Assistance is first 4x5 for Landscape

I am looking to get my first 4x5 camera. My main focus will be landscape from hiking in the mountains to that special spot. I am looking in the used market and always have resale value in mind. I have been considering a Wista Field 45DX in Cherry or Rosewood and a Linhof Master Technika classic. I am a newbie at LF so thoughts and recommendations are welcome. Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Mike Hoffman

My go to lense is a 90mm on a Toyo field camera. Durable but heavy.

Check out Blue Moon Photography. They carry a lot of used LF equipment.

If you are a 'newbie' at LF, I would recommend you get an LF on loan to try out. The process requires the patience of a hindu cow, and the movements/symmetry etc do not necessarily come naturally to beginners. The camera you mentioned is superb and full-featured, but it will require time to set up and adjust. The one problem I have noticed with the Wista is discolouration of the brass fittings and arms (like rust); it is not a camera that takes kindly to use at the beach or high humidity, and definitely not in visible salt spray or rain.

The 90mm lens would be a useful "all-rounder", while a 65mm would give you a very, very wide view with a corresponding requirement to have a strong foreground "principal anchor/lead-in" rather than a swathe of nothingness. And a light meter will also be required, either for textbook readings of the scene or go int the deep end and become a Zonista! And lots...and lots of holders: nothing is more infuriating that having a beautiful scene in front of you and the last holder with the last sheet of film is all that is available when you just know that you want more.

My own LF is a [Honduran mahogany] Ebony SV45TI with 90 and 65 lenses and 10 holders (currently with a member of staff interstate). This is quite enough to cart around, even on light walks. For spontaneity (something that will quickly prove to be absent with LF!) though I prefer the Pentax 67 or Hassie 503CXI. A thorough grasp of lighting, exposure and compositional metrics would I think be a requirement, with foundation in MF and manual metering (handheld metering). How far you go in building it up depends on how badly the bug has bitten you! LF lenses are no longer made by Schneider-K or Nikon, so the used market is a good place to start. No shortage of films to choose from in B&W or colour, but if you do not process colour yourself, individual sheets of LF film often turn out to be the same cost in processing as a roll of 120 film! That is certainly the case where I am ($8.70 per roll of 120 film vs $11 per sheet of 4x5 — E6).

If you are a 'newbie' at LF, I would recommend you get an LF on loan to try out. The process requires the patience of a hindu cow, and the movements/symmetry etc do not necessarily come naturally to beginners. The camera you mentioned is superb and full-featured, but it will require time to set up and adjust. The one problem I have noticed with the Wista is discolouration of the brass fittings and arms (like rust); it is not a camera that takes kindly to use at the beach or high humidity, and definitely not in visible salt spray or rain.

 

The 90mm lens would be a useful "all-rounder", while a 65mm would give you a very, very wide view with a corresponding requirement to have a strong foreground "principal anchor/lead-in" rather than a swathe of nothingness. And a light meter will also be required, either for textbook readings of the scene or go int the deep end and become a Zonista! And lots...and lots of holders: nothing is more infuriating that having a beautiful scene in front of you and the last holder with the last sheet of film is all that is available when you just know that you want more.

 

My own LF is a [Honduran mahogany] Ebony SV45TI with 90 and 65 lenses and 10 holders (currently with a member of staff interstate). This is quite enough to cart around, even on light walks. For spontaneity (something that will quickly prove to be absent with LF!) though I prefer the Pentax 67 or Hassie 503CXI. A thorough grasp of lighting, exposure and compositional metrics would I think be a requirement, with foundation in MF and manual metering (handheld metering). How far you go in building it up depends on how badly the bug has bitten you! LF lenses are no longer made by Schneider-K or Nikon, so the used market is a good place to start. No shortage of films to choose from in B&W or colour, but if you do not process colour yourself, individual sheets of LF film often turn out to be the same cost in processing as a roll of 120 film! That is certainly the case where I am ($8.70 per roll of 120 film vs $11 per sheet of 4x5 — E6).

