Articulated screens

<p>Why do Canon deem articulated screens not suitable/necessary for their higher spec bodies?<br>

Surely its a useful feature to have no matter what your level of ability?</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

<p>It can be argued - especially towards the more "pro" end of the camera body scale - that articulated screens are also <em>another thing to get broken</em>: they don't lend themselves to robustness and reliability.</p>

<p>Speaking personally, I'm not sure that they <em>are</em> a "useful feature". I can see the case for them in point & shoot cameras where the LCD is the only aiming/compositional device (no actual viewfinder); but because DSLRs don't work in the same way (except, to an extent, in Live View mode), I really don't get the argument for articulated LCDs on DSLRs. </p>

 

<p>A few months back I picked up a used T3i for backup to a 5D2. I thought the articulated screen would really be useful. Fast forward to now and about the only time I actually use it is to reverse it when not in use to keep the display protected. I thought I would use it for video but it's kinda small and I have a 7" lilliput monitor that I can see in bright day light. So, it's kinda like a 3% feature (rarely used).</p>

<p>I'd much rather have a high resolution EVF option instead of a articulating screen. It would be so nice to look into a EVF (similar to Camcorders) and do live view operations, review the images, delete images, etc even in the brightest of daylight light.</p>

<p>...or Canon - if you are listening - make the LCD detachable with options for small and large, touch or soft buttons, etc. Since it would be on a physical cable it will be fast and free from WiFi delays. We could then place it inside a hood, etc. I'm thinking a high speed LVDS out and slower serial back for the touch / button presses. Maybe this same thing could be shared by (or taken from the Cxxx series cameras).</p>

Contrary to Keith I see at least one advantage for articulated screens: macro photography at a low standpoint. I'd

welcome an articulated screen + live view for that. More convenient than an angle finder. But it's probably a bit more

fragile.

<p>Oh. I have a t4i and a Nex 5N with articulated screens. They are very good for street photographs particularly when used like a waist level finder on a MF camera. They are good for shooting over fences and shooting backwards out of a car window which I did a couple of days ago. They are both terrible in bright sun. I used to be a news photographer and they would have been handy in a number of situations where you don't want people to pose while they are making news. It is true that they can be broken when extended. My point is that they can be useful at times. I have seen a lot of negative comments about a touch screen but I recently shot a number of T4i portraits with studio lights and moving focus point on the touch screen is very quick and easy as well as changing ISO, exposure and shutter speed. This can all be done in the Q function by touching the screen and also firing the shutter with your head up. I found the articulating screen to be very useful in carrying out these functions. I have done portraits with all sorts of cameras for a long time and there are times when I like my head away from the camera while taking pictures and still seeing what is on the screen. </p>

<p>The 6D allows use of a wireless monitor via iOS or Droid, so along with the remote controls in the app, you can view at any old angle you please. Pretty sure new mid priced EOS will go this route.</p>

<p>I have a 60D with an articulated screen and, other than playing with the screen when new 18 months ago, I have not used the articulated ability yet. I prefer the optical finder and, in fact, the LCD is too dim to use here in Hawaii save for night shooting. I tried LV once in a moon but the main problem with the camera LCD for composition is it's too darn small. The optical fills my entire eye and blacks out distractions. I could imagine using a remote iPad or iMac for tripod use in a studio.</p>

<p>The 6D allows use of a wireless monitor via iOS or Droid, so along with the remote controls in the app, you can view at any old angle you please. Pretty sure new mid priced EOS and up will go this route.</p>

<p>I have a 60D with an articulated screen and, other than playing with the screen when new 18 months ago, I have not used the articulated ability yet. I prefer the optical finder and, in fact, the LCD is too dim to use here in Hawaii save for night shooting. I tried LV once in a moon but the main problem with the camera LCD for composition is it's too darn small. The optical fills my entire eye and blacks out distractions. I could imagine using a remote iPad or iMac for tripod use in a studio.</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts guys - I can see the 'robustness' argument. But as a keen amateur with a 7D I'd certainly find it useful for composing low angle shots without grovelling on the pavement. Maybe I'll downgrade to a 60D!</p>

<p>Oops -removing duplicate post</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Contrary to Keith I see at least one advantage for articulated screens: macro photography at a low standpoint.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I can see that one too, Jos - but because you don't get to see what the camera sees <em>unless</em> you're in Live View, I personally think that's a pretty limited application.</p>

<p>If I could use the fast phase detection AF of my 7D <em>and</em> have a live monitor feed from the VF to the LCD, I'd love an articulated screen for my <a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/041112/sanderling_newton_4.jpg">eye-to-eye wader photography</a>, but sadly we don't currently have that ability so - for now - using the LCD as a monitor with contrast detection AF is a compromise that doesn't work for me.</p>

<p>I believe that eventually the advantages of articulated screens and the increased ability to make them so that they are functional and reliable will lead to manufacturers including them on high-end DSLRs.</p>

<p>I am sure that with an articulated screen I'd take many more pictures from very low ( or occasionally very high positions. I have a back issue and bending to take a photograph within a couple of feet of the ground is very difficult. Canon seem to be putting this feature on ever fewer p&s too. </p>

<p>They are useful but fragile. That last thing you want an a camera you use in a professional application is for something to break. If you drop an EOS-1 Dx, odds are that it will survive and keep on working. Drop a "Eos-1 Dx "mk ii" which has an articulated screen folded out and odds are that the screen will break off or be damaged.</p>

<p>I suspect we <em>might</em> see an articulated screen on a 7D class camera and maybe even on an EOS 6D or 5D class camera. I would be very surprised ever to see one on an EOS-1 series camera.</p>

