Anyone shoot with the new Bowens Creo studio light generator?

<p>I currently shoot with the Bowens Explorer 1500 w/s studio light generator pack with two quad heads. I have been reading about the new Creo 2400w/s which has a flash duration of 1/7700 sec and other interesting features. My Bowens Explorer shoots at 1/5600 sec flash duration which is fine for now, but even faster flash duration would be nice. Anyone shoot with the Bowens Creo studio light pack generators? Will the Bowens old quad heads work with the new Bowens Creo?</p>

<p>Bowens Creo 2400w/s generator<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/897983-REG/Bowens_BW_9000US_CREO_2400_GENERATOR_WITH.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/897983-REG/Bowens_BW_9000US_CREO_2400_GENERATOR_WITH.html</a></p>

<p>EDIT: The Bowens Explorer actually has a 1/5700 sec flash duration not 1/5600.</p>

<p>Anyone try the new Bowens Creo? They make also a 1200 w/s pack. They dont have a new portable DC generator studio light pack like the Explorer yet that I know of.</p>

<p>If you're up against the wall with your Explorer, the Creo really isn't going to feel any different. You need a different kind of flash. The Creo packs get their faster speeds by switching out capacitors. They only do the fastest duration at 600 W-s (not w/s, incidentally) or below, which means they've essentially turned themselves into Explorers.</p>

<p>That cap-switching trick gives Creo 2400 a t0.5 of 1/5000 sec, according to the Creo 1200/2400 manual (where did you get 1/7700 sec?). That 600 W-S is the "sweet spot". Use more power, the duration gets longer as more caps are switched back in. Use less power, it charges the caps, and it charges them to a lower voltage, so current drops and duration increases.</p>

<p>1/5000 t0.5 is not very fast. t0.5 is an obsolete number, the time where the flash has produced 1/2 the exposure. It helps you set the shutter speed on a leaf shutter camera, but tells you nothing about the flash's motion stopping ability. The number you want, the actual motion stopping ability, is t0.1. That's the time that it takes for the flash to be down to 1/10 power, and even then, you get ghosting. The t0.1 time is 3x the t0.5 time for conventional flashes, or 1/1666 sec at 600 W-S (about 1/416 sec at full power, 1/833 sec at minimum power). Because it's a worse looking number, makers of slow flashes don't publish it.</p>

<p>That "different kind of flash" I referred to earlier is called an IGBT flash. It works by switching off the flash tube at low power settings, si as you lower the power, the duration gets lower, too. The Broncolor Scoro is the Rolls Royce of IGBT flashes, and is priced accordingly, about 2-3x the price of a Bowens Creo. The Paul Buff "Einstein" is a popular 640 W-s IGBT monolight that hits 1/2040 sec at 1/2 power (320 W-s). IGBT flashes turn off, they don't wait for caps to die down, so their stated durations are even cleaner and have less ghosting than t0.1 numbers, so nothing you can do with a Creo looks as good as an Einstein at 1/2 power. It just keeps getting better as you turn it down: it exceeds 1/10,000 sec at 1/16 power.</p>

<p>Aside from the IGBT Broncolor and the Buff, there's also the Photogenic Solaire line, and possibly something new from StroBeam, and that's about it.</p>

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<p>If you're up against the wall with your Explorer, the Creo really isn't going to feel any different.<br>

where did you get 1/7700 sec?</p>

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<p>My cheapo Vivitar 285HV flash gun beats most studio strobes at 1/30000 sec :D</p>

<p>Joseph, thank you for the response, I agree with you on some points but not everything. I did want to hear from professional photographers that were actually using the Bowens Creo (that was the point of the thread) but it doesnt look like that may happen as the Bowens Creo is really new. Also I should have clarified I am looking for studio strobes that can deliver fast flash duration @ full power not min power for outdoor use. As you pointed out the highest flash durations on the Bowens Creo are @ min power and this is the norm for most studio strobes. It looks like the Bowens Explorer really is the best choice for me as you pointed out, its more the exception offering 1/5700 sec flash duration at 1000 W/s or even 1/4170 sec at 1500 W/s enough for stop motion and something I need in full sun outdoor locations, so I decided to stay with what I have.</p>