Thank you kindly for your reply. I have experience with manual cameras is years past and am reacquainting myself with the zone system.

Its a learning process I am looking forward to. Thx again..MH

Thank you kindly for your reply. I have experience with manual cameras is years past and am reacquainting myself with the zone system.

Its a learning process I am looking forward to. Thx again..MH

Sorry, to continue with my reply, I too have a MF set up a Hassy 500c/m with a 50mm and 80mm lens. Transition to LF will take some but thats fine. Thanks again for acknowledging my choices of equipment are worthy of the investment. I process my own B/W and color reversal film which will help offset the costs.

Thanks for the lens suggestions and I will continue to search the use market .. MH

Buying a new LF camera will be like flushing money down the drain. There are plenty on the used market at all budgets, and you'll likely recoup all your outlay if you buy used and later resell.

For hiking I'm tempted to recommend something wooden and lightweight, but then you're going to need a sturdy tripod as well, and lightweight cameras tend to vibrate in the slightest breeze. A metal technical camera like the Linhof is a good compromise between weight and stability. Expensive though. There are cheaper alternatives.

You'll need double-darkslides. Get Toyos. I have a number of Fidelities that have warped and become useless. Toyos seem to be made of a plastic that's more stable.

Any lens shorter than 90mm might present difficulties with a rigid-bodied technical camera. There's a limit to how close you can get the bellows and still retain lens movements. I'd see no point in using LF without the ability to shift or tilt the lens. Of the Nikon, Schneider and Rodenstock LF lenses I own, Rodenstock are the sharpest. A 90mm Grandagon and 180mm Sironar.

You might want to consider a 120 or 135mm focal length as a first landscape lens. They're easy to set up and a little bit wider than standard.

Landscapes? Wide open spaces? Broad vistas? Ultra-wide angle lens, like a 65 on 4x5? Shots that are all foreground with tiny objects in the distance. Don't often turn out well. 65 mm on 4x5 sees the same horizontal angle of view as a 23 mm lens on 24x36.

In addition, a lens wider than ~ 90 mm used on 4x5 requires a center filter unless the image's edges don't matter. With a 65 centered on 4x5, the corners will be ~ 2.4 stops darker than the center. With shift or rise, darker still. More $$.

There's a law of nature to the effect that a new user's first LF camera is always the wrong camera for the user. Cheap out, get a Crown Graphic with a normal lens (150 mm), learn the process of shooting sheet film with a completely manual camera, and find out what you do and don't like about the Crown. If you don't like it much, sell it and buy something that you can be reasonably confident will please you better.

Landscapes? Wide open spaces? Broad vistas? Ultra-wide angle lens, like a 65 on 4x5? Shots that are all foreground with tiny objects in the distance. Don't often turn out well. 65 mm on 4x5 sees the same horizontal angle of view as a 23 mm lens on 24x36.

 

In addition, a lens wider than ~ 90 mm used on 4x5 requires a center filter unless the image's edges don't matter. With a 65 centered on 4x5, the corners will be ~ 2.4 stops darker than the center. With shift or rise, darker still. More $$.

 

There's a law of nature to the effect that a new user's first LF camera is always the wrong camera for the user. Cheap out, get a Crown Graphic with a normal lens (150 mm), learn the process of shooting sheet film with a completely manual camera, and find out what you do and don't like about the Crown. If you don't like it much, sell it and buy something that you can be reasonably confident will please you better.

Dan,

Thank you. Never really considered a Crown and your suggestion is spot on.

