Aperture size for group shot

<p>I need some advice about shooting a group shot (10-15 people) in a lower light situation, like in a church. I am wondering what is the biggest aperture I can use to get everyone in sharp focus while still letting as much light in as possible. Also, what would be the best method of focusing to get everyone in focus. I'm shooting with a Canon 40D and a 430 EXII flash. I have a Canon17-85mm f/4-5.6, a Canon 50mm f/1.8, and a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. Since I would need a small aperture, I think the 17-50 is the best lens to use since it has IS. Oh, and I would be using a tripod as well. Thanks in advance for the advice!</p>

<p>You don't want to go any lower than F/11 - possibly even f/15<br>

The key is additional lightining... rent another flash - or set up strobe lighting with an umbrella to shoot through for soft light.</p>

<p>Do not use the 50 mm... you'll be on the back wall of the church... go with the 17/85 or 17/50 whichever one is sharper.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>It depends on your focal length, and distance to the subjects. Because you'll be likely shooting from a decent distance (20+ feet) and using a semi-wide angle, you'll likely have sufficent depth of field at f/4.<br><p>

For example, if you are using your 40D with a 30mm focal length, and are 20 feet from your subject, you'll have depth of field between 13 and 41 ft. If you stop it down to f/5.6 you'll have depth of field from 12-72 feet.</p>

<p>I usually find F/5.6 or F/8 works pretty well for group shots with something like the Tamron 17-50.</p>

<p>Three things to consider ----<p><br /> 1.} depth of field<p></p>

<p>2.} Actual sharpest aperture of the lens. Roughly f6.8 to f8.5 <p></p>

<p>3.} How you line-up your group <p></p>

<p>Start with a wide angle ( you can always crop) > manual focus > tripod > straight line on the first row of subjects.....second line <em>directly </em> behind</p>

<p>Example :: 1/15 f8 iso 100 > fill flash Auto f 4</p><div></div>

<p >Using your Tamron lens at about FL = 24mm at a subject distance of 12' (3.5m) will give you about 15' wide and just over 8' high Field of View, at 12’ distance. That is enough for a nice group shot of 10 to 15 arranged or slightly scattered on two steps or in three rows.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >At FL = 24mm I would expect very little barrel distortion from that lens (but I do not own one) and in any case, such will be limited if the Camera Elevation is about Chest Height, and is kept square on to the subjects.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >At Av = F4, I expect that lens will show reasonable quality. At Av = F4, the lens will render a DoF of about 15' which would be more than adequate, using a centre point focus on the B & G, assuming they are in the centre of the group.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Using this Aperture / Subject Distance / Focal Length combination as a starting point will allow reasonable flexibility with your EX 430MkII, whilst shooting at the mid ISO, and also allow you to employing bounce and / or diffusion, should you wish so to do.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >You should research and learn the technical aspects of: <strong><em>Depth of Field</em></strong>; <strong><em>Fill Flash</em></strong>; <strong><em>Flash Guide Numbers</em></strong>; <strong><em>Barrel Distortion</em></strong>; <strong><em>Lens’ Sweet Spots</em></strong> (<em>both FL and Aperture for zoom lenses</em>); so that you might fully appreciate the reasons why these suggestions are a reasonable starting point for the situation you are enquiring.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

 

<p>It is not advisable to use the IS while on the tripod.</p>

<p>I ususally use at least f5.6 and for more than two rows, F8 - f16 depending on how much focus is desired.</p>

<p>I'd advise doing some study on depth of field. Go to dofmaster. com, download the free software and do other research on depth of field. There is no one answer to your first question since DOF depends on focal length, subject distance and aperture--all three. Plus a cropped sensor camera has 'more' DOF compared to a full frame sensor camera. You could get away with f2.8, or you could need f11--it depends on all those three things.</p>

<p>As for your other statements, the Tamron 17-50mm does not have IS, so I guess you mean the Canon 17-85? If so, and if you are using a tripod, you should not use IS, and anyway, you don't need IS if you are on a tripod.</p>

<p>As many have mentioned, HOW you set up your rows is important--you want as small a depth as possible, and you generally want to put your focus point about 1/3 of the way into the depth of the rows. You also want to be adept at autofocusing your camera, to avoid the backfocusing one sometimes gets with autofocus cameras. Some people focus twice, some people use manual focus--you need to find the surest method for you.</p>

<p><strong><em>"It is not advisable to use the IS while on the tripod."</em></strong><br>

As a general application, I agree with this comment. But I do not understand why it is on this thread?<br>

WW</p>

<p>This is why...</p>

<p>"Since I would need a small aperture, I think the 17-50 is the best lens to use since it has IS. Oh, and I would be using a tripod as well."</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your help everyone. I'm sorry, I did mean to say that I would use the Canon 17-85 because of the IS and I'm very happy you guys told me about not using the IS while on a tripod. I am going to research that more along with the other recommendations made. I really appreciate everyone's help. There are a lot of knowledgable people here.</p>

<p>Thanks Nadine, my brain is fading :). <br>

Sorry for my oversight, Bruce.<br>

***<br>

Nicole: <br>

<br>

By way of further explanation: I selected your Tamron lens as the “best” lens to use and confined my answer to it. Note also I was only giving you an example of where you might start and not suggesting that my data is answer always, for the best solution. Each shot is different.<br>

<br>

The reason I chose the Tamron Lens (and not your Canon17-85mm) was because you asked: <em><strong>"I am wondering what is the biggest aperture I can use . . ."</strong></em> <br>

I took that to mean you wanted to use the biggest aperture available / possible – but still wanted good IQ etc. <br>

The Tamron Zoom lens is a NON varying maximum aperture zoom, thus I figured it would be reasonably sharp at 24mm and at F4. <br>

The Canon zoom however, would be likely less sharp at the maximum aperture when it was set at FL = 24mm, and at that Focal Length, it is likely the Maximum Aperture would be about F4.5.<br>

WW</p>

 

<p>for low light situation f5.6 or even f4 will suffice IMO. bump up your iso, btw there are many post here discussing group shots so try searching.</p>

<p>That's a rather large group C Jo (not typical wedding). How wide of a lens did you use or were you waaaay back? IMO, I would have cloned out the fence in the background. Nicely done though.</p>