Are D-76 and ID-11 Identical?

<p>I'm just curious: are D-76 and ID-11 really identical? Are they one and the same developer, just with different names? Or are they two different developers that just happen to work in the same dilutions and to give similar results?<br>

I'm asking this because D-76, according to Kodak, develops four films per liter, while, according to Ilford, ID-11 develops ten films per liter. Are their formulae different, or is Kodak simply trying to play safe? I'm sure both manufacturers have done extensive testing prior to publishing their data. They certainly know their stuff. Why is the capacity of D-76 so much lower than the one of ID-11?<br>

Thanks.</p>

 

<p>The formulas were the same at one time, maybe 4 decades ago. At one point in time Ilford added Phenodone in place of one of the D76 ingredients. If you have an old Photo Lab Index you can find out.<br>

They produce identical results and since the exact formula for D76 is known, I can mix it in small qualtities and it is extremely stable for 6 months in full glass bottles. I use 4 OZ glass bottles., enough for 8 films at 1:1.<br>

Not sure it you can still purchase a single liter of ID11, I could perhaps 5 years ago. I will never use a full 4 or 5 liters in 6 months so it is a waste to get a large pack of ID11 or D76. You would be amazed how cheap it is to mix D76 yourself, maybe $2/3 per gallon and it proportions down to 1/4 that for a liter which the prepackaged mix never did.<br>

Phenodone is hard to mix with water if i remember correctly. It has to be very hot water or disolved in alcohol first. Memory is very fuzzy on this.</p>

<p>I am very happy with home mixed D76, as it is stable and I never had a failure. </p>

<p>Some folks belive they do have some differences; mostly in additives to aid mixing. I don't know about Phenidone in ID-11, but you use the same.<br>

Kodak is probably playing it safe with the number of rolls you get thru 1 liter, but that may not be the best way to use D-76/ID-11. If you dilute is 1+1, you never have to guess how many rolls, just dilute, process your film and toss the mixture. Easy and always fresh dev.</p>

<p>I don't know if there is any substantial difference in the makeup of the two developers. I can tell you with certainty that they behave identically the way I use them. Like Jim, I always use it diluted 1+1 so that I'm never in doubt about the developer's activity. <br>

Ronald is onto something too. D-76 is incredibly cheap to mix from scratch, and it is a well known formula. All you really need is a good scale to measure the ingredients.</p>

<p>According to something I read ages ago, the difference was in the buffer system (chemical that maintains pH) kodak used kodalk (kodak balanced alkali) and Ilford borax (I think) otherwis eit's the same thing. The photography cookbook by Anschell or Anchell gives the composition. That bufer difference could explain the difference in the number of films you may run through with one or the other. FOR ALL USUAL PURPOSE THESE DEVS ARE IDENTICAL!</p>

<p>I tested the two some years ago. The versions of that era (maybe 10 yrs ago?) had a very, very slight difference with the ID-11 showing a lower density so slight that I could barely test the difference on a densitometer. Subsequent prints could not be discerned from each other. This was on 2 batches of each over some time so I felt confident in what I was seeing.</p>

<p>Thanks, guys. It's all clear now.<br>

I was asking this because I'd like to get the chemicals and mix the developer myself. I know the formula of D-76, so I was thinking that maybe I could mix D-76 and use Ilford's recommendations of ten films per litre instead of Kodak's four films. :-)<br>

But I think using it 1+1, one-shot, is a great idea. I guess I'll do that and forget about reusing and compensating.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

 

<p>From what I heard from Fred Newman, they're the same.</p>

<p>Vlad,<br>

Its a good idea to prepare this dev yourself, this cut costs. My experience with ID11 is that it does not keep well; Since I use it for delta 100 processing (8,5min at 20°C "à sec ontinuous agitation then inversions every 30 sec) and want to keep proper quality, I bought the chemicals and prepare it myself a single use dev, I felt it more consistant. If you buy it it's a rip off !<br>

If you are not chemist (but maybe you are working in a lab like me!) remember to dissolve chemicals in the order from the receipe, the chemicals for ID11 ere not too toxic but be careful particularly with the metol and hyroquinone .</p>

<p>D-76 and ID-11 are essentially identical. Ilford's is closer to the original formula, which is why the ingredients come in two packets. Kodak's is cheaper (at least on my side of the Atlantic and on my perch north of the 49th parallel). Both come in one-litre packages but here, at least, larger packets of Kodak chemicals come in peculiar US measures which I find to be quite annoying.<br>

I mix D-76 from scratch a fair bit and it works well. There are some alternate formulas that supposedly do away with the tendency of D-76 to gain in activity with age. They are worth trying, if you're mixing from raw chemicals.</p>

<p>@Jim, I usually use D-76H, which has slightly more metol and omits the HQ. It fixes the very problem you mention, and the results are identical to standard factory D76 as far as I can tell.</p>

<p>I also think that Sprint W & W film developer is the same formula. I use it with Ilford hp 5+ and Ilford Delta 100. Dillution is 1:9. The results are fine. The Delta is a touch contrasty but since I know that I can adjust.</p>

<p>Arnie K.</p>

<p>I also think that Sprint W & W film developer is the same formula. I use it with Ilford hp 5+ and Ilford Delta 100. Dillution is 1:9. The results are fine. The Delta is a touch contrasty but since I know that I can adjust.</p>

<p>Arnie K.</p>

At least the "PUBLISHED" formulas are identical. Both are M.Q developers and the MSDS is readily available for both products to show that they both contain Metol (Elon) and Hydroquinone. I don`t know where you got Phenidone in ID-11 from Ron, that stuff is used in "Micro`PHEN" (hence it`s name) and in ID-68.

I would say that Kodak are erring on the cautious side where film processing capacity is concerned Vlad. It also means that you buy more D-76 from them ;-)

<p>Having just read the safety data sheets on Ilford's site, another question springs to mind. They say that part A contains metol and hydroquinone, and part B contains sulphite and borax. Then how come the metol doesn't oxidize immediately after mixing part A? If Part A contains no sulphite, then by the time you mix part B the metol should be long oxidized, shouldn't it?<br>

Could it be that part A also contains a preservative, other than sulphite? Maybe one that's considered "safe" and so it doesn't need to be declared on the safety data sheet?</p>