Arista Premium film: is this stuff Tri-X?

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by dougb|1, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000003148

    I haven't noticed this before $30 for 100 foot roll. From the website:

    Introducing Arista Premium, the new line of black and white films that takes that quality to an all-new level.
    Thanks to a new partnership with a major U.S. film manufacturer, Freestyle now offers two new films that are sure
    to find a place in every photo education program.

    Does anyone know what film this is?
     
  2. Agfa made Arista II, so it may be them.

    its probably not Tri-X, but ultrafine offers that repackaged. http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ult400bwspva2.html I think??!
     
  3. it's made in the USA, are there any american manufacturers other than kodak?
     
  4. At least up 'til fairly recently most generic or house-branded film labeled "Made in the USA" was made by 3M. AFAIK, Kodak does not repackage film, tho' this too may have changed within the past few years.
     
  5. I did a bit more research to update myself on the current state of film manufacturing.

    The Imation division of 3M that used to manufacture photographic film was sold off to Italian company Ferrania. Ferrania is a longtime manufacturer of film that is repackage and rebranded, commonly found in grocery stores, drug stores, etc. Ferrania now has a manufacturing facility in Oklahoma. It's a pretty safe bet that's the source of the Arista film.

    Fuji used to manufacture film that was repackaged and rebranded for sales worldwide. They were actually the manufacturer for some of the color negative film once marketed under the Polaroid name. Agfa also made color films sold under other brands.

    Again, I might be behind the times, but as far as I know Kodak has never manufactured film for repackaging or rebranding under other brand names.
     
  6. I've used rebranded Ferrania color film before with decent results. I didn't know that they made any B&W films, though.

    They don't seem to have posted any developing information for Arista Premium yet, so there's nothing to compare the numbers with. I have a shopping cart ready to go with Freestyle and I do need to replenish my stock of bulk film. Tempting.
     
  7. At that price I may just order a roll and find out. I will wait a few days and see if they start to offer other types and sizes. In the fall Ultrafine is going to introduce some new B&W premium films also so I wonder if Kodak did stop their policy of not re branding and decided it is time to sell film.

    Thanks for the heads up.
     
  8. Like Bryan, above, I'm fairly confident that Ferrania only make (made?) color negative films. When I saw the bit about "partnership" with a "major film manufacturer" (note, it's no longer "U.S. film manufacturer" on the product page) I was thinking it might be stuff from one of the plants in China that Kodak is connected with, but "manufactured in the USA" would seem to suggest otherwise. (Then again, if the base is made in the U.S, but it's coated in China, does that still qualify as "manufactured" here?)

    I wonder if it's leftover stock of the "old" TMY, rather than Tri-X?
     
  9. Actually I was just looking at the Porter's catalog today, and they have a "Porter's ISO 400 B&W" film which says "Develop like Tri-X".
    However it is the same price as Kodak bulk roll of Tri-X.
    If this stuff from Freestyle really is Tri-X at $30 a roll then put me down for two! In fact it will be huge for our community college students to
    finally get a quality ISO 400 bulk film at these prices. Let's wait and see.....

    I was not aware that Kodak was coating emulsion in China. Let's hope that someone in Rochester is still coating emulsions....
     
  10. AFAIK, Kodak severed its relationship with Lucky a year or so ago. Ferrania's website shows only color films being manufactured, no mention of b&w. Offhand I can't think of another U.S.-based manufacturer of film. Puzzling.
     
  11. I emailed Freestyle doubt if they will tell me but I tried.
     
  12. Let's assume the wrapper wasn't the "made in USA" portion of the film! :)
     
  13. I'll tag this one more time: If you look at the list of "advisors" to Freestyle, you will see an impressive number of movers & shakers in the photographic community. Some are noted consultants to Kodak as well. This does not validate name dropping, but Freestyle would be crazy not to leverage such relationships and if the film partnership turns out to be with kodak, then whoa! fill up my freezer, again! I have purchased Arista pro 100 when it was Ilford Delta 100 and am pleased with the supply. I only have a couple of bulk Tri-X remaining, and will gladly support a vendor that supplies film & papers and forges new partnerships in that venue!
     
  14. I think Lex is right in that Kodak has never been a manufacturer of film for re-branding, but things have changed. It'll be interesting to see if they come out with other speeds or with a 120-format offering...
     
