Apple saga continues

<p>So after months of trips to apple store ( told me the hardware was fine within the 30 day return period ) now they tell me the logic board and ram where bad so it was replaced. I get it back and have the same problems but now the display does not work. Still they want me to bring it back for them to monitor and repair. Is this a joke. Apple used to have great support. </p>

<p>Why is it when you just order something you see a post like this :-)</p>

because not all apple or pc are bad, shit append.... out of million sold, you got a bad one... out of the 30 i bought in

the lt 18 years... they where all good.

 

whats the problem with there service? it doestn work and they want to fix it... you cant blame them for that seriously?

<p>The service was my issue but I happy to say they finally gave me a new one. ( with a slight upgrade to boot ) Great computers, just a frustrating situation when something is handled poorly.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Is this a joke.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, it's not a joke. And neither is a system that takes months to resolve. This has been happening for a few years now. You're not an isolated case nor is it easily forgiven. I have more than a few friends that feel the same way as you and there are scores and scores of postings in the mac forums with people that feel the same.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Scores and scores of postings</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Out of how many sold? I'm on my 4th one, still have and use 3 of them and haven't had a problem except an optical drive went out after 2 years. Was replaced in a day for free. Yes people get lemons and not rarely, but Apple has the highest computer hardware customer satisfaction rating of computer company ranked. See: http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-still-winning-the-customer-satisfaction-game/<br>

It sucks he had a problem and it shouldn't have taken that long to fix it. But apparently they are doing something right.</p>

<p>Admittedly, I have NEVER had a Mac fail on me (and, believe it or not, I have owned pretty much one from every line since the original Mac 512! - I think I must be on my 15th Mac or so...). Barry is absolutely right - of course you;ll get problems - it's hardware and hardware fails! Do you know that some PC manufacturers require your screen to have at least 3 bad pixels before they replace it? How would you react to that?</p>

<p>Apple has an amazing customer service record and a few odd cases here and there are only to be expected - statistically speaking.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Apple has an amazing customer service record and a few odd cases here and there are only to be expected - statistically speaking.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What do you call a few odd cases? Do you use google? Here's one epic thread with 2400 replies going 162 something pages about the flickering iMac last year.<br>

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2218213</p>

<p>then the forum had to continue it here because it was crashing Mac browsers (unreal)<br>

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2381983&tstart=135&start=0</p>

<p>They sold them for four months knowing a huge % of them were faulty. Perhaps go there and call it a "few odd cases". Then the flickering monitor might be solved, but know the 2010 Core i7 iMac shutdown issue</p>

<p>http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2548180&tstart=15&start=0</p>

<p>Reminds me of the breaking hinges on the first Macbook Air. Consumers all over the globe breaking hinges on thier new $2000 Air and Apple refuses warranty. Surely someone here must remember that one? There's 152 pages of this sentiment:<br>

"Apple has repeated this pattern of accusing the consumer for practically everything they've produced. You'd expect an extended service agreement to be honored more often than challenged (by a reputable company). I dropped Apple (due to the way they handled my son and his iPhone purchase) and have gone back to Dell..."<br>

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1893302&tstart=0</p>

<p>Then if that wasn't enough, the newly released MacBook Air Screen "Flicker" and Freeze<br>

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2629780&start=0&tstart=0</p>

<p>Mac finally admits issues<br>

http://www.google.ca/search?q=imac+flickering+monitor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,25907,27494,27744,27868&xhr=t&q=macbook+air+issues&cp=14&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=Ls1&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11</p>

<p>A year before that they did the same thing with the faulty nVidia 9400 chipset in the MBP. Want links to that as well?</p>

<p>You wont be able to find similar stories from Dell/HP/Asus etc. Apple was much better when they were close to bankruptcy. It's been down hill in the computer dept since the success of the iPod imo</p>

 

<p>Apple used to be good when very few people bought it and there was a huge price premium to pay, so they made sure each unit would be quality tested. Now, there are many more using Apple products because it is a fad. They are producing more products and as a result the quality testing is not very good.</p>

<p>It was a frustrating experience mainly because when I first purchased the machine it seemed to run slow. It would hang and spin a lot doing just simple things so I called apple care they had me do some tests etc and said it all seemed fine. The battery also only lasted about 2 hours so after doing tests ( they said it was fine ) I finally had enough and just took it in. They ran tests again and found the battery was bad but everything else was fine ( as they say) months of poor performance and crashes followed.</p>

