As you 'like' it

Discussion in 'Casual Photo Conversations' started by jordan2240, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. It's not, though I disagree with it.

    What's unreasonable and seems silly to me are the claims that:

    1) "I can write any Dylan song with my eyes closed" (it even sounds like something a kindergartner would say).

    2) "Dylan is simplistic in comparison" (And I think he's not That's called a difference of opinion.)

    3) "If you know anything about literature and poetry you should know that Cohen is the better writer." (There are probably a bunch of us here who know a thing or two about literature and poetry and don't know this, precisely because it's not something we "should" know. It's merely something you have an opinion about. This is not about knowledge or knowing facts.)

    4) "The hell with Dylan . . ." (Needs no response.)

    As for substance, I'm not about to sit here and argue with anyone who's better between Dylan and Cohen. I love them both too much to stoop to that kind of game. I'd be willing to compare and contrast them, which would seem a reasonable exercise, though not here since it's OT. But play a childish game of one being gospel, the other going to hell, not interested.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  2. Art is not at all subjective. Taste and ones emotional response to a work is what's subjective. Which of course doesn't follow that the qualitative distinction that exists between good art and bad art, great art and lesser great art, can't be objectively assessed when critiquing works of art.
     
  3. You have this tendency of constantly picking out and selectively quoting words or single parts of a sentence in order to make some non-argument. No, I didn't suggest Dylan going to hell (rolling eyes). I said Cohen is gospel as far as I'm concerned. The hell with Dylan and his...whatever.

    The way I used "the hell with..." was as the expression that it is generally used as, meaning that one doesn't care much about the subject being mentioned. It's also funny since I used the word gospel in the sentence before it. Get it, gospel-hell.
     
  4. Dylan's nobel prize was more driven by nostalgia and the cult of his persona and also as a means to popularize the prize than that it was objectively based on the quality of his writing (I mean it is a literary prize, not a most popular folk singer prize) when compared to other candidates on the list.
     
  5. LOL. If you want to stand on the semantical difference between suggesting Dylan go to hell and saying "the hell with Dylan and his...whatever," I'm happy to play along and concede the semantical point. There are some nuances of difference between saying those two things. What's not different is that they're both hyperbolic, they're both nasty, they're both unproductive, they're both non-substantive, and they both come across as childish, resentful, and perhaps a bit envious.
    And you're talking about bad writers? Oh, do look in the mirror. Yes, don't worry. I got it and I suspect many others here got it. I, for one, didn't think much of it. It was pretty transparent and non-effective. It needs no explanation or pointing to. It was unsubtle enough to begin with. Good writers generally don't have to point out their cleverness to the audience so they can be sure the audience "gets it." They tend to have confidence in the clever things they write that those clever things will come across and make their point. Believe me, yours did. It just wasn't very rich or meaningful. I suggest you go listen to some Dylan. It might improve your writing, your thinking, and your outlook on life.
     
  6. Fred, I know you "got it" the first time. Me having to constantly explain is because you're constantly misrepresenting what I said in virtually all threads, talking about trolling and being childish. Stop being such a mosquito already. I wasn't at all trying to write anything stylistically remarkable with those two phrases. Then I got the response that I don't understand what I'm talking about. Well, sorry, but yes, I certainly do know what I'm talking about.
     
  7. There you're doing it again. It's an expression, which is how I used it. You know this. So why make this non-point about it, simply to argue?
     
  8. No, it's to point out the childishness and nastiness of your using the "expression." Just because it's a known expression doesn't make it meaningful or useful to use here. Saying "the hell with Dylan . . ." in a forum like this, and in comparison to someone you claim, also hyperbolically, to be gospel, is simply juvenile provocation.
     
  9. Oh please, spare me the melodrama. Seriously.
     
  10. It isn't hyperbolic if you read it as a reaction to and in association with Allen's post above it, and which is also why I posted the Cohen song.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  11. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Pardon my ignorance, but who is this Cohen who is constantly being mentioned?

    Thank you.
     
  12. Leonard Cohen - Wikipedia
     
  13. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Ah, okay. Never heard of him, though I may have heard some of his songs.
     
  14. Vincent, here's the GOSPEL (LINK) according to Leonard Cohen. Gospel, get it? Wink, wink. Actually, one of many great songs.
     
  15. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Not my cup of tea... I made it through about 40 seconds and said, "That's enough."
     
  16. I love Jeff Buckley's rendition of the song from his album Grace.
     
  17. Supriyo, have you seen the video of the Jeff Buckley version. It's beautifully filmed, worthy of his stunning rendition! LINK.
     
  18. Yes, I saw another version of the video, not this one probably (thanks for the link). This one is nicely edited. I have the CD for the live recording of Grace.
     
  19. "Art is not at all subjective"
    That is patently false.
    Art is by definition a product of the creative perception of the artist.
    It is subject to the perception and ability of the artist who creates it.
    It is also subject to the perception and ability of the critic who observes it.
     

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