Are any 7D owners experiencing these issues?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by jamie drouin, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. I am on my second 7D body this week and both exhibit the same repeatable problems. I am at a loss as to why, so hope that other 7D owners could chime in to say if they have experienced the same things.
    All images are being captured in RAW and processed through DPP:
    -The first issue is an overall softness to the image, as if a gentle soft portrait filter was added. This is occurring with two different lenses at 100ISO, a variety of apertures, under any conditions on a tripod. I just cannot get a sharp image. Micro adjustments were made to compensate for each lens. Both lenses have performed flawlessly on a Rebel XT body for a few years. It's only when used on the 7D do they both produce such effects.
    -I am getting the most extreme chromatic aberration I have ever encountered. I am used to a bit of color fringing with strong reflected light, but this is making most of my work unusable.
    [​IMG]
    -Attempting to sharpen the images results in a horrible cross-stitch patterning. I have tried several combinations of amount and radius but the patterning appears before any useful sharpening of the actual subject takes place.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    These are extremely irritating, and confusing issues in a new camera, and hopefully others have some insight. Before someone (invariably) accuses me of being a newbie at all this, I might not know all of the ins-and-outs of digital cameras, but I have been a professional exhibiting photographic artist for twenty years and have a reasonable amount of experience in digital image processing for large scale prints. I also live under the delusion that a new camera like this should just plain work ;-)
    Thanks for any help people can offer to end, or share in, this suffering.
     
  2. First, when you have new cam, it takes a while of learning to get the best from it. Also don't forget your pixel peeping, you will have to go pretty large in printing to be able to see it.
    Have try here for part of your problem http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/50d.shtml
    Probably the 7d is showing more lens problems than the xt and I also suggest to reconsider your sharpening technique, pretty many articles available with different techniques that deliver good results. Most Raw developers will be able to cope with the CA you show.
    you can also try other raw developer, i am pretty satisfied with lightroom. I am sure you will be happy with your 7d after getting it 'under control'.
     
  3. A couple things:
    1. 100% crops on the XT and the 7D show VERY different sizes of the actual image so you're effectively looking at one image under a 20x loupe and another under a 50x loupe.
    2. The 7d has extra resolving power so it tends to pick up lens flaws that you otherwise may notice. Your lens may have always had issues with softness and CA and you just never noticed.
    3. Sharpening best practice will be very different on the 7D versus the XTI. I find that oversharpening of underexposed images tends to produce the cross-hatch pattern you observe... probably due to the madatory noise reduction employed on the 7D.
    4. Check your settings in DPP and make sure you don't have noise reduction turned up or any other screwy settings.
     
  4. I think it's you, not the camera.
    You need to understand what you are looking at when you view 7D and Xt images at 100%. They are NOT the same thing. More pixels = higher magnification. plus you are looking a the performance of the lens at higher spatial frequencies = lower MTF = lower contrast.
    Stop looking at 100% crops on your monitor and try making some large PRINTS and comparing them. You'll see the difference.
     
  5. In the first image the sky is way overexposed compared to the forground and that will soften the branches because of flair (all lenses have some). Cromatic abrasion will also be more noticable (CA also exists in all lenses). The camera appears to have also focused on one of the nearby branches causing thebackground to be out of focus.
    Sharpening will not help a out of focused image. In your attempt to get a sharp image you pushed the software all the way to the point it started to create artifacts.
    For the two photos you used to demonstrate you sharpening problems, I am only looking at crops and without seeing the rest I cannot tell what went wrong. However that said both appear to be underexposed.
    A good test photo will be a uniformly lit flat surface without any blown highlights.
     
  6. Thank you for the replies so far. I do appreciate the difference between magnifications, but I am also very used to what I should be seeing on-screen 300dpi at print size (not 100%). I usually work at 16x20 and 20x30 exhibition sizes.

    I always shoot RAW, but just ran a comparison test shooting in-camera JPEG and I am not experiencing the pattern during sharpening, so there is something screwy with DPP even with everything set to default. With a small amount of sharpening on the JPEGs I am getting much closer to the image quality I would expect out of an 18MP camera.

    May I ask if anyone who replied is actually using the 7D, or if these are more generalized responses about workflow?
     
  7. Hi Steve,
    Agreed on the CA existing in all lenses to varying degrees. It's just not something I have seen to such an extreme level on my images with the Leica M8 with lenses with open, or on the Rebel using the same lens.
    The textural artifacts are already visible without any sharpening, and the examples shown only use a moderate amount of post sharpening. Again, not something I have seen in any of my other cameras, so it was a shock. It means that no level of sharpening is really possible without downscaling the image. It's curious that the source artifacts are not showing at all on the in-camera 7D JPEGs.
     
