an out of focus wedding, please help

Hi everyone,

 

I guess this one of a focusing issue in general. I often see beautiful and soft wedding portraits shot probably

with a prime lens at f2, with subject's eyes ultra sharp, ears, and neck well out of focus. I saw some full body

shot recently on Jessica Claire's website, shot with 200mm f2, the subjects are all in focus and background

nicely blurred. I am just starting, would really like to know how this is achieved.

 

I started out shooting with a 20D and a 17-85 mm lens, and only recently bought a 70-200 mm f2.8 lens to shoot

events. I could not seem to find consistency in shooting sharp images. The focus is often off. I have become

increasingly exasperated during the shoot because of this (never a good thing). I found that if I use the

70-200mm to take a waist-up shot, with 9-point auto focus, often only the subject's neck is sharp in the

middle, not the face; if I use one-point focus, first of all, I found it is difficult in events, or weddings, as

one needs to dial to change the focus in lightening speed; secondly I usually need to reframe the shot using the

focus locking mechanism, but at f2.8, slightly move throws the focus out. I will get one eye in focus if I am

lucky. so now if I have a choice, I don't shoot lower than f 4. I rented a 24-70mm lens last week, and found

myself in the same sort of set of problem. I have my camera and lens re-serviced and checked but it did not

change a thing.

 

Perhaps, I thought, I should not use the 70-200mm to take half body length portraits until I get a more suitable

lens, but still, there is no way to focus better? I must be doing something wrong. I see tons of good sharp

pictures out there shot with wide open aperture. What is it that I am doing wrong? What is the proper way to

focus, let's say for a couple who is hold hands and standing one shoulder length apart in front of a wall? If I

shoot at 2.8 with one-point focus, one of them will be out of focus, if I use 9-point focus, frankly, often the

AF only gets the wall. MF seems to slow for me to use when "capture the moment" is at the core of the business.

 

What do you do? and please help, any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Can you get the effect you want with just the center autofocus point (which is the most accurate point) and focus-recompose when you have a single subject?

 

I doubt you can get the effect you want at f/2 with two or more people in the frame just because their eyes are unlikely to both be in the plane of focus. It's not a technique for use with groups unless you are doing careful studio work perhaps.

 

If you are setting up to shoot a lot of head-shoulders portraits, dial your autofocus sensor to be the one closest to the eyes when you frame a shot in vertical orientation, and then shoot in that orientation without adjusting the autofocus point. the goal is to focus-recompose with a minimum of movement (so as to not disturb the plane of focus).

 

try your shots on a tripod with a willing test subject and see what it takes to get what you want at different apertures.

 

This seems to be a technique issue, and if you want to master the technique it will take careful experimentation. shoot 3 or 4 shots with various settings and a test subject, and then review them... choose new settings/technique and try again... until you're getting consistent results.

Just to help you get the possiblities nailed down, visit this simple <a href="http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html" target="_blank"><b>online depth of field calculator</b></a>. You just plug in some simple info, including the focal length, aperture, and distance from the camera to the subject(s)... and you'll see the laws-of-physics reality about what can and cannot be in focus.

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If you've got more than one set of eyes you need to have in focus, you need to make sure that they're in the same plane, and that that plane is parallel with the plane of your camera's sensor. Everything you need to have in focus needs to be the same distance from the camera.... and the more shallow the DoF, the more true that is.

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Technique-wise, I'd definitely just stick with the central focus point. Half-press your shutter, get focus lock on those eyes, and then just re-frame. For a dynamic group of subjects, being covered with a wide-open lens, that's the only way to fly. You've got to take control over what's in focus - very deliberately. At longer focal lengths, you've got mere inches of in-focus space with which to work.

Super shallow depth of field makes for really neat images, but if you are doing portraits, make sure the eyes are in focus. If you are shooting

wide open, use the center weighted focus point to focus on your subject, lock it (usually holding the button down halfway) then recompose

your shot. Never trust an autofocus to focus where you want it to.

Even better with less hassle.

 

Bring into Photoshop. Select the subject and invert selection or select the background, whichever is easier. Apply

Gaussian to the background.

 

You will probably need to use the refine edge under filters to soften the transition between subject and background so it

does not look like a cut out pasted on. You can control it after the fact for precise effect. It also is easier than carrying

a 200 2.0 lens. And faster. Further i am not sure brides want only their eyes in focus. Save that for some other

photography.

 

A soft focus can be applied to the subjects also.

