Attaching non arca Swiss quick release clamp to arca Swiss monorail z1

Discussion in 'Beginner Questions' started by sanjay_chaudary, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Okay, that's a better angle. It is definitely a reducer bushing. To remove it, just insert a screwdriver into the screwdriver slot (yes, that's what t's called) and turn it until the reducer starts to move.

    If it's too tight, go to a hardware store and get a 3/8 inch bolt and medium grade loctite.. Rub some loctite to the inside of the bolt you just bought and screw it into the bushing. Wait 20-30 minutes for the loctite to set, then use a wrench to remove the bolt you just bought. The bushing should come right off.

    Then you can follow the you tube video to remove the plate.

    Good luck!
     
  2. I think the problem is the screwdriver slot is on the bottom (the end near the head's top plate) - presumably because it was screwed into something else, and stayed on the head when it was unscrewed. If it was the other way up, you could get a screwdriver on it.

    That's a good idea. (I'd just grab it with pliers, but then I wouldn't be fussed about messing up the reducer!)

    Indeed. Although I still maintain that the socket wrench should fit over all of this anyway, so the presence of an additional bushing shouldn't make any difference unless you want to use the original top plate again. Except that if the bushing is really solidly wedged, the bolt may come out when you try to take it off, without you needing the socket wrench!
     
  3. Kirk confirmed that my older quick release clamp ( knob type from kirk) did come with adapter bushing and it got stuck on the ballhead.
    I was able to remove the bushing from the ballhead with a pliers.
    The last time, that I tried to remove with a 11mm socket wrench, I could not loosen the nut. This was with the bushing in place.
    Do you think that the hex nut might be attached using locktite?

    Do I need to observe any precautions while trying to remove the hex nut ? I would not want to damage the ballhead .
     
  4. Phew - mystery solved! Thanks.

    I'd be astonished if it wasn't. They don't want it coming unscrewed in the field. So yes, you'll have to crank it quite hard.

    I did mine with pliers on the upper screw and just cranked it - using a hex wrench is luxury. But then I was doing an Triopo RS3, which was a quarter of the price of a Z1. Other than "hold the head firmly and make sure the ball is solidly clamped", I don't think there's anything special to do. That head is designed to have a 6kg lens hanging off it at arbitrary angles without wobbling; it's going to be pretty robust.
     
  5. precision works replied that loctite is applied on hex nut. How do I remove the nut in this case ?
     
  6. Unless it's Loctite red, which you have to heat up to soften (I think that's unlikely, and you're as likely to hurt the head by heating it as anything), the loctite will just make it hard to (begin to) unscrew. In other words, just turn it harder. I'd expect it to hold the bolt in place against accidental loosening, but the anti-rotation lugs on the plate should be doing the heavy lifting, so I wouldn't expect it to be hugely over-engineered. Certainly the RS3 on which I replaced the head initially resisted, then turned, in the manner of conventional threadlocker.

    If the bolt was typically held in with exotic heat-dependent threadlocker, I'd expect someone's instructions to have said. Otherwise, give it some welly and it should come loose. These things are carefully machined to behave well when a lot of force is going through them - while I wouldn't resort to whacking it with a hammer, I think you'll have to go some to hurt it.
     
  7. You need to apply heat and lots of it. I would assume that AS used Red loctite (permanent) and you need to heat it with a heat gun or a butane torch.

    Some say that a hair dryer works but not if it’s red loctite. You can try it for starters. And you will need a correctly-sizes socket wrench. I would not recommend using brute force without pre-heating the bolt. You risk stripping it.

    PS - Andrew posted before I finished writing my post. My assumption is that red loctite was applied to the threads. If it’s blue or a lesser type, then high heat may not be required.
     
  8. Ah - that's unfortunate. I figured they couldn't possibly be using red loctite because the instructions posted earlier in the thread didn't mention heating, and the non-Arca head whose clamp I replaced certainly used the regular kind. But PG's assertion makes me less sure of myself.

    According to the instructions on the loctite/Henkel page, you need to hit 550°F to soften red loctite. That's a lot, which is why I was worried about damaging the head (at least any paint/coating/lubricant/Teflon pads) unnecessarily. If you've already been in touch with precision works, I'd say check one more time that they don't mean this kind of thread locker (it's not the end of the world of you break the bolt - there are reverse drill bits designed to dig into a headless screw or bolt and unscrew it, but it would be annoying).

    I'm still 90% sure it'll be normal thread locker and you can shift the bolt with brute force - but I was 99% sure before PG's post, so maybe it's worth checking. I am, after all, only a well-meaning idiot on the internet, not a qualified Arca technician.
     
  9. Hi, precision works informed that I need to apply heat to it before trying to remove it. Their charge to replace seems reasonable - 20 USD + return shipping. I need to check if the warranty will still be valid after modification.

    Regards
    Sanjay
     
  10. I'm astonished, but okay. I'd let them do it, since they're offering and you're concerned (especially if it's really the permanent loctite, because getting it that hot is borderline dangerous).