<p>Any camera with a live video feed from the LCD can, of course, use an external monitor. you can get small (3.5") monitors for around $25 (vga resolution). If you really need the ability to see the screen from odd angles, that's a way to go. If you drop it and break the external monitor, the camera and its LCD screen may well survive.</p>

<p>I rarely "drop my camera." ;-)</p>

<p>For professional use, replace "drop my camera" with "drop my camera because I was..." - "being run into by a 300lb line backer" or "being jostled by an angry mob" or "being shot in a war zone" or "being chased by a polar bear" </p>

<p>I rarely crash my car, but that doesn't mean I want one made out of balsa wood and aluminium foil.</p>

<p>Tools need to fit their use. If you're just taking pictures of the cat and generally treat your camera like it was made of glass, then you probably don't need to worry about the potential for damage of fold out LCD screens. Even if it breaks, your livelihood isn't affected by it. If you're shooting in the Amazon on assignment for National Geographic, you need a whole different level of reliability.</p>

<p>If you need an articulated screen, buy a Rebel or a 60D.</p>

I don't need one, but many years ago I had one on the old Pro One camera from Canon. It was tremendously useful in

certain situations. For example I could shoot in crowds by holding it over my head and still see the display. I could also

place the camera into positions that are not possible with a DSLR. I can understand the concern about durability, but

there can be compensating advantages. Besides, most desigsn I've seen permit the articulating display to be retracted for

use in those riskier situations you mention.

 

Dan

<p>Articulated screens can certainly be useful but, as always, it depends on your style of photography. I would think that macro photographers and videographers like them the most. I for one found that the swinging screen on the 60D sometimes counteracted my ambitions by making the camera substantially more conspicuous in situations where I in fact wanted to use the screen to be more discreet. Interestingly I tried a Sony NEX-7 some time ago and found its much simpler implementation a lot more attractive. By quickly articulating the screen upwards you can lower the camera to waist-level and be about as discreet as you possibly can. Hopefully a new EOS M body will have the same feature.</p>

<p>I use articulated screens with my Sony cameras. Great for macro or street stuff. In fact if Sony had a better flash system I'd do almost all my macro with Sony. At waist level with street stuff I feel less like I'm aiming something at somebody. As pointed out earlier, much easier on the back too.</p>

<p>When spring rolls around may consider a 650D (or successor) for bugs, probably too much to hope for a 7DII with an articulated screen.</p>

<p>The 6D with an IOS screen sounds cool. Not the same thing, too unwieldy, but would be nice for other applications. Can you focus with the IOS/Android app?</p>

<p>Another loud "no" to articulated screens on 1D class bodies: one more thing to break off and potentially render the camera unusable, which isn't a god thing if you <strong>have to</strong> bring pictures.<br>

OTOH a larger (say, the size of the camera body) dedicated external monitor sold by Canon and attachable to the camera body via a pivoted/moving mount might be useful but it should be sturdy and easy to stow. Such monitor should essentially function exactly like the built-in LCD for both stills and movies. There are existing external monitors but all are clunky, difficult to mount on-camera and their connection to the camera is clunky and/or limited in function. <br>

So, Canon, get cracking: gimme a high-pixel count sensor with more DR and less noise, an external monitor option plus focus peaking in a 1Ds body.</p>

 

<p>Back a few years ago I bought a SONY DSLR and was amazing surprised at the solid feel of the moveable screen. It wasn't articulating but it was certainly handy when taking overhead and grounded shots. I'd welcome that kind of window on either my 7D or 5D3.</p>

<p>All pro cameras have an optical viewfinder so the use of the lcd viewfinder is just another option. Articulated or not, the lcd viewfinder is used in certain situations only and therefore the same would apply to articulated ones. The fact that it is prone to break is no reason not to have one as the optical viewfinder would still be available. So it's not as if the camera would not be useable. Most people would not use the articulated viewfinder in situations where it might lead to damage of the camera.</p>

<p>I guess professional video people just use their equipment differently than pro photographers, because their cameras all have articulated screens. Look at the Canon C300, it's got not only a screen but all manner of cables and handles dangling off the body. And at $16,000 I'm pretty sure it's pro gear.</p>

<p>I suspect the articulated screens will be working up the camera chain, but it appears to be happening slowly. I'm surprised the 6D doesn't have one.</p>

<p>As I've said, I'd appreciate an articulated screen. However the downside I see is that cameras with this feature either have smaller screens than those with a fixed lcd. Or the camera itself needs to be bulkier to accommodate the articulated screen of equivalent size. As a major LiveView user, a smaller screen would be a disadvantage to me, and so would a bulkier camera.</p>

<p>I guess, as the oldies here would put it, I want a cake and my halfpenny.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The fact that it is prone to break is no reason not to have one as the optical viewfinder would still be available.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>But that's part of the problem, S. On DSLRs, the LCD isn't an analogue of, or an alternative to, the viewfinder. They currently serve entirely different and - essentially - unrelated functions, and a broken DSLR LCD <em>does </em>mean a broken camera.</p>

<p>Even if we end up getting DSLRs with articulated screens that serve as a complete alternative to the VF (and for the record I'd like that myself, as long as fast phase detection AF is available, or contrast detection is improved sufficently to be a viable alternative), we'll still need the LCD for access to menus, etc. If you lose that function, your camera's still busted.</p>

<p>Those arguing against articulated screens probably also argued against live view and against having LCD screens altogether. Great for overhead shots.</p>