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Bad film or camera?  

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  1. 1. Bad film or camera?

    • Bad Film
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    • Bad Camera
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I just got digital scans of a roll of Kodak Advantix 100. All the images looked under-exposed. The film was expired, duh, but I think it was the camera. I used an old Elph Lite that I have had for years, but not used, also for many years. So what does everyone here think, camera or film?

 

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How old was the film and what were its storage conditions?

 

Has it had anything really traumatic happen to it like a trip(or a few trips) through an airport checked baggage scanner?

No date that I could see on roll, but APS film stopped production some time ago. I bought it from a reputable vendor who stored the film in cold storage. No trips to airport.

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It looks like the camera got an image no problems. Have you seen the negatives ? This pic could be from very old film or very old chemicals used to develop it. If it's scanning, it's hard to imagine how the lab could get it so wrong

 

 

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It looks like the camera got an image no problems. Have you seen the negatives ? This pic could be from very old film or very old chemicals used to develop it. If it's scanning, it's hard to imagine how the lab could get it so wrong

 

Yes, I am leaning towards the film. The lab I use also developed a fuji APS roll for me that came out fine. They're pretty reputable, so I am sure it wasn't them. Yes, the camera got an image, but could the exposure be wrong. Meaning, not enough light for a long enough time to get the image. I am shooting a roll of the same lot in my Contax T iX to see if it does the same thing. The T iX works, now let us see if the film does.

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Yes, the camera got an image, but could the exposure be wrong. Meaning, not enough light for a long enough time to get the image.

 

It's not easy to determine but there's enough detail in both highlights and shadows to say it was a reasonable exposure in the camera. If it was a gross underexposure, it would be more black than brown. That brown color is indicative of very old or exhausted chemicals. Very old color film has color shifts and/or only one or two colors. Without a peek at the negatives, I'd say it's both bad film and bad chemicals. I'd be surprised if it's scanning

 

See what your Contax does with it and get back with the results

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It's not easy to determine but there's enough detail in both highlights and shadows to say it was a reasonable exposure in the camera. If it was a gross underexposure, it would be more black than brown. That brown color is indicative of very old or exhausted chemicals. Very old color film has color shifts and/or only one or two colors. Without a peek at the negatives, I'd say it's both bad film and bad chemicals. I'd be surprised if it's scanning

 

See what your Contax does with it and get back with the results

The negatives are being shipped back as we speak. I just shot the second roll in my Contax and will ship them to get developed tomorrow. Thanks for the input.

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It's not easy to determine but there's enough detail in both highlights and shadows to say it was a reasonable exposure in the camera. If it was a gross underexposure, it would be more black than brown. That brown color is indicative of very old or exhausted chemicals. Very old color film has color shifts and/or only one or two colors. Without a peek at the negatives, I'd say it's both bad film and bad chemicals. I'd be surprised if it's scanning

 

See what your Contax does with it and get back with the results

Here is a photo of the negatives.

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I don't see any negatives, I only see blank film. We need to see an image on the film

I know, it all looks like that. I don't know how any image was scanned because I can not see any density whatsoever on any part of the negative! Did you notice that even the area around the sprocket holes was the same color?

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Oh ok. I have a film the same, it was in a Minolta 7s I bought and the film was unfinished. I finished exposing the film but it must have been well expired and the chemicals I used were old but I was thinking they would be alright, they weren't. Later in-date films exposed in the 7s and developed in fresh chemicals came out fine which proved the camera was working ok.

 

The same brown color is in this image, the tree should be green and the plane should be dark grey. The sky in your image is blue, likewise in my image. The similarities between the two images is fairly obvious, but IMO not the cameras' fault. The same film put through your Contax will probably look the same, let's see it when you get it back.

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I'm not that familiar with APS film but shouldn't that have edge markings between the sets of sprocket holes? That points to a processing problem . . . loud and clear.

 

That's actually a very, very good point that I had overlooked.