<p>All this time I am making countless calls and re-installing the system 2 times to still have the same issues. Took it in again and they claimed all was fine. This time I did not accept that and had them take it and inspect it in detail. Sure enough I get it back and most all of the insides where replaced ( logic board, ram ) . Turn it on the first time and the display does not work not to mention it was still crashing.</p>

<p>On my last trip in the first tech I spoke to told me it even feel strange like something is humming that is not right. The manager at first does not want to offer a replacement they said they will only fix it which obviously frustrated me further, I mean you get something back after a week and there are now new problems and the response is "well it needs to be repaired".</p>

<p>An hour of talking ( arguing my case ) and they finally agreed to replace it. I guess all's well but still this would not have come to this years ago and my confidence in apple is not at all the same. I will never spend this amount of money on a laptop from them again. They did make it right giving me a slight upgrade but it should not have come to this.</p>

<p>My advice when you buy an apple computer give it a really good test in the first month when it can be returned. Any issues ( not what apple techs say ) but issues you feel you experience. RETURN IT ASAP while you still can. <br /><br /></p>

>>> Out of how many sold? <P>

 

Excellent question, Barry. For the last quarter apple sold a record 3.89M Macs. Let's say future quarters will be at least that. Or,

15.5M units for the year.<P>

 

With respect to "scores and scores." how about 100 score? That would represent 0.013% of all Macs sold over a

year.<P>

 

Not enough scores? How about 1,000 score? Then that's 0.13%.<P>

 

There's a reason why Apple is the 2nd highest valued company; with market cap at $287B. Also, it's good to compare <a

href= "http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images53/applmsft.jpg">market performance</a> with the others.

>>> Now, there are many more using Apple products because it is a fad.

 

Can you elaborate on this fad? I'm genuinely curious about that, especially during these really tough economic times where many people are struggling to make ends meet.

<blockquote>

<p>They sold them for months knowing a huge % of them were faulty</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So do you have anything more precise than that? What do you consider a "huge %" 1 in 1000, 1 in 10,000? And of the people who complained, how many did not ultimately get them fixed on warranty? Some real numbers instead of hyperbole would be appreciated.</p>

Some interesting reading, from a 2010 survey by PC World <a href=

"http://www.pcworld.com/article/211074/the_tech_brands_you_can_trust.html">here</a>. <P>

And <a href=

"http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=211402&page=1&zoomIdx=1">here are some results</a> specifically

relating to laptops from the same survey.

<p>"Apple used to be good when very few people bought it and there was a huge price premium to pay, so they made sure each unit would be quality tested. Now, there are many more using Apple products because it is a fad. They are producing more products and as a result the quality testing is not very good."</p>

<p>Starvy...is your statement about quality tested based on fact or speculation? More Apple products may be sold because of a fad, but I think innovation and marketing is the main reason for the huge consumer increase in Apple products.</p>

<p>I bought Fords from 1971-93. Each time I wanted a new car, I figured the newer model was improved. Each time I got burned. So I finally decided not to be stupid and in 1999 I bought a Honda. It is still running and if it blows up tomorrow I got my moneys worth out of it. Similarly, I think people are getting disgusted with PCs and the associated antivirus programs and Windoze updates necessary to keep then running properly.</p>

<p>I think both the American cars and PCs (with Windows 7) perform fine, but I will stick to the Japanese brand cars and my next computer will no doubt be a Mac. I don't have a problem with anyone preferring American cars or Macs, just don't expect me to consider a PC or American brand car one for a long time.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>What do you consider a "huge %" 1 in 1000, 1 in 10,000? And of the people who complained, how many did not ultimately get them fixed on warranty? Some real numbers instead of hyperbole would be appreciated.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Oh come on now. Do I really need to show numbers that Ford Pinto's have a tendency to explode when rear-ended? Is it like that? That I have no hard numbers so it must not be true? Hyperbole? Like, I'm alone and making it all up over an isolated case? 33,000 google results for "imac flickering monitor problem" would suggest not.</p>

<p>http://www.google.ca/search?q=imac+flickering+monitor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=cva&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=imac+flickering+monitor+problem&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11</p>

<p>There's a whole thread I linked with thousands of entries from customers on the flickering iMac and how they went back as many as four times all under "warranty". Many were out of pocket $3K and no computer for 6 months. Some come home with a "fixed" machine and it still had the same issue. Others with replacements and the replacement had the same issue. Knock your self out, read the threads, don't take my word for it. Curiously though, what do your questions have to do with my point that <strong>they sold iMac's knowing they were faulty? </strong>They've done on it on a handful or occasions and just did it again with antennas on iPhone 4. Would you take on just 1 photo gig knowing your camera was faulty? The flickering monitor issue showed up within days of going to market. It became such a marketing fiasco and it wasn't until the 'net exploded with irate customers that they finally stopped shipping this lemon three months later.</p>

<p> </p>

And in spite of what you claim, Apple comes out on top (1st) in <a href=

"http://www.pcworld.com/article/211074/the_tech_brands_you_can_trust.html">PC World's 2010 survey</a>, with 79,000 respondents, on product

reliability, customer service, and support.