<p>First though a few of your statements are incorrect:</p>

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<p>W-s (not w/s, incidentally)</p>

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<p>1)It can be written Ws, W/s or W-s. Most professional photographers including myself , Garry Edwards of Photo.net and photographic dealers have either written W/s or Ws. Below is a link right here from Photo.net ... great info on studio lighting written by Garry Edwards who writes: "Power is expressed in Joules (J), or watt seconds <strong>(usually abbreviated to W/s)</strong>..." No need to split hairs on this trivial stuff ..moving on. :D</p>

<p><a href="/learn/lighting/choosing-studio-lighting/">http://www.photo.net/learn/lighting/choosing-studio-lighting/</a></p>

<p>2) The Bowens Creo is indeed 1/7700 second flash duration @ min power on both the 2500 W/s and 1200 W/s studio light packs. Check out the link directly from Bowens. Technically 1/7692 sec but rounded 1/7700 sec (again not going to be splitting hairs!) Bowens Creo 1/7692 second flash duration<br>

http://www.bowensdirect.com/index.php/generators/creo-2400.html</p>

<p>3) The fastest (commercially available - I am sure the good folks at NASA have stuff in the works thats in the 1/100,000 + sec flash duration range) studio strobe in the world today is not Paul Buffs Einstein E640 at 1/13,000 sec but the <strong>Hensel Speed Max Monolight</strong> is the world's fastest studio light that I know of at a <strong>whopping 1/66,600 sec</strong>. Even the t0.1 value is apx. 1/22,000 sec ... more than enough for any stop-motion photography.<br>

Hensel Speed Max monolight 400 W/s<br>

<a href="http://www.hensel.eu/en/products/compact-flash-devices/speed-max.html">http://www.hensel.eu/en/products/compact-flash-devices/speed-max.html</a><br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755814-REG/Hensel_3050_Speed_Max_Monolight.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755814-REG/Hensel_3050_Speed_Max_Monolight.html</a></p>

<p>Other contenders besides Hensel is Speedotron and Dynalite which offer "bi-tube" or "quad-tube" heads. With the Dynalite 4080sp head you can use on a M2000 power pack it will deliver 2000 true Ws at 1/2600th duration. This is more the direction I am going. Yes Broncolor and Profoto are indeed the " gold standard" for studio shoots requiring high speed flash duration such as needed product photography shots, (pouring liquid from beverages) but this is restricted to in the studio with mini power levels in the dark or low light not outdoors on location with ambient light or in large sports arenas. Still the Bowens Explorer still has one of the fastest flash durations of any portable studio strobe including Broncolor, Profoto and Elinchrom.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.timothyarmes.com/blog/2009/05/choosing-a-battery-pack-flash-system/">http://www.timothyarmes.com/blog/2009/05/choosing-a-battery-pack-flash-system/</a></p>

<p>Well, glad you found part of it useful, at least.</p>

<p>I did try to keep to the POV that there are only basically two kinds of flashes out there, so there's not going to be anything "magical" about the Creo compared to other packs in its price range. I should probably clarify that in the future with an explanation of "cap switching". Lots of flashes have that, but it's usually manual. Automatic cap switching is nice. I had a flash that did that manually, and I was always forgetting to actually use that feature. Again, it doesn't matter in your case, because you want power and speed:</p>

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<p>Also I should have clarified I am looking for studio strobes that can deliver fast flash duration @ full power not min power for outdoor use. As you pointed out the highest flash durations on the Bowens Creo are @ min power and this is the norm for most studio strobes.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The Creo delivers its shortest (fastest) duration at 1/4 power. It gets worse if you either increase or decrease the power. That's a weird side effect of cap-switching flashes. Bowens is being rather confusing about the duration, though. The sale blurb you linked says 1/7692 sec, but the actual manual says 1/5000. FWIW, both numbers could be right. Pack/head systems are so temperamental that their flash durations depend on the length of the cables, the condition and temperature of the flash tube, the condition and temperature of the capacitors, and even the particular motion you used plugging in the connectors (don't get me started on connectors, oxide layers, contaminants, and wiping-actions). Again, if you want something predictable, IGBT flashes are the only way to go.</p>