I found out sometimes, hand-shaking might be the problem...even though you think you are pretty stable, but, your hands shake while you

press the btn. I notice this because I shoot 85/1.4, and it is difficult to be sharp on every single image...but, it is beautiful depth of field.

Thanks for posting this question Mimi as I have the same problem - I had just put it down to lack of experience! I have a 2.8 and 1.8 lens and find it hard getting the focus spot on where I want it when wide open.

Mimi, a FULL BODY shot using a 200mm @ f/2 means that Jessica was a fair distance away from the subject. As the distance to subject

gets greater, so does the Depth of Field at any

given f stop.

 

If she had been close to the subject (for example, a head shot,) the depth of field for a 200mm @ f2 would be much thinner.

 

Focus, recompose with really fast lenses like a 200mm f/2 is one sure way to get more out of focus shots than normal ... unless you

recompose in a perfect side moving parallel line with the subject matter.

 

That is physics.

 

It is better to learn how to swiftly use the AF point selector to minimize recomposing with off-center subjects. Which is why they put an AF

array in cameras.

Unfortunately there is no clear answer since the solutions to your described focusing problems touch on many different areas of photographic technique, not just focusing the lens.

 

First, you should eliminate whether the lens you have is focusing accurately and not backfocusing or front focusing with the body you have, which means you also have to eliminate whether it is your focusing technique. The 20D's autofocus is particularly slippery. Do some research and you'll find plenty of posts. This is due to the actual focus points being larger than the marked points on the focus screen, which can cause the focus to snag onto something behind your intended focus point, particularly if you focus near the edge of a subject, or the subject is small and/or you are using the wider angles. It can help to put the focus on the * button to separate focus from the shutter button, focusing more than once to minimize drifting, and focusing on something else on the same plane for wide shots. You also need to give your focus points a contrasty surface or the focus tends to drift to a contrasty surface.

 

Eliminating actual and true back/front focus problems can also be researched. There are targets you can download to test whether your combination of lens and camera are focusing correctly. Many people that have focus problems, though, think it is the gear, when it is their technique. I have also heard of more than one case of the 24-70mm lens backfocusing, so the rented lens may have had that problem (particularly with the 20D). I know for a fact that the 5D is much better with autofocus in general than my 20D. And I would never use automatic or 9 point autofocus.

 

There are many pros and cons re focus/recompose. It is a fact, though, that using wide apertures with focus/recompose is risky. However, for shots not using a wide or wide open aperture, and many times even then, if you know the pitfalls, you can use focus/recompose successfully, especially when you don't have time to focus carefully. Knowing how to flip to the various focus points quickly, though, is extremely helpful. I have my 20D set to use the joystick directly for flipping to the exact focus point. Those shots of one eyelash in focus are definitely done using the exact or closest focus point to the eyelash (also using your brain and knowledge of DOF). So mastering several different focusing techniques and knowing when to use them is the thing to do--don't just use one focus technique and expect it to work in all situations.

 

Then there is DOF and knowing what kind of DOF you can get with what apertures, at what distances, at what focal lengths, for what subjects. Check out the DOF calculator suggested above. You don't have to memorize it. Just think about the kinds of situations you encounter and look up several 'what if' situations to get an idea of the DOF you need for them.

 

So to answer your question about the couple against the wall, my simple answer would be, if f2.8 means one is OOF, use f4 or smaller since obviously, the DOF at f2.8 at the focal length and subject distance you chose isn't getting the depth needed. If the couple's faces were on the same plane, you wouldn't be having this problem. Beyond that, if it were me and the 20D, I would focus on a contrasty surface well within a subject's edges, focus/recompose if I am not at extreme angles to the subject. I don't have as much problems with slippery focus on the 20D with telephotos as I do with the wider angles.

Old school , I know >> But, I still manually focus 75% of all shots ------- keeping the f/stop at 5.0 or better on our 28-70 L 2.8 ... & focus on the eyes.

Marc said: "Mimi, a FULL BODY shot using a 200mm @ f/2 means that Jessica was a fair distance away from the subject"

 

Exactly what I was thinking. I shoot group shots sometimes with my 2.8 70-200 lens. Sure it is an IS but I used to shoot with a Tamron 80-200.

 

Just to give you an idea - I shoot the group or the couple with my 35-70 - grab the 70-200 and move back about 10-15 feet or more to shoot with that lens. If you are too close - you'll have a shorter depth of field and will have problems.

Matt Laur said "You've got to take control over what's in focus - very deliberately". Jackpot! Exactly what I cannot achieve with consistency at the moment. With the same camera, same lens, I assume same techniques, I get sharp and non sharp images half half I'd say. And that is driving me nuts really.