That's a huge sample set. <P>

 

<a href= "http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=211081&page=1&zoomIdx=1">Here's their desktop

ranking</a> to complement their laptop ranking (also 1st), above.

<blockquote>

<p>And in spite of what you claim...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Can we clarify what I "claim"? Surely you don't think I have the time to go out and make all that evidence I point to in the links? I only claim that they sell products when otherwise, imo, they should be halting them or doing recalls like other companies.</p>

<p>I trust the advertising driven PC World for awards and stats as much as I trust the General Electric owned Car & Driver for "Car of the Year" Award. But if you want to talk customer service, lets try some key word searching:</p>

<p>"horrible mac customer service" has 332,000 results<br>

http://www.google.ca/search?q=mac+custmer+service&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=F8a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&&sa=X&ei=s5P1TNOiNo_6swOr1pXwAQ&ved=0CBUQvwUoAQ&q=horrible+mac+customer+service&spell=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11<br>

"horrible apple customer service" has 432,000 google results<br>

http://www.google.ca/search?q=horrible+mac+customer+service&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,25907,27494,27744,27868,27879&xhr=t&q=horrible+apple+customer+service&cp=14&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=ZFe&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11</p>

<p>"horrible dell customer service" has 150,000 google results</p>

<p>http://www.google.ca/search?q=mac+custmer+service&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,25907,27494,27744,27868,27879&xhr=t&q=horrible+dell+customer+service&cp=13&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11</p>

<p>So I try different key words for another test.</p>

<p>"crappy apple customer service" has 160,000 results<br>

http://www.google.ca/search?q=mac+custmer+service&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,25907,27494,27744,27868,27879&xhr=t&q=crappy+apple+customer+service&cp=12&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11<br>

"crappy dell customer service" has 76,000 results<br>

http://www.google.ca/search?q=mac+custmer+service&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,25907,27494,27744,27868,27879&xhr=t&q=crappy+dell+customer+service&cp=11&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=d889988ee2a99b11</p>

<p>Odd. That's twice as many negative results for Apple compared to Dell, a company that ships a heck of alot more.</p>

<p>Seems the OP and his saga isn't too far off.</p>

 

G, you're dismissing PC World because you don't like the results. Similarly, Asus, who ranked #2, must

be at the bottom as well, because you feel the survey is bogus. If say Dell or HP were at the top you

would no doubt be referencing that survey here.<P>

 

>>> "horrible mac customer service" has 332,000 results<P>

 

Actually it has no hits if you put that phrase in quotes like you should. Otherwise you get a ton

of results like <a href= "http://eschreiber.blogspot.com/2009/01/my-horrible-dell-customer-service-

saga.html">this one</a>, <a href= "http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1089227">this one</a>, <a

href=

"http://www.planetfeedback.com/america+online/phone+customer+service/horrible+customer+service+r

ude+treatment+inexcusable+performance/293828">this one</a>, <a href=

"http://blogcritics.org/scitech/article/buymusiccom-buyer-beware/">this one</a>, and on and on.<P>

 

A proper survey cannot be done by simply searching on words; especially if they are unconnected.

<blockquote>

<p>G, you're dismissing PC World because you don't like the results.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, no, actually it because it has "PC" in it. Lol</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Similarly, Asus, who ranked #2, must be at the bottom as well, because you feel the survey is bogus. If say Dell or HP were at the top you would no doubt be referencing that survey here.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You're putting words in my mouth. Where have I said that? I'm not a fan boy of any brand. I point out Dell a lot because it is the #1 selling PC'r and use them for blanket generalizations. I find almost everything (except yummy alum MBP's) to be plastic made-in-china intel crap. Some are just better at marketing than others.</p>

<p>I don't search with quotes. Just used them here to differentiate in my text. But searched fair I thought?</p>

<p>I've owned a dozen or so Macs since 1990 (laptops and desktops). Each of them gave me three years of good day-in-and-day-out use. I owned one Dell laptop in the late 90's and it was a solid machine, too. My iPods and iPad have never given me a problem.</p>

