Am I going to die of cancer? (developing photo paper)

I am building a simple pinhole camera out of an oatmeal box and plan to use photo paper. I may or may not get

bored with it right away - It's something to play around with.

 

Anyway, I went to the local photostore to get some paper and chemicals and ask a few questions on what kind of

paper, how long the chemicals last, etc. The girl pretty much chased me out of the store explaining I need a

real dark room and $500 of equipment and ventilation and all these photographers have died from lung cancer

because of developing film or somesuch.

 

All the references I read online say nothing about dieing of cancer. So I left empty handed.

 

Am I going to die developing photo paper in my laundry room?

Nobody knows..you might. However if you take normal precautions of ventilation and wear gloves, you certainly reduce the risks. I've been doing it for over 50 years now with no signs of cancer.

Use latex gloves when handling wet chemicals, makeshift some reasonable ventilation (like for example using a bathroom that already has a power vent and somesort of air inlet. If plugging air under the door with material forming a light-stop, try raising the decorative covers from the pipes going into the floor near the sink. Often air can enter from a crawl space. Assuming you don't already have a black-mold problem this should yield clean enough air. )

 

If you load the paper into a processing tube in a dark room without chemicals, then the bathroom -wet room need not be light tight.

 

Have fun.

 

If you like the hobby, decide how much the hobby will be worth to you before spending big bucks.

Lots of used equipment on ebay can make it cheaper.

If you are exposed to photographic chemicals, you will have a one in four chance of dying of cancer! On the other hand, if you are not so exposed, the probability will be 25%.

 

The goofy kid in the photo shop has her head firmly in her sigmoid. She may be under orders to discourage people from buying film, paper, and chemicals. (I have an idea this may be the policy in one of my local photo stores-- they know the profits are in selling you a new digital camera every year.)

 

What Terence said about equipping your darkroom is 100% correct. Darkroom equipment is practically being given away these days, and if you decide to, you can get a good setup very cheaply.

Are you going to die of lung cancer? Do you smoke? No, you will probably die of a heart attack (the leading cause of death in men).

 

Of course use good ventilation, at least reasonably good ventilation. My darkroom is the spare bathroom. I turn on the exhaust fan. Most laundry rooms have an exhaust fan.

 

Do you need to wear gloves? I do not; I use tongs to handle the prints and when developing film try not to splash chemicals on my hands. If I do, I wash them.

 

The data sheets for Dektol, Rodinal, DD-X, Kodak stop bath, and Ilford Fix do not mention cancer as a hazard. If it were even a remote hazard, the lawyers would have required a warning label.

 

Here is the MSDS for DD-X

 

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200844827511862.pdf

 

Note, no mention of cancer. They note "INHALATION Unlikely route of exposure as the product does not contain volatile substances."

 

Here is the MSDS for Rapid Fix

 

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2008448331904.pdf

 

"INHALATION No specific health warnings noted."

 

Heck, there is no warning for ingestion, but I would not suggest drinking the stuff. <grin>

 

The same for Stop Bath http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20084483320901.pdf

 

Although they do say it may cause "discomfort" if swallowed. (I still do not recommend drinking the stuff. <grin>)

 

Now Selenium toner is different. It will cause problems. If you swallow it, it will not cause cancer, but it will kill you outright; it is a poison. DON'T DRINK IT!!! Don't take a bath in it! Don't snort it!

 

I think the young lady you talked to has a vivid imagination or she is living far in the past - back in the 1800's. There were some nasty chemicals used back then.

"mad Hatter" becaused they used mercury Vapors to shape the felt hats.

But back then people DID cause harm by improper use of many things.

 

In truth, some of the complex color chemicals are bad smelling, I remember Cibachrome as One example.

The most common problem when using photo chemicals is a skin problem, You can become sensitized to the chemicals

best way is as they said Use adequate ventilation and avoid skin contact as much as possible.

 

I don't think there is much to be gained by developing slide film- most of the slide to print processes are now

no longer sold

and color negative C-41 film CAN be developed at home, but it is far more economical to have it done in a

reliable lab.

 

\The hazards of B&W processing are much less except for some toners and more exotic processes.

Film developer is usually quite dilute.

 

The previous poster is right about that whacko clerk.

some folks don't like ANY C H E M I C AS L S.

hP banned wite-out.

I torment my friends wife by telling her we heat with coal and the smoke and ash all blows over to NJ.

hey $130.00/ton VS $1,000.00 for the equivalent in heating oil. No Brainer for an old retired guy.

 

some folks are strange.

You have got be kidding me! The simple answer is NO, you are not going to have any problems.

 

If that were true about how "dangerous" the chemicals are, then I guess I'm in serious trouble. Because I just learned how to develop my own black and white film and pictures in March...and since then I've had so much fun with it that I've been going crazy and working almost every night in my darkroom. There was one time where it seemed like for 2 weeks straight I was either developing film or I was in the darkroom developing prints every night. Then the rest of my free time I was out taking more pictures.

 

My "darkroom" is just a homemade darkroom in the garage. It was just a small storage room. I don't even have running water in there, I just leave my prints in a tray with water and then take them back into the house for a final rinse and dry. I swear, I must have spent maybe $100 at the most to get started. I got my enlarger on eBay for $40. That was the most expensive thing.

 

It really does sound like that camera shop is pushing an agenda...trying to scare you, so you'll just give up and buy one of their new digital cameras that they're trying to unload.