  15. here's the response i got from freestyle:
    Hello Doug, We are not at liberty to say who exactly manufactures our Arista products. I can tell you that this particular Arista line is manufactured in the USA. Thank you for the question and thank you for supporting traditional photography! Sincerely, ~Sherry
     
  16. Well That about sums it up I will get a spool and see. even if it is TMY-1 still good stuff.
     
  17. The developing data for the film should be a good indication of whether it is Tri-X, TMY, or some other film. Freestyle hasn't made a developing data PDF file available for it yet. Another possibility- maybe it is a a Kodak film that is intended for an overseas market. For example, Kodak Academy 200 black & white film is made here but sold in parts of Asia. It is nothing like Tri-X or Plus-X. It looks pink like TMAX films, but has conventional grain. I'm not sure if Kodak makes an ISO 400 film other than TX or TMY for the overseas market. The Freestyle product description mentions that there are two films, but didn't list the second one.
     
  18. "Well That about sums it up I will get a spool and see. even if it is TMY-1 still good stuff."

    Slightly off-topic but how do you tell the difference between TMY-1 and and new TMY?
     
  19. Edge Markings I figure.
     
  20. they have the dev charts up now. dev times for the arista premium 100 and 400 are the same as plus-x and tri-x respectively in hc110, rodinal, and xtol. the 100 has the same time as plus-x in d76, but they have a different time for the 400, which i am guessing is probably an error.
     
  21. Slightly off-topic but how do you tell the difference between TMY-1 and and new TMY?2TMY:

    • The box has a big red banner on it saying "World's Finest!"The film has 2TMY on it after developmentThe emulsion is brown as apposed to magenta
    TMX (T-MAX 100) also has the big red banner on it saying "World's Finest Grain!" on it, but as far as I know, Kodak hasn't updated that emulsion. It appears they just did it with some of their 400 speed T-GRAINS:TMAX 400 & Portra 400. I don't think they touched Ultra Color 400 or any of their EKTACHROME line.
     
  22. I don't know when Ferrania stopped making b&w film, but they surely made it when I lived there in the late 1950s. I used its P-3. a middle speed film for that epoch. Then again, that was a half century ago.
     
  23. I think Kodak is making some changes in their film business to keep it making money and to slow the decline in
    that business unit as much as possible.<p/>I've seen in a few places where folks would pool their money in order
    to have their own run of a particular film and size from Kodak. I see this all the time with the large format
    folks. I don't see why Freestyle, who's business is based on traditional film, couldn't do the same thing on
    their own.<p/>I've been noticing little changes here and there with Kodak. For example; has anyone else noticed
    that, rather recently, they've stopped putting development times on the inside of the B&W film boxes? I have a PX
    box that expires in 2009 which has the chart: the PX that expires in 2010 doesn't. 2TMY never had the chart on
    the inside.
     
  24. Assorted opinions.....

    1. I noticed, too, on a new box of TMY-2, no development information. I guess they save a half a cent a box times a few million, and anyone developing knows where to find that info. Not like Lucky, or something.

    2. Ferrania, AFAIK, hasn't made a B&W emulsion in decades, see Lester's comment. Ditto for 3M. And even if they were to do so down in OK, wouldn't they use their traditional channels and rebranding before going into the prosumer market?

    3. The fact that FS has the exact same development times for so many developers sort of tips the hat. Why 100 instead of 125? A red herring? I dunno.

    4. There's no way they could market either T-Max without someone finding out with their first roll. And the development times are different.

    5. I was about to order some respooled Plus-X from Ultrafine, now I'll wait to see if I can get the "Made in America" "100."

    6. Porter's prices have always been astronomical, although I've bought a lens and a few things over the years. I don't understand how they stay in busines.

    7. Don't wait around for Film Emorium to have any 5231 Plus-X short ends. I ordered last fall, they had to refund my money. Yesterday I got on the phone and the guy even "made some calls," but to no avail. 18 cents a foot, bummer.

    Plus-X forever......and certainly since the demise of Verichrome Pan!
     
  25. It will be interesting to see what edge markings, if any, these films have. Of course, short ends from motion picture film won't have frame numbers. AFAIK, the only panchromatic B/W motion picture films are Plus-X and Double-X. Many years back Freestyle did sell short ends. I have an empty can the reads: Special Double-X which was Eastman 5222 or Double-X.
     
  26. B&W movie films are also made by Ilford. Surely the Chinese, too. Fuji? Don't know.

    I had that same Freestyle 5222 back when. Still have some film cans that I marked as XX.
     
  27. I buy my 5222 short ends from Film Emporium. A few years ago they also carried Ilford motion picture short ends, but eventually discontinued them. As I recall, the motion picture version of HP5+ went for only 5 cents a foot! They even had bulk SFX. Sorry about getting off subject. Just wanted to pass the time until someone posts more info about Arista Premium. I tired googling, but only found references for Arista premium chemicals.
     