<p>If it makes you feel any better, my Nissan is a lemon. Everyone else I know who's ever owned a Nissan raved about how reliable they are. Mine's on its second engine and the problems never end. Lemons happen. Better luck next time - for both of us!</p>

<p>Just my two cents on this issue from someone who used to be an Apple retail employee:</p>

<p>Sometimes people have wild expectations about Apple' and some people have to remember that, while in my experience better than ANY other computer manufacturer out there, are still a company like any other.</p>

<p>I've seen everything from the quintessential "My Macbook Pro has a serious problem that can't be recreated under any circumstances and my warranty is up tomorrow. i think I should get a new generation as a replacement just in case…" to "It's Apple's fault my screen broke after falling out of my third story window, it should have been made better". </p>

<p>For whatever reason people place there expectations as high as they want and somehow expect Apple to meet them. When they don't , they act as if they've been immensely wronged. I can't tell you how many people came in with a "virus" that mysteriously disappeared after a quick permissions fix or something of the sort. Everyone wants to get the better of Apple.</p>

<p>i've been using Macs for years and have never had any serious problems. i've had two failed optical drives that were replaced without fuss. i m son getting my entire (admittedly scratched )screen replaced because it may slave a small wifi problem I've been having. All in the store, no waiting on the phone, no shipping anything, and no more than a few days without my computer. Lets see if you can get the same thing from ANY other manufacturer.</p>

 

<p>Ridiculous expectations are common in all forms of customer service, it isn't just Apple.. but that does certainly account for many cases of "bad service" with any company.</p>

<p>Problems happen, it's a fact of any manufacturing. Apple on the whole seems to be better at fixing it than many other companies, but nobody is perfect. I've had great service from them over the years, replaced batteries, extended warranties on problems, full system replacements for things I didn't really expect to require them, etc. I do find going into an Apple store gets you -far- better service than other methods, which isn't an option for everybody unfortunately.</p>

<p>Of course, sometimes they suck. It may be a manager who isn't willing to budge, a tech who doesn't know what the heck they're doing, or somebody just having a bad day, but it happens. This is a fact of any company, of any customer service... it's an unfortunate one, but it does happen.</p>

<p>To those who are trying to use google results to make a point, don't bother. They're useless. Searching generic terms plus the addition of a company name is absolutely no indicator of anything.</p>

<p>There is also a large problem of perspective when using complaints as a judgement of a company. People who have problems complain, many of them complain as often as possible, as loudly as possible. People who don't have problems.. well they tend to be a whole lot quieter. So you get this massively skewed view of things when you only look at who is talking. You have to keep in mind the real number of customers, and how happy people are as well. That's where customer satisfaction surveys come in, they take a cross section of both (or at least try to).. and in those results, Apple is awesome.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>To those who are trying to use google results to make a point, don't bother.<br /> They're useless. Searching generic terms plus the addition of a company name is<br /> absolutely no indicator of anything.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>If I read you correctly, then I disagree. I think most do. Almost every online business counts on people searching with generic terms plus the addition of a company name. Search engine results are based on this. Google Analytic's is based on this. When you buy key words and key phrases, it's all based on this. SEO industries of are all based on the exact opposite of that you claim.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>There is also a large problem of perspective when using complaints as a judgement of a company. People who have problems complain, many of them complain as often as possible, as loudly as possible.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>But not with Mac people and other brands that have established a cult. Most of them are quiet and almost embarrassed and not easily to admit that their religion isn't perfect. Windows on the other hand, is different. Everyone loves to trash windows, the boring beige one of the bunch.</p>

<p>Ubuntu is #1</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I've been a Mac user for about three years now, switching from a PC to MacBook Pro. I've been bragging ever since about how the biggest difference between my Mac and my old PC's is simple: my Mac works. Every time. Until yesterday. Bang. Dead. No display. No nothing. Turns out my motherboard died. It's less than three years old, but outside the warranty (I didn't go with the 3yr). I thought I was screwed. Took it to the Genius Bar and the guy confirmed what I thought: it was pretty much deceased, and would cost around $900 to fix. But instead of telling me I was SOL, the guy said "We'll get it taken care of." He wrote it up as a graphics card failure that killed the processor, and wrote the work order up free of charge. Free. Of charge. Obviously everyone has their own experience, but mine has been positive to say the least. I have some serious issues with Apple and their decision to say what I can and can't put on my iPod/iPad/iPhone. I'm a grown up Steve. I don't need you telling me what is and isn't appropriate. That being said; as far as service goes? They get a big fat gold star from me.</p>