T

Dan,

Thank you. Never really considered a Crown and your suggestion is spot on.

he problem with this suggestion is that a press camera like a Crown or Pacemaker was never a view camera and totally lacks all back movements which, at least some, are on a view camera. So if you want the control of a view camera, as well as the large film size of a view camera, buy a view camera first.

michael

if all you need is a bigger negative a crown or speed graphic might do you well, it is like a giant point and shoot

( no movements ) except for some rise / fall. ( you mentioned you had a hassy ) some landscape shooters like

looming foregrounds &c, you might be able to do that sort of thing with a crown/speed, i have one, they are

great for non-specialized ( read no movements needed) photography and portraits. i am not sure where you are located, but i would also suggest that you rent or borrow a LF camera to see what it is like before buying something.

sometimes the bodies cost nothing and it is the lenses that cost a lot, depending on the lenses

( sometimes vintage/unooved cost less than modern )

and be aware there has been a lot of talk and problems that some of the recent toyo darslides have issues (leak light)

and have needed to be replaced... if you "google" defective toyo darksldies you might find what i am talking about.

good luck !

First, I would like to thank all of you that made your contribution to this thread. The information shared was very valuable and today, I made the plunge and picked up a Crown Graphic for my introduction to LF. This way, I can explore and decide if LF is for me and if not, still get most of my $ back. Many thanks again to all.. Hopefully in the near future I will be able to share my work.

Cheers,

MH

The Crown Graphic is a fine old camera. I shot a lot of sports with one using Tri-X. It is a very forgiving film and maybe a good one to start with.

Gawd, this thread makes me feel old!

"and be aware there has been a lot of talk and problems that some of the recent toyo darslides have issues (leak light)

and have needed to be replaced... "

- I'm not sure during what length of time there was a problem with Toyo holders. All of mine have slides made of a bakelite like material that looks identical to that used by Fidelity, and they're definitely light-tight. Although I have seen more recent DDs with a flexible plastic slide.

In any case, it now appears that Toyo have addressed the issue.

From: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-131636.html

"I am glad to inform the community that Toyo has made changes to their 4x5 film holders to resolve the problems reported here. The new Toyo CH45II (AL) 4x5 film holders have aluminum dark slides."

Incidentally, the warping of Fidelity DDs that I mentioned concerns the closure flap. The flap on quite a few of my Fidelity holders has buckled slightly and stands proud of the holder when closed. This prevents the holder seating accurately against the register of the camera. It's worth checking this if buying used DDs.

Welcome to the LF world.

Jump in . . .sure, BUT:

The advice to get a camera on loan is a good idea for your first experience in the wild. At any rate, don't go online or out to a camera shop and fill up a back pack with new stuff right off the bat. Go into it at a lower level of financial commitment and see how it works for you. LF is different from other imaging modalities and formats.

Many here will tell you to do what they did . . .coming from folks who have don LF for a while, it will all be valid advice, but each will be different. Whatever camera/lens combo you start out with will not be the only gear you ever own. Everyone's style and technique changes over time and your equipment needs will change too.

My first outing was a vacation that included two days at the North Rim of The Grand Canyon. I had a pre-anniversary Speed Graphic beater and the lens it shipped with back in 1935 (or just whenever). That, film holders, meter and everything else was packed into a Jan Sport book-bag backpack with a Star version Tiltall tripod swinging out side. I had the leather jacket and soft hat, but I was NOT Ansel Adams!

The point is that I got some great shots and got used to the minutia of shooting LF outdoors without maxing-out my Gold card. If the experience hadn't gone well I could walk away without missing a car payment. Still have that camera, but my go-to 4x5 is now a vintage Zone VI with several multi-coated lenses and a CF tripod all packed into a decent bag.

"and be aware there has been a lot of talk and problems that some of the recent toyo darslides have issues (leak light)

and have needed to be replaced... "

 

- I'm not sure during what length of time there was a problem with Toyo holders. All of mine have slides made of a bakelite like material that looks identical to that used by Fidelity, and they're definitely light-tight. Although I have seen more recent DDs with a flexible plastic slide.

 

In any case, it now appears that Toyo have addressed the issue.

From: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-131636.html

yes the issue has been addressed and some of the defective darkslides have been replaced .. all of them? i doubt it.

if the OP goes the used route, who knows what he might buy.