<p>Thank you for the info on the Hensel. I've been hearing about it shipping "real soon now" for about five years. I didn't know they actually managed to get them out the door. And yes, I'd hope that something that costs over 10x the price of an Einstein would beat it in duration. But you misstated the duration.</p>

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<p>but the <strong>Hensel Speed Max Monolight</strong> is the world's fastest studio light that I know of at a <strong>whopping 1/66,600 sec</strong>. Even the t0.1 value is apx. 1/22,000 sec ... more than enough for any stop-motion photography.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Like I said earlier, IGBT flashes don't really have a concept of t0.5 or t0.1. They don't decay the way conventional flashes do. Look at the oscilloscope pictures in the Hensel literature you linked. And remember, IGBT flashes are like "big speedlights", they really do have their shortest durations at minimum power. In the Hensel's case 1/128 power, or 3 W-s. </p>

<p>And honestly, that's not "more than enough for any stop-motion photography." It will handle anything you can do with humans, though. But there's a lot of us (and we're not all in NASA) who play with <a href="http://www.glacialwanderer.com/hobbyrobotics/?p=490">stuff like this</a>. Mine is down around 1/300,000 sec at 12 W-s, which is around 20x the performance (4.5x the speed, 4x the power) of the Hensel. It's scary to think about what it does, it's peak power is close to 5 million watts.</p>

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<p>It can be written Ws, W/s or W-s</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, it really can't. The unit is energy, which is power multiplied by time. J, Ws, or W-s. You can express power (that's "Watts") as "energy per time", so you can say J/s for Watts (sometimes done with continuous lighting, to calculate flash equivalence), but never the other way around. If you see someone writing W/s, take it as a "warning sign" that they know less than they're purporting to know.</p>

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<p>Most professional photographers including myself , Garry Edwards of Photo.net and photographic dealers have either written W/s or Ws.</p>

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<p>Remember how your dad used to say "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?" Fix mistakes, don't propagate them.</p>

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<p>It can be written Ws, W/s or W-s<br>

No, it really can't.<br>

Yes it can!<br>

split hairs: <em>Fig.</em> to quibble; to try to make petty distinctions<br />to argue about whether details that are not important are exactly correct</p>

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<p>LOL!!! Sorry Joseph, I am not buying that baloney. If professional photographers and studio lighting companies are using W/s or Ws thats good enough for me! I rarely see W-s really but even if I did I sure wouldnt make a fuss about it whether it was correct or not. You still are on this splitting hairs on the really trivial...! Last time I checked your portfoilo I got this: Unknown Account. LOL. You dont have even one photo to share with us. Thats OK if you are not really a photographer but maybe a engineer/technician but please dont make such ridiculous statements. While some of the best photographers here on Photo.net and anywhere many whom are published use W/s all the time. I will say no more on this. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>But there's a lot of us (and we're not all in NASA)<br />A sub-microsecond flash means the flash duration is less than 1/1,000,000th of a second<br>

<strong><em>Do not build one! If you go against my advice and do build one, I am not responsible for any injury, death, or any other problems it causes</em></strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ok that link you did share was pretty cool I admit. I didnt even know what a sub-microsecond flash was or that it could travel <em>1/1,000,000th of a second flash duration </em>, I had no idea that was even possible. And the DIY schematics and kits for building one was cool too. But based on the warning above I would never build one of these experimental strobes ...they look dangerous!! BTW I am glad you like the Hensel studio strobe link, I have shot with Hensel studio lights before ...AMAZING studio lights, very crisp!! I havent shot with <strong>Hensel Speed Max Monolight </strong>yet, but at 1/66,600 I am thinking about it and thats about the fastest flash duration I would ever need.</p>

 

