Another purple Tmax question

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by aaronfalkenberg, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. Is there any way to know if it is the fixer or HCA that is losing strength
    when the negs still have a tint?

  2. After fixing just soak in water and wetting agent for 30 mins and the tint clears.
  3. It's the fixer that's getting weak.
  4. Hi Andrea,

    at some point these will be exhausted (the tint is hardly visible) so they are still somewhat active) so I'd like to be able to know which one to increase time on/pour out and which one is still strong.

    Also, is there any harm in over CLEARING the film for, say, 4 min - double the recommended 2 min?

  5. William, thanks. How do you know? I've actually been told that it is the HCA that is getting weak, but I never get any reasons for one or the other.

  6. You can test your fix by the clearing time of your film. Double this time for classical films and triple this time for the Tgrain/Delta films when you are fixing the film.
    Your can test if your fix is exhausted by the KI test. Commercial kits are also available and they normally do till 3g/ltr. silver in the working solution fixer as safe.

    About the purple color dye, especially in Tmax, Delta and some other films. Your wash cycle should be long enough and when you go a bit up in temperature it is going out faster. Also a HCA (hypo clearing agent) will help both to get a quicker wash of your fix and the dye. Also UV light will help to get rid of it.
  7. "B&W Photo - Film & Processing Forum: Negatives, film base residual tint"
  8. Aaron, check out the Kodak tech sheet for TMax, here Look under "Final Steps" near the bottom of the page....
  9. "Der "Rosastich" steht in keinerlei Zusammenhang mit der Qualit䴠der Fixierung. Die r�tliche Einf䲢ung wird durch Reste von Sensibilisierungfarbstoff verursacht, die von ILFORD verwendeten Farbstoffe l�sen sich in einem alkalischen Umfeld. Der L�wenanteil davon verschwindet daher bereits im Entwickler, abh䮧ig von dessen Alkalit䴬 der Entwicklungszeit usw. In einem sauren Umfeld werden diese Farbstoffe stabilisiert, l�sen sich daher auch schlecht in einem (leicht sauren) Fixierbad.....
    Es gibt keine Notwendigkeit die F䲢ung um jeden Preis beseitigen zu wollen, sie beeintr䣨tigt weder die Haltbarkeit der Filme, noch deren Bildqualit䴬 auch nicht bei der Verwendung von Gradationswandelpapier. Will man sie unbedingt (aus kosmetischen Gr�nden) eliminieren, dann hilft ein leichtes Alkalibad (z.B.Natriumcarbonat = Soda) zur Entf䲢ung nach dem Fixieren. Geduldige Fotografen warten einfach einige Wochen, dann ist die F䲢ung von alleine verschwunden, da die Farbstoffreste von selbst verbleichen - ohne irgendwelchen Schaden zu verursachen.

    Matthias Schneege
    ILFORD Imaging GmbH"

    According the product specialist from Ilford. The more iodide in the T grain or Delta films will block the fix process earlier and thats why the capacity of the fix is more limited than classical films. A light magenta color will disappear by a longer wash or in time (UV light) and this color has no negative effect on the lifetime of your negatives nor the print quality nor the use of VC papers.
  10. Hi all, thanks for the ton of info!

    With fresh chemicals my 4min fix, quick rinse, 2min HCA, and 4min continuous wash routine works perfectly. In my most recent batch I decided to double the time of the HCA and keep all other times the same. It worked, so I'm happy.

    Is there any harm in doubling or even tripling the HCA time?

    Robert, what is this KI kit and where can I get it? It would be nice if everything could just change colour like Indicator Stop Bath.

  11. There is just a discussion on APUG about the wash methods of the film:

    Even some very experienced photographers and people who are even writing dark room books are not fully agree with the results.

    About your question: At a certain moment HCA is hardly working any more.
    The use of a HCA for shorting the film wash is not spectaculair. 1/3 th of the regular time which is 15-20 minutes. A baryt photo paper which has a regular wash cycle of 30-60 minutes is more interesting.

    PotasiumIodide (sorry for the mistakes in the technical English) is the stuff to check the amount of silver ions in your used fix. Use 10ml fix and a few drops of the test fluid: If it stays milky you are over the 3g/ltr. silver limit. Otherwise you can still use your fix.
    Here you can buy it in the Netherlands we are located:

    Great info Eur. 1,71 for 125ml which is enough for the next 5-10 years or so.

    Best regards,

  12. Thanks Robert, you have been most helpful!

  13. Just to give the pot one more stir, I have used the Ilford Method of film washing for about 9-10 years. None of my negatives shows any sign of deterioration. However, being a belt-and-braces man, I added an extra cycle of 40 inversions to the Ilford regime despite their assurances that the 5/10/20 regime achieves archival standards.

    For the last two years I have also been using two-bath fixing as a consequence of reading the Gudzinowicz paper.

    Recently, as a result of difficulty getting hold of indicating stop-bath, I made my own from 80 percent acetic acid diluted 1+19 plus bromocresol purple. I overdid the addition of bromocresol purple with the result that the stop-bath is deep orange and stains the film quite markedly. In the wash phase the bromocresol purple turns blue due to the alkalinity of the water, but this serves as an indicator of the efficiency of the wash.

    The water from the last cycle of 40 inversions is pale blue indicating that some bromocresol purple is still present at the commencement of the last cycle, but since BP is a biological stain I am guessing that its tendency to remain absorbed in the gelatin is much greater than that of the fixer.

    All in all, I am as certain as I can be that two-bath fixing and the Ilford Method of washing delivers negs which are durable in the long term.
  14. "It's the fixer that's getting weak."

    The purple tint indicates inadequate washing. If you don't wash vigorously enough, you'll still have the tint with new fixer. If you are just putting your negs under running tap water or something similar, there isn't enough agitation to fully wash them even if you leave them go for 20-30 minutes.

    Use something like the ilford method, with vigorous inversions. You can watch the purple lighten as you pour out the successive baths of wash water.
  15. T-Max films have a deep purple backing layor that can be a pain to get off if you are using even slightly exausted fixer. This can be changed by fixing longer, or by using new fixer.
    Go to any Pro Photo store (not in the mall) and ask them for a small bottle of HYPO-CHECK.
    This stuff comes in a small little squeeze bottle. Just add Two drops into your fixer. If nothing happens, your fixer is still good. If the drops turn into a bright white snot looking blob, then it is time to get new stuff.
  16. Edwal offers a Hypo Check to test the exhaustion of fixer. Would recommmned using Hypo Clearing Agent or Perma Wash as a one shot working solution, and increase the wash time by 5 minutes from your standard. If there is a still a color cast after drying the film; exposure it to sunlight until the color cast disappears, 10 to 30 minutes. This will solve your problem. In addition, you can perform this procedure with any black and white film that may have a color cast, pink, magenta, etc. I follow this procedure with Kodak and Ilford films.

    Good luck

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