    I'll be interested if you report back on the warranty. I'll be surprised if Arca honour it - I would expect clamp replacement not to be what they expect users to do, especially since they'll sell you one with a clamp, and they'd be responsible for repairs to an item with third-party parts on it, but I'm losing my confidence to apply logic here!

    On that note, when I was looking before, the Kirk clamps appeared to be screw clamps; is that correct? If so, given your other concerns, I'm surprised you didn't just order an Arca ball with a screw clamp on it. I understand going with a third party lever clamp (given my brief bad experiences with the Arca design), but a screw clamp is a screw clamp, and the Arca one on my d4 and the £20 Triopo one on my ball head are roughly equivalent in my book. It's not a product that I consider to be complicated enough to merit a premium version.

    So if you're already paying someone else and you're worrying about warranty, I wonder if you're better just trying to exchange for a head with an Arca clamp and give up on the Kirk clamp.

    But they may honour the warranty, and I may be unnecessarily concerned.
     
  11. Maybe I’m being pessimistic but once that mod is made I doubt that the warranty would still apply. At this point I would definitely send it in and let them do it, especially for just $20. You should probably also send in you clamp and let them attach it just to make absolutely sure it is attached correctly.

    This is exactly why I bought the integrated AS QR plate with my AS Monoball even though I have a few Wimberly QR plates lying around. Sure it costs more but I wanted make sure everything was tight especially since I use the Monoball to support a Wimberly Sidekick and a 200-500 and D500 plus flash.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    Andrew Garrard likes this.
  12. Thanks for your help. I had couple of kirk release plates , which I use for my cameras and lens - 3 to be specific . I wasn't sure if the integrated clamp ball head model would work . Got a fourth plate recently. Have a canon 400mm f5.6 lens. The bodies are eos 3 , eos elan 7 and pentax 67ii . All film bodies - doubt plates are available. I feel the plastic surface around the nut on arca is too smooth and causes the play. Manfrotto 490 has a rubber mat with checked pattern and that provides friction. It is not completely effective but helps a bit
     
  13. Will kirk plates fit tightly with arca clamp ? I prefer knob type clamp .
     
  14. Arca flip clamps have an adjustment knob that lets you adjust the clamp to slightly different sizes of plate. Of course, this is still annoying if you have plates of different sizes. I believe the RRS flip clamps have a design that avoid the need for adjustment.

    However, I too prefer knob clamps - which is why my d4 has an Arca knob clamp. (As I said, I hate the Arca flip clamp design, which has shredded my nails every time I've tried one. YMMV.)

    This is the Z1 with Arca's knob clamp. Don't be freaked out by the dual-level design: the lower level is for the new "monoball fix" plate which Arca is trying to push, probably because everyone cloned their normal plate; the upper layer is for normal Arca (and vaguely compatible) plates. I've not noticed any reduction in strength from the dual-deck design - there's probably less metal in the screw holding the head on the tripod. The design does mean there's no safety insert to stop the plate sliding out - but I mostly find those annoying when inserting the plate, so I don't miss them (at least, I've not dropped anything yet - clamped is clamped).

    There's nothing all that special (IMO) about the Arca screw clamp, but then I don't believe there needs to be anything special about any screw clamp.
     
  15. Just to be clear, as far as I know screw clamps of any kind will be fine with any plate - I've not met one with so little tolerance that they didn't handle all plates. All three Arca-style screw clamps I own (actual Arca d4, Triopo and Joby) work with all my plates, be they budget ones from eBay, RRS feet, or the X plate from Joby.

    IIRC it was originally Wimberley that made slightly out-of-spec plates and I've never tried one of theirs - but I could be wrong about the history.
     
  16. Just for interest, I happened to stumble across the old flat plate and attaching nut from my ball head (I was digging out my lighting stands, and it happened to be in there). If it helps (Sanjay or other viewers), here's an image of the removed central screw, with the back of the plate (so you can see the anti-rotation slot) in the background. You can see a bit of thread lock still on the threads of the screw; the thicker bit on the far side of the hex nut "collar" is, I think, the 1/4" thread for attaching to a camera, and the longer section with the thread lock is, I think, M6. Again, this is from a Triopo RS-3, not an Arca head - but I strongly suspect they have a lot in common.

    DSC_9465_DxO.jpg
     
  17. I just sent an Arca-Swiss Z1+ to Wimberley to have them remove the top platform (done free of charge) and install one of their C-12 clamps (blemished) for $52 plus shipping. I tried to remove the screw myself but couldn't. Wimberley informed me that it requires heat for removal and that an impact wrench works the best to break the screw loose.
     
  18. Thanks, Alan. And fair cop - if Arca have really decided to use "permanent" loctite, it sounds like a harder job that I had with the Triopo, and I'd be slightly more nervous about doing it myself as well. I'm just surprised that the RRS link didn't mention it, but if I correctly (half-)recall there being a point in time where Arca made it harder to do replacements, maybe the difference was that they changed their type of loctite, and the RRS video predated it.
     

Share This Page