 

Great advice, everyone, thank you so much. It is definitely time for me to pay more attention to shooting technicality.

 

Do most of you agree that learning how to MF quickly is much better than trusting camera's AF system? What about shooting (even slow) moving objects?

 

The online DOF calculator seems very valuable as soon as I can get pass the math.

 

Nadine, your answer is thorough as usual. What do you mean by "have my 20D set to use the joystick directly for flipping to the exact focus point."? Sounds like something super useful and helpful.

 

Based on all your suggestions, I think that first, I will test the front/back focus problem by downloading some targets. Any specific suggestions as to where to go to to download?

 

Secondly, I will do focus testing with a person, at different distance and aperture, and try A) center weight focus then re-frame; B) dial the AF points; C) selecting more contrasty points on the same focal plane for better results.

 

Are there other things I must try in order to achieve consistency? Thank you so much again.

If I do you AF --I use a button on the backside of the Canon for focusing ...never the trigger button ...I zoom out to 70mm > AF > and then Zoom back to fire ........

Make the effort to read the info on DOF Master, and make yourself the in field calculator. I did, and carry it with me to consult with.

 

Manual focus is great but there ARE times you need autofocus, and to tell the truth, I hardly ever use manual focus anymore. When you get good autofocus results, you trust it. I did change the screen in my 20D, though, to a split prism screen, which does help when using manual focus.

 

The joystick is referred to by Canon as the Multi-Controller. It is Custom Function 13-1. It eliminates one button press.

 

I'm not sure where those targets are--try googling and I'm sure you can find some. I use a ruler and some kind of small target folded so it sits parallel to the camera sensor plane. Just some contrasty text would work fine.

 

Again, do the research re 20D autofocus. And do your tests with the person. I did, and found that at certain wide angle focal lengths against a difficult target (foliage behind my subject), I couldn't get the 20D/16-35mm lens to focus correctly even if I followed my own advice re a focus point inside the subject, etc. Now when using wide focal lengths for say, a group shot, I sometimes focus on the feet of the group, assuming, again, the DOF isn't shallow and focus/recompose isn't going to fail me anyway.

NADINE :: That explains why I manual focus --I use a 20d with the 17-40 ...had a poor percentage of sharp images using AF ...so resorted to manual only. SO ::: was partially Canons product ...will wait until the bugs are out of the 5d MKII ~~ should be fine by next Spring, to pick one up.

Shooting manual focus will ensure that focus is where you want it for your portraits. Just be sure that the diopter correction is calibrated for your eyes... I recently screwed up a fun little model shoot because my new camera has that and I didn't even think about it.

C Jo--the plain 5D is much better re autofocus and focus/recompose. You might give it a try.

NADINE :: will try next in the near future ---film still a priority in my market this year .....the newest cameras will just become more affordable in time......thanks

First you should realize that when the 20D was in wide use it was well known to have autofocus problems, especially with the Canon 24-70mm f2.8 lens, but with other lenses as well. If you are serious about wedding photography replace the 20D with a 30D, 40D, 50D or even a new Rebel and you will find that alone will fix 80% of your problem. Autofocus performance has improved a lot over the last 3 years.

 

An alternative approach not mentioned but used by many shooters is to set up your camera so you can AF with the AF button and not the shutter and then lock focus, reframe and then shoot. You can easily look at your EXIF data and see if the OOF shots are ones with shutter speeds under 1/80th of a second at moderate focal lengths or under 1/200 with the 70-200 at 200mm. In the heat of the moment it is easy to move to quickly to get a candid shot and have your camera still in motion when the picture is shot.

 

DOF as mentioned can be a concern at long focal lengths and short distances. The 70-200 at 200mm and f2.8 is going to produce comparable results to the slower focusing 85mm at f1.4. The 200mm f2 lens produces great images but weighs about as much as a 400mm f2.8 tele, not something I want to carry around during the reception. One a crop camera the 135mm f2 is a much better choice providing a lighter, smaller, and much cheaper alternative with equal image quality and at 202mm FOV about the same perspective as the 200mm on a full frame camera.

I don't think using manual focus in a 20D without a split screen is a good idea. I've tried in the past and it is just to hard too tell if the image is in focus or not, the image in the viewfinder is just way too small. Even with a split screen it's extremely difficult to catch moving subjects unless you use a realtively small aperture. I would recommend sticking with single point auto focus for most situations and trying to get that to work for you.