 

APS frame edges have just as many markings-if not more than-35mm film. Cameras themselves sometimes add their own-depending on the specific model, some add exposure data and aspect ratio(APS-H, APS-C, APS-P) to the magnetic strip, while some omit most of that and just expose markings for the aspect ratio. It's a bit of a convoluted system, but it let very low end and disposable cameras choose aspect ratios while also allowing more advanced cameras to add a whole lot of extra data.

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I think that we have some sort of answer . . .

 

If the issue was with the blix/fix, the film may have had some sort of image when scanned (likely INSIDE of the processor) that was lost since. Either in the canister while being shipped OR when removed from the canister and exposed to light.

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I think that we have some sort of answer . . .

 

If the issue was with the blix/fix, the film may have had some sort of image when scanned (likely INSIDE of the processor) that was lost since. Either in the canister while being shipped OR when removed from the canister and exposed to light.

I think this is the answer! I contacted the lab. I'll let you know what they say. I used what you said to make my point. I can't thank you guys enough.

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It is a little hard to say, but age usually fogs film such that it is dark. (Lighter in the scans and prints.)

 

C41 films are amazing in what they can store, that you can't see in the negative.

 

They have a gamma (contrast value) of about 0.5, such that the density change in the negative is

about half the intensity change in the source. Very underexposed, you can see almost nothing,

yet printers (and scanners) get an image out.

 

It looks to me underexposed, but I am not completely sure.

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-- glen

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The lab may have sent you the wrong film. Your film should have images and edge markings, perhaps faint but they should be there even if the bleach/fix was weak. On reflection, and thinking about the film under your fluoro desk lamp again, the only reason for the lack of edge markings is the film was never touched by the developer.

 

What do labs do with films once they've scanned them to disc, store them way with identification details, or throw them in a bin along with everyone elses' films ? I wouldn't know, I develop my own films, but if I ever sent one away, I'd insist on the film being returned with the disc to enable an inspection of the negatives as soon as possible after processing

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The lab may have sent you the wrong film. Your film should have images and edge markings, perhaps faint but they should be there even if the bleach/fix was weak. On reflection, and thinking about the film under your fluoro desk lamp again, the only reason for the lack of edge markings is the film was never touched by the developer.

 

What do labs do with films once they've scanned them to disc, store them way with identification details, or throw them in a bin along with everyone elses' films ? I wouldn't know, I develop my own films, but if I ever sent one away, I'd insist on the film being returned with the disc to enable an inspection of the negatives as soon as possible after processing

No, it is my roll. I wrote the numbers down before I sent it.

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I got the following responses from The Darkroom for those interested:

"Hello Henry,

Thank you for your recent order with The Darkroom.

110 film does not have edge markings, usually only the exposure number and arrow. The result you are seeing is very typical of old 110 film and will be brown. We replenish our chemicals everyday and would never use old chemicals.

Please don't hesitate to contact should you have any additional questions.

Thank you for choosing The Darkroom and have a wonderful day!"

I in-turn responded as follows:

"This was not 110 film. If you check the order you will see it was APS film which does have edge markings. I am disappointed with your response."

 

Then they followed up with:

 

"Hello Henry,

I do apologize as I did not pull your film envelope to see that it was APS film as it did look just like 110 film in your attachment. It is old film and that could be the cause. Again, we do not use old chemicals and run test strips all day to ensure our mixture is perfect before we run any film.

Please don't hesitate to contact should you have any additional questions."

 

If I take them at their word, it was the film. But does that explain why the image vanished and there are no edge markings? Honestly, I am not trying to pick a fight or get my money back. I am just curious as to the cause. Obviously, it is old film, but I don't know if this is something that happens to old film. I've seen it blotchy, cloudy and other ways, but not disappear.

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I don't believe that old film was the cause. There should still be some markings on the edge and old film wouldn't lose it's image in this way. But, you will never get them to admit that they caused the problem. I don't care if they run test strips and replenish. Something happened while this roll was being processed.
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Here's an APS film that was in an Elph LT I bought for $5 in a second-hand books and nick-nack shop 3 months ago. It appears to be very old exposed film because the photos were taken through a passenger plane's window and the plane had the old style rear side engines, how long ago was that ? I developed the film and this is what I got ...

 

 

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Black film but still with edge markings and images

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