  28. I thought the 160 speed Portra film were also being improved. I haven't read anything about further improvement of the 800 speed portra film but that's pretty good already. Ilford stopped making motion picture film several years ago. I still have a 200 foot roll of the Pan F+ stock. My experience with Pan F and Pan F+ is that it lasts a long time but once you shoot it you shouldn't wait too long to develop it. If the Freestytle film turns out to be something only partially made in the U.S. that will be a disappointment. I thought I saw a new "Made In U.S.A. 125 speed film in the Freestyle film developing chart but the film itself isn't listed for sale. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the film was supplied by Kodak. At one time Fuji did not sell private label film. Now this is the film sold under the Walgreens and CVS names. The CVS film was supplied for a long time by Konica and the last version of the Walgreens film came from Agfa. Clark would periodically change its supplier. I must have Clark film in the freezer from several different suppliers. The Agfa made stock was OK at the slower speeds but I would rate the 400 film at 320 with good results. This was before the Portra and UC films were available.
     
  29. I visited Freestyle's website and noticed a photo of individually boxed rolls of Arista Premium in 100 and 400 speeds. I think I will wait until they can be ordered rather than trying a whole bulk roll. If these emulsions turn out to be Tri-X and Plus-X, I would imagine that they will quickly become top sellers.
     
  30. I will wait for more input here before I buy some film.
     
  31. I don't think it is Tri-X/Plus-X. I talked with Freestyle at great length about it because I need a 400 ASA 35mm film that can be pushed to 1600/3200. Their recommendation was Tri-X or HP5 (what I'm currently using). It sounded like Arista Ultra EDU is rebranded Foma Pan (which is one of my favorite films rated at 400), but we didn't get into much detail on the Arista Premium, other than the fact that I probably wouldn't be able to push it to the level I need for this project.

    If I misunderstood and the Arista Premium IS Kodak traditional emulsion, I'm probably going to empty my bank account into Freestyle's and fill my freezer with it :).
     
  32. Just to update the topic, I emailed Freestyle and they said the ISO 100 is expect to be in-house in mid-August......
     
  33. The Freestyle site is listing the 100 ft rolls in both ISO 100 and 400 as available.....Ron
     
  34. The Freestyle website also mentions that the single rolls should be in Aug. 15. I will probably order a couple with some other items. If this turns out to be TX and PX, I will definetely stock up. Those are my two favorite B/W films.
     
  35. I can confirm that Arista Premium 400 is indeed Tri-X. I developed a roll of Tri-X and Arista Premium 400 in the same tank today. Here are my scans from a Minolta Dimage Scan III. No sharpening or "noise" reduction added. Camera is tripod mounted Canon EF with Canon FD 50mm f/3.5 s.s.c. macro.
    00QT2x-63363584.jpg
     
  36. Here is the scan from the Arista Premium 400. I used Fomadon P 1:1 for 9.75 minutes at 68° F.
    00QT39-63365584.jpg
     
  37. Great now to order a roll thanks.
     
  38. Has anyone been able to confirm that the 100 speed is Plus-X or not? MB
     
  39. So I wrote and asked about 120 and sheet film. This is the answer.

    On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 1:58 PM, <xxx@freestylephoto.biz> wrote:

    Hi Michael

    Thanks for your e-mail. You pretty much answered your own question with
    your market response comment. If the response is good to the 35mm, then
    we can (and will) ask the manufacturer for more sizes, including 120 and
    sheet films.
     
  40. Even has the same type of plastic can as Tri-X and other Kodak films. Trying a roll right now.
     
  41. Good! Please let us know what you find.

    I, unfortunately, must wait until payday at the end of the month to place my order. I hear they don't let you
    take your camera into jail when they arrest you for passing bad checks.

    MB
     
  42. OK, I'll post some stuff I've done with the Arista Premium 100. I loaded a roll of the Arista into one body with a Tamron 28mm lens, and set the meter for 125 ASA (not 100 as the box speed), then loaded a roll of PX125 in another body with an old Promaster Spectrum 7 28mm lens and set the meter for 125 ASA. Both meters agreed when I framed the shots, and for the most part these two camera bodies both do a reasonable job of metering.

    I developed both rolls in the same tank in DD-X at 75F for 4:30 (as per Ilford's recommendation in their developer chart for PlusX).

    The scans are done on a cheap Epson 4180, not a high end scanner. You can also see a little evidence of my variations in framing, etc.

    I didn't scan any more than these, since they seem pretty much indistinguishable. Without the rebate information I don't know that I could identify which was which.

    Here you are: http://www.industrialinformatics.com/PhotoCenter/PlusX_Arista.zip

    Hope someone gets some decent info out of this, even though this thread is old.

    MB
     
  43. The purple tone sold me on it 2. 100 ft rls 400 asa 1. 100' rl of 100 ASA My opinion Tmax nothing else is even close. Shoot 400asa @ 1600 Develop in Rodinal 1-50
    00RrU1-99393584.jpg
     

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