to the Natural bridge for photos if the tide is out. <br>

I have an extra thermometer (actually 2 of them) that are no longer used in the kitchen and was going to process the film in the bathroom and then just clean up and put the stuff away in the garage afterwards. Plastic containers are not a problem and I am sure there is an extra measuring cup around. If not then I will just pick one up at Target.<br>

However I am retired and need to have some things to do. I ride bicycles almost every day but it's not enough. I will have 4500 miles in this year which is an improvement of 3200 miles last year and 2000 miles the year before. Before that I did not have a gadget to measure the miles and other things of cycling interest. I use a Garmin which is great and will use it also as my developing timer. </p>

<p>A darkroom is to much however and I will be scanning the film. I was figuring Delta film because I think that maybe it will be friendlier with the scanner but I actually do not know until I try. I will try Tri-x and HP5 of course. Grain that you can sand wood with is probably a bit much but I will find out soon enough.<br>

I just have the one roll of Delta 100 right now and I do not want to shoot it all today as I am going to Cambria in a few days and would like to shoot some there. I am not going to Hearst Castle as I have been there enough. At the moment I am wondering why I did not order more film from BHPhoto yesterday but since I did not I may as well wait and see how the Delta 100 and 400 turn out before committing to more film. Hoping the 400 speed looks just right as the speed would make it more versatile. </p>

 

<p>Wow, too little coffee...<br>

What I meant to write: HP5 and Rodinal to me looked pretty awful (extremely visible grain), in ID11 and esp. HC110 it is perfectly fine. Tri-X worked fine for me in all 3 developers, so that's why I bought a decent supply of Tri-X for now (instead of wasting time getting used to a multitude of films, I'm trying to focus with 2 films and 1 developer, and get better at developing, full stop; playtime is over :-).</p>

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<p>Thanks, it should be fun. I still have a F100 and a 50mm lens. Not much but I will see how it goes.</p>

 

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<p>The f100 is a fine camera and the 50mm is an 'eye' lens.....as in it's the focal length that best matches what your eye sees. If you are a visual person that can 'see' a picture before them.....it's the lens to use.</p>

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<p>Wow, too little coffee...</p>

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<p>Exactly what I want to do..One developer, 1 or 2 films and keep it simple, have fun and produce some nice photos with it. </p>

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<p>The f100 is a fine camera and the 50mm is an 'eye' lens.....as in it's the focal length that best matches what your eye sees. If you are a visual person that can 'see' a picture before them.....it's the lens to use.</p>

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<p>It's always been my favorite lens and they are usually affordable and light. The F100 kind of takes away the light part but at one time I had a 70-200 f2.8 zoom and that thing about put me away with the bulk of it. It did not take long before it hit the closet permanently. <br>

I was shooting the F100 along with a D200 for a time and had quite a few lenses. Film processing became to difficult and I used the D200 all the time. The limit of ISO400 did not bother me to much as I was accustomed to that. However eventually I gave the entire D200 kit with multiple lenses/flash etc to my son and bought an Olympus EM5 that I still own. However I kept the F100 and the 50mm because I figured maybe I would use it again at some time.<br>

The F100 is in ex+ condition and I am just going to shoot it. I am not going to buy another lens for it. I would like to try an M6 sometime but they are kind of expensive. I would want a meter so that is really the only model I would want. The new stuff is priced out of my world. </p>

<p>Thank you for your response.</p>

<p>Exposure, developer, processing technique, chemical temperature and rinse water temperature being within 5 °F of one another affect the appearance of grain as much as the film. <br>

A correctly exposed negative will scan well. Negatives that are within 1 stop of correct usually are easy to correct and get good scans from.<br>

I find HP5+ grainier than TriX. Some expose HP5+ at EI200 and process normal to hide the grain.</p>

Reminder that ICE does not work when you scan BW

film. Spots, etc. must be removed in post.