<p>People die from what you call "hair splitting". I have seen professionals occasionally use W/s, but I've seen more of them use the correct Ws or W-s. I have never seen an equipment maker use W-s. That would be irresponsible.</p>

<p>I don't know why you needed to go off into personal attacks, but that is as far as I read in your comment, and as far as I'm going to read. Done here.</p>

<p>The only thing I was saying is that many professional photographers here including myself in the photographic community use W/s and Ws. Nobody here is giving you personal attacks. Sorry dude, I just dont see any photos in your portfoilo, which is kind of a red flag. But thats OK too, photography is both science and art, so if you are a technician or engineer that is OK. Lots of talented repair technicians out there that cant create an original artistic photograph...and they are OK with that. And lots of talented photographers that cant repair photographic equipment or design a experimental flash that can free motion at 1/1,000,000th of a second. There is room for everyone here. Peace out.</p>

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<p>Remember how your dad used to say "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?" Fix mistakes, don't propagate them.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Quite.<br>

Joseph.. if you want to be taken seriously you need to show AT LEAST two photographs. It helps if they're of cats, women, flowers or landscapes and then, dude, only then, you might be considered worthy of stating facts.</p>

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<p>if you want to be taken seriously you need to show AT LEAST two photographs. It helps if they're of cats, women, flowers or landscapes...</p>

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<p>LOL! I actually agree with this...with the EXCEPTION of cat photos!! Photo.net or anywhere else does not need any more cat photos... Please please no more cat photos!! :D</p>

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<p>if you want to be taken seriously you need to show AT LEAST two photographs. It helps if they're of cats, women, flowers or landscapes...</p>

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<p>But yeah <em>you</em> may not appreciate these subjects you consider cliche and mention with sarcasm lol...but a lot of people do appreciate these subjects including myself. And they can be "cliche" if the art is "boring" or if badly executed...but done right its beautiful, classic and timeless. Amazing how master painters/photographers spend a lifetime mastering the simplicity and beauty of those "cliche subjects". In my book these subjects are beautiful, classic and timeless... :D</p>

<p>Photographer Peter Essick pays tribute to Ansel Adams<br /> <strong>Landscapes</strong><br /> <a href="http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/ansel-adams-wilderness/img/ansel-adams-wilderness-1_1600.jpg">http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/ansel-adams-wilderness/img/ansel-adams-wilderness-1_1600.jpg</a></p>

<p><strong>Flowers</strong><br /> Mexican Poppies by Photographer Peter Essick<br /> <a href="http://peteressick.com/americanwilderne.html">http://peteressick.com/americanwilderne.html</a>#</p>

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<p>But yeah <em>you</em> may not appreciate these subjects you consider cliche and mention with sarcasm lol..</p>

 

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<p>The sarcasm was injected because in fact you only have <strong>two</strong> photographs in your 'extensive portfolio', both women - yet you chose to criticise others based on their lack of images whilst at the same time using your <strong>two</strong> photographs to argue against <strong>fact</strong>.</p>

<p>As Joseph said: Done Here.</p>

 

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<p>But yeah <em>you</em> may not appreciate these subjects you consider cliche and mention with sarcasm lol..</p>

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<p>The point was you offended every photographer here that ever shot "landscapes", "flowers" ...ect maybe you missed that? <strong>And you still dont have the facts straight</strong> if you agree that writing w/s is incorrect.</p>

<p>Are you trolling/hijacking the thread? Last time I checked I was the OP and you havent contributed one useful word to the forum. Not a one. You only came in to argue? And yes two photos or at least one photo should be the minimum dont you think? If you dont have any photos at least have your facts straight. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Just an update here if any one has used these new Bowens Creo lighting pack and head systems? PLEASE feel free to chime and share your experience with these lights.</p>

<p>Here is great advert on the Bowens Creo studio lighting. I have founds several photographers that have made incredible photos with this new pack/head lighting gear from Bowens!<br /> <a href="http://www.bowensusa.com/skin/frontend/default/caramel/images/creo-banner.jpg">http://www.bowensusa.com/skin/frontend/default/caramel/images/creo-banner.jpg</a></p>