  8. I've shot extensively with a 7D since last October and have suffered no issues whatsoever. It's the best crop camera I've used and I've owned many. I can say I had to relearn using the AF system and it took a couple weeks of screwing around to understand how each AF mode works and what it should be used for. I initially got plenty of Oof images simply because I used the wrong AF mode. Also, I had to adjust postproduction as 7D files are different from my 50D and 5D files. I've been pleased with the 12x18 prints and can't say there is even a hint of softness in the images.
    I haven't seen much problems with purpose fringing either but that usually varies with lens and subject.
    Vintage door handle • Canon EOS 7D, EF-s 17-55 2.8: F 3.5, 1/100, ISO 1600
    [​IMG]
    And Pixel level view:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. I have a Tokina 80-200/2.8 ATX that had served well for years, but now shows CA like you have, and only on the 7D. Not just fringing, but hard borders like you're showing, everywhere in the frame with hard contrast, not just in corners or near edges. None of my Canon glass does that, so I'm writing off the Tokina, not the 7D. It's even worse than you're showing. The white lanyard on my ColorChecker Passport, in one indoor shot, has a hard blue edge. It's the worst CA I've ever seen. I don't recall if I tried cleaning it in DPP; LR2 couldn't do anything with it.
    (PS: I have no problems with sharpness or detail with any lens. The 7D is a peeper's delight.)
     
  10. shot of last week 2x magnification no adjustments, ligthroom. a 7d with old 100mm macro. no CA in the corners. iso 250 and handheld (sorry for that, i have this available).
     
  11. server error , i will try later can't get through.
     
  12. new try, different shot, all data available on screen
    00Vhj6-218059584.jpg
     
  13. I use some of the best lenses on my 7D and am rather amazed and how much BETTER the images are than the 40D. I own just four lenses.
    Are you using fast L lenses? Primes? If not then YMMV. For some reason your lenses are a secret. Likely 100% user error.
     
  14. I'm surprised no one has asked Jamie what lenses are being used.
     
  15. Why don't you ask him?
     
  16. I just did ;-)
     
  17. Jamie, I've been shooting the 7D since last October. I mostly use "L" glass, but have a few good quality EF-S lenses as well. None of my lenses produce anything like what you are showing in your photos. So what lenses are you using? (I asked him too, Daniel ;-))
    Here's an uncropped RAW (converted to JPEG and resized) with absolutely no in-camera or post processing sharpening. EXIF is intact if you have a reader (Opanda, etc.).
    00Vhol-218117584.JPG
     
  18. And here's a somewhat similar shot to yours, with a little post processing.
    00VhpC-218121784.JPG
     
  19. And a tight crop of above.
    00VhpW-218125684.JPG
     
  20. Well, I purposely left out the details of my lenses so it it did not end up being the focus of the conversation. The CA and overall softness could be attributed to specific lenses, but certainly not the bizarre textures I am getting when processing RAW images through Canon's DPP.

    But, since inquiring minds want to know, I am using the following lenses: Canon EF 50mm 1.4, Canon EF 35mm 1.4L, and Canon EF 20mm 2.8. The examples were from around the center of view, not the corners, where one would expect more exaggerated issues.

    I have the sneaking suspicion (backed up by Darwin Wiggett article) that is it DPP giving me the grief, otherwise the JPEGs would not look so much better. Off to download the latest LR to see if that makes a difference.
     
  21. BTW: stunning bird photo, Mark.
     
  22. I processed my 7D RAW images above in DPP 3.7x. I used DPP exclusively for several months until Apple finally released a RAW update for Aperture. No problems with purple fringing with high contrast or softness in the the many hundreds of RAW images I processed. I wasn't too pleased with ACR output but Aperture is actually excellent at ISO 800 and lower. I still use DPP for high ISO mainly for the NR as I don't have decent NR plugins for Aperture or PS.
    Both these images have high contrast areas but no purple fringing visible even at pixel view.
    Canon EOS 7D & EF-s 15-85 3.5-5.6 IS USM: 85mm, F6.3, 1/250, ISO 100.
    [​IMG]
    Canon EOS 7D, EF-s 15-85 3.5-5.6: 85mm, F5.6, 1/15, ISO 400. My best bird shot.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Yup. I found that to be so as well. For high ISO noise, NR in LR2.6 is not nearly as effective or gentle on details as DPP or in camera. I pre-process high ISO shots in DPP, and save out TIFFs after white balancing to finish up in LR2.
    When I first got the 7D, I experimented briefly with a JPG-only workflow, as the camera processing did such a good job when the settings were right. With enough vigilance on WB and exposure, thoughtful use of standard or custom picture-styles might be enough to do away with post- althogether. (The hardcore minimal-post folks should give this a try. With some clairvoyance and anticipatory tooling up on custom picture-styles, you can theoretically wiggle the tripod for the just right framing and then just print directly from the camera, bypassing post processing and peeping completely.) Anyway, DPP feels like a software implementation of the in camera processing. I'm a little surprised to find so many folks have problems with it.
     
  24. We can close this discussion as my third replacement 7D body exhibits none of the issues. It was not user error after all, but a particularly bad couple of bodies.
     
  25. In answer to your original question, "Yes". I have a 7D that in retrospect I foolishly assumed would 'just work' and took it, new, to Africa, only to come home and find less that half the shots unusable. The autofocus simply does not work: worse it tells you that it has worked. There is another thread on this site that I was looking for when I found this one. It has several other victims to the failing. I say victim because this is one of those phenomena that not all seem to get. The ones that don't, simply cannot believe that the victims are not morons that cannot hold their cameras or adjust any setting. Sadly, it seems that even the mighty Canon make mistakes. Beware all you faithful, one day they might get you. As an example, here's a screenshot of DPP with the dodgy focus, one of 3 out of seven that was way off, as opposed to the three that were off and the one just off. I'd send back a £17 camera, let alone a £1700 one.
     

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