<p>Ross B, remember the F100 will operate all the new lens electronics......like the VR functions and 3D focus. This is an attractive feature; FILM + new world tech.</p>

<p>If you do get hooked on film again, you might want to start making your own chemistry. I do and digital has no real cost advantage anymore.</p>

 

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<p>Exposure, developer, processing technique, chemical temperature and rinse water temperature being within 5 °F of one another affect the appearance of grain as much as the film. <br />A correctly exposed negative will scan well. Negatives that are within 1 stop of correct usually are easy to correct and get good scans from.<br /> I find HP5+ grainier than TriX. Some expose HP5+ at EI200 and process normal to hide the grain.</p>

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<p>Thinks for the tip and I will try very hard to have precise chemical and water temperatures. As far as exposure goes I always do my best in that regard but sometimes it is just not going to be spot on. <br>

I was in Santa Cruz today and stopped at Bay Photo Lab. It's been a long time since I have been there but I thought they may have some film. Actually they have a lot of B/W film so I purchased a roll of HP5. They only process C41 for several years now. </p>

<p>On Thursday my wife and I are going to Yosemite just to see it in the snow and I was going to ask about permits for backpacking and see if it's possible to get one sometime. I have heard it is near impossible but I will find out if the office is open. I will take some photos of Yosemite in the snow with the remainder of my Delta 100 and then the HP5. I have a #12 yellow filter. It's about 150miles from the house. We are going to drive both ways on Thursday as we need to be home for the family gathering. </p>

<p>Thanks for the temperature tip.</p>

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<p>Ross B, remember the F100 will operate all the new lens electronics......like the VR functions and 3D focus. This is an attractive feature; FILM + new world tech.<br /> If you do get hooked on film again, you might want to start making your own chemistry. I do and digital has no real cost advantage anymore.</p>

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<p>I am fine with the camera the way it is and was not going to buy a VR lens. I have not heard of 3D focusing but I am fine with the focus as it is. <br /> I guess I probably will not be making chemicals but it does sound pretty cool. Good for you on doing that. Pretty amazing. <br /> I am not going to shoot color film again in my life. Just B/W and color stuff will be with my Olympus that does have the most amazing vibration dampening system. I have not experienced a shutter speed to slow with the camera. Of course the subject needs to be inanimate and I usually have the camera out for family photos. I have six kids and a bunch of grand kids and son/daughter in laws so family shots are frequent. It's awesome having so many loved ones about. <br /> Not one of them gives a hoot about a photo print. It's the new world of cell phone pictures and facebook.</p>

<p>Yosemite tomorrow instead of Thursday. It will be fun. </p>

<p>It's been a while since I shot at ISO 100 and had to stay with it. I could have used a tripod a few times even outdoors..I have one but did not take it as it's aluminum and it hurts the hands to carry the thing around when it's 20 degrees. However the HP5 was more versatile as far as light went. Yosemite was beautiful and I found some nice light up until about noon. I finished my roll of Delta 100 and got 20 shots into the HP5. Not much to do now but wait for my chemicals and give it a go. I am going to Cambria on Monday and I will finish the HP5 on the trip. With only about 15 shots left I will be stingy with my snaps. It might rain on Monday but we will go anyway. I do not have any more film and want to develop and scan everything before I decide which way to go. Probably the 100 speed is out due to the inflexibility of the film. Only one camera body so your stuck with a roll until it's finished. I will choose between HP5 and Delta 400 and stick with my choice for a while until I feel like I know something. </p>

<p>"kitchen measuring cups are fine for most measuring tasks.<br>

I suspect that a dishwasher would get them clean enough to go back to the kitchen, but mine never do."<br /><br />I agree. I have a few measuring cups, pitchers (used for mixing) and big plastic spoons (used for stirring chemicals while mixing) from the kitchen that I use in the darkroom but they are all very clearly labeled "PHOTOGRAPHIC USE ONLY" and have never been back in the kitchen once they found their way to the darkroom.<br /><br />I have used many bathrooms as temporary darkrooms over the years, but I have never developed in a kitchen. Maybe B&W chemicals aren't going to kill me but it's not worth the risk. To paraphrase an old saying, don't develop where you eat.<br /><br />I have always considered Tri-X and other 400 speed films my standard. Slower films might be sharper and finer grained but I find that those advantages are offset by longer shutter speeds and wider apertures and issues shooting in low light. Today's 400 speed film, especially Kodak Tmax and Ilford Delta, have grain as fine as the 100 speed films of when I started out 40 years ago.<br /><br />Ross -- don't be stingy with your film when you're starting out. First thing you should be doing is bracketing your exposures. The camera meter isn't going to nail it every time, and better to have shot one frame at the indicated exposure plus one over and one under as backups. And "work the subject" by shooting different angles, distances, compositions, etc., especially when you're traveling 150 miles to get there.</p>