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<p>if you want to be taken seriously you need to show AT LEAST two photographs. It helps if they're of cats, women, flowers or landscapes...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>LOL!!! This statement still makes laugh. Just to be crystal clear here: first of all I do have an extensive portfoilo ... you are right about that, but Photo.net only allows 5 photo slots for free, you know that. Be civil and stop trolling the forum threads starting arguments....please.</p>

<p>Second nothing wrong with shooting women, flowers, landscapes...as a professional photographer I shoot these subjects all the time and some of the greatest photographers in history have also shot these same subjects. Third since you reviewed my portfoilo I finally had a chance to review yours: In my opinion besides having the most generic name for a website ever "commercial photographer" ? It is perhaps the most boring portfoilo I have ever seen! Your photos of industrial engines, trains, headphones....made me fall asleep. Based on your comments/portfoilo you should NOT be critiquing anyone.</p>

<p>Everyone finds different subjects interesting for Art, please dont criticize others for what they like.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>W/s, take it as a "warning sign" that they know less than they're purporting to know. </p>

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<p>Yes, all these W/s people are know-nothings despite the fine work they produce.<br>

</p>

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<p>People die from what you call "hair splitting". I have seen professionals occasionally use W/s, but I've seen more of them use the correct Ws or W-s.</p>

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<p>Yes, the last time I vacuously typed in W/s, the computer exploded and set the studio on fire.<br>

<br>

</p>

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<p>Yes, the last time I vacuously typed in W/s, the computer exploded and set the studio on fire.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Marc thanks for writing that ... this made me laugh. You make a great point! :) Yeah I almost put "caution tape" on my keyboard "/" key button.</p>

<p>Its ridiculous and unprofessional how some forum posters make a big deal out of trivial stuff or troll the forums starting arguments...ect. As a professional photographer I believe forums should be always productive / constructive and not waste others time. Time is valuable.<br>

Happy holidays Marc!</p>

<p>Just about to purchase this, how high a shutter can this sync to. only 1/320? or 1/500 as the BH guy told me :) any practical experience with this is awesome thank guys </p>

<p>Just about to purchase this, how high a shutter can this sync to. only 1/320? or 1/500 as the BH guy told me :) any practical experience with this is awesome thank guys </p>

 

 

The max sync speed with studio strobes will depend mainly on your camera. Depending on which camera model you have and if is focal plane shutter (FPS) usually about 1/125s or medium format central leaf shutter (CS) up to 1/1000s or if you are lucky and have the Leica S camera (switchable with both FPS / CS). On FPS cameras you could *tweak* with Pocketwizard Hypersync feature but the most you could squeeze out is somewhere 1/250~1/500 again this depends mainly on your camera and a very slow studio strobe flash duration. The new Generation X Bowens XMS monolights will sync at 1/8000s with HSS/TTL but only with the new Canon, Nikon and Sony camera shoe mount Bowens XMTR triggers. That said, unfortunately the max power you will ever get as of today with the new Bowens XMS monolights is 1000 w/s. If you want more power you have to go with pack & head studio lights. Bowens Explorer at 1500 w/s, Bowens Creo at 2400 w/s or the older Bowens Quad / Duo at 4800 w/s. The vintage Bowens pack and heads lights are excellent and will last a lifetime so it depends if you need more flash duration or power. If you want both power and flash duration/ high sync HSS then your best bet is something like a pack and head Profoto Pro-10 studio strobe. For me anything more than 1/5000 flash duration is more than plenty! :D

 

As of 2018 Bowens has liquidated / downsized and now is no longer making pack and head studio strobes so you have to find old stock or used studio lights, all the new monolights are distributed through Manfrotto now, Bowens is mostly online mail order today and their lights can be found at BH Photo and a very few other scarce brick and mortar stores.

FWIW, the graph below shows a typical flash discharge curve for any non-IGBT or thyristor snubbed unit. It always has an exponential shape, and the 0.1t point is always many times longer than the 0.5t point.