<p>Thank you for responding Craig. I just ran up to Target a bit ago when my wife told me that I could not use any of her extra stuff because it belonged to her Mom. I said fine and bought a timer, measuring cup, thermometer and some plastic jugs that are also have measurements on them and lids. I have a plastic bin that I will keep it all in when not in use.<br /> Yesterday at Yosemite I just shot what film I had really. I still had a few shots left but the light was not that great at noon so I just stopped. We generally make a trip to Yosemite each winter, spring and once in the summer as it is close enough and I have a senior pass for admission. I do not really go there for photography that much but I do always take a camera. I have so many pictures of the valley already it's not a big deal to me. In the spring we are going to grab a motel so that we can do some hiking. We both enjoy a day hike and are going to Point Lobos for a short hike tomorrow. I have a Lifetime Senior Pass for National Parks, and I have an annual pass that I buy each year for state parks. Most of our hiking is at Pinnacles National Park as it's only 30miles and my senior pass gets us in for free. It's an awesome park for hiking.<br /> I did a little bracketing yesterday especially with half dome as I caught it in good light, a tree covered in snow in the forground and the valley floor covered in snow. Nice clouds so I shot a half roll just on that moving around and bracketing. It was on Delta 100 and I was able to shoot at 1/60th and f/8 and f11 using a yellow filter. Hand held with the F100 and a 50mm lens works out great at 1/60th for me. If I do not ruin the film with my first shot at developing I will probably test the shot with a larger print at 16x20 to see how it holds up. Generally I print at 4x6 as the walls are filled with stuff.</p>

<p>I will post up a few more times to relate how the developing went and a couple photos good or bad for those that are just starting out or interested. <br /> I will develop my first roll on the 5th. With Target shopping today I probably have $100.00 invested in the project. Not bad for the fun and interest of B/W photography.<br /> It did occur to me yesterday as I was at the 3 sisters pull out at Yosemite that I was the only person there that was a bit different. Maybe 20 photographers there with tripods and high end digital camera's shooting away. Not sure why they needed tripods to shoot in the noon sun but they did anyway. Because the light was poor I kind of decided against the grand view and went for scenes that were of a close in type shot.</p>

<p>Would love to go to Yosemite someday but I'm on the East Coast. I hear some good photos have been made there. :) <br /><br />I'd be a little cautious about a kitchen thermometer. It's not going to have the accuracy of a darkroom thermometer. The Weston I used for B&W is accurate within 1 degree and the Kodak Process Thermometer I used for color is accurate within 1/4 degree (and I have three so I can check them against each other). Might be close enough for B&W, which is pretty forgiving, but I would replace it with a real thermometer before you get much further into this.</p>

<p>Craig, I recently picked up one of these http://www.target.com/p/taylor-digital-instant-read-pocket-thermometer/-/A-533893#prodSlot=medium_1_25&term=thermometer<br>

It is very accurate and proved both of my dial photo thermometers are off by 1.5°F to 2°F which I had suspected by the under developing I was getting. I measure my filtered water into a 5 liter cleaning bucket once I get the temperature to 68°F. Mixing HC110 from the filtered water puts it spot on temperature wise. Fixer and photo flo are within 5°F at room/storage temperature.<br>

I would not use a tube type thermometer from any store other than a photography store.</p>

<p>I marked all my kitchen/household type utensils Photo Only with a permanent marker to aid in not getting them confused with regular household/kitchen utensils. </p>