 

I don't wear gloves. I guess I should, but really nothing has happened. Unless you really sensitive, the only thing that might happen is the fixer could irritate your skin a little. About the only thing that has happened to me is that my fingers might get a little red and feel dry, but that's about it. There have been nights where I got fixer and developer on my hands and I was too lazy to wash my hands because I just wanted to finish the prints. I was anxious to see how the pictures looked. So I just wiped my hands off on my pants and kept working. Nothing happened. My hands were fine.

 

The fumes really aren't that bad either. The developer has almost no smell to it. The only thing that has a little bit of a strong smell is the fixer, but it isn't that bad either. Run a small fan in your darkroom that pulls air in from the outside, or just step out once in a while to get some fresh air. Wash your hands before your eat and don't rub your eyes. But otherwise you'll be fine.

 

That girl was completely full of it and didn't know what she was talking about.

You'll be fine unless you drink the chemicals.

Thanks guys. I really wasn't too concerned since I hadn't really seen anything in the reading I had done. But, I'm glad the experts are out there. She was just so over the top with it, it was almost funny.

 

I have a DSLR, so they wouldn't be getting me on that. It's funny.. I have a DSLR, yet I have an interest in pinhole photography... weird.

Actually, the episode sounds MUCH more like it was a retail employee who had received The Lecture from management, as inspired by the corporate legal council, about not providing advice to people about casual use of chemicals in their home. All they need is one idiot to pass out in a sealed-off bathroom and to hit his head on the toilet... and presto, he sues the last person who gave him advice and who happens to work someplace that carries liability insurance: the retailer.<div></div>

If you decide to use gloves I would recommend the nitrile rubber type with no powder inside. You can order these online at reasonable prices from Gemplers. If you develop film for 100 years you can live a long time.

Well, next time you put gas in your car, remember you're exposed to at least a dozen major carcinogens including Benzene, and lots of other nasties. More likely to get cancer from that or the nitrates in your hot dog or baloney sandwich.

And that's just what this salesperson was spewing. Baloney! The only thing you're likely to handle which can be a carcinogen is the Formalin hardener in rapid fixer. You can omit the hardener for most films. But just think how much more forrnaldehyde you came into contact with when dissecting that frog in grade school.

I used to say "id die to have a darkroom," now I have one and im not dead yet.

 

Dont drink the chemistry, and dont go sniffing it for hours and be careful. But also remember, they arnt the first poisons you have used in your life and they wont be the last.

 

You are more likely to die driving to the store once to purchase the chemicals, than you are to die from any photographic related cause in your whole life, so dont get too hung up.

 

Good luck and have fun

I do recommend gloves though, because chemicals and whatnot can be absorbed through the skin. And some of them do remain in the body's tissues over time; it's not fully known what havoc they can cause over decades but more info is coming to light all the time as research techniques improve.

 

So, if you're going to get in the darkroom habit, set yourself up with some good habits. Gloves are probably most important, followed at a close second by ventilation.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be alarmist -- just encouraging y'all to take the long view. After all, we all want to still be lugging around our cameras and making our prints in our 80s and 90s, don't we? Might as well take these little steps to hedge your bets.

 

And hey, if you want toxic, try the printing industry. And lots of those people live a real long time....

I do recommend gloves though, because chemicals and whatnot can be absorbed through the skin. And some of them do remain in the body's tissues over time; it's not fully known what havoc they can cause over decades but more info is coming to light all the time as research techniques improve.

 

So, if you're going to get in the darkroom habit, set yourself up with some good habits. Gloves are probably most important, followed at a close second by ventilation.

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be alarmist -- just encouraging y'all to take the long view. After all, we all want to still be lugging around our cameras and making our prints in our 80s and 90s, don't we? Might as well take these little steps to hedge your bets.

 

And hey, if you want toxic, try the printing industry. And lots of those people live a real long time....

In printing the pigmented inkjet inks are often vented off with a giant hood over each machine; since the fumes are toxic. The home chap thinks that inkjet is this super clean thing. In chaps that repair toner based machines the stray toner is like smoking a few packs of coffin nails per day. One can also worry about that cellphone used close to ones brain; or running a stop light while chatting on one. Developer has made many folks hands react; gloves have been used by many when using developers; its menationed in the 1930's Kodak books. Formaldehyde from partical board furniture; shelving; kitchen cabinets, wall paneling has been know to be toxic for 1/2 century; with FEMA trailers now folks are investgating why many got sick post Katrina. The Wisdom of the 1960's was to "air out" your new furniture, house, trailer to get the fumes out. One has all the preservatives in food; mercury in ones teeth, UV rays around ones eyes, insectacides, lawn fertilizers; the salts in canned goods. Most folks dont have a sense of scale with dangers; the thing that puts you under might be your careless driving, falling, smoking; or that 100 to 200 Lbs of sugar folks each year.

Why not just get a pinhole for your DSLR?

All darkroom chemicals should be handled with care, and with the appropriate protective equipment (gloves etc.). Some are more hazardous than others, so it can make sense to use a safer alternative where available (e.g. a phenidone rather than hydroquinone-based developer). A few should be avoided altogether by anyone without the appropriate training. There are some quite good summaries here:

 

http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/arthazards/photo2.html

 

http://www.ehs.ufl.edu/HMM/photo.htm

 

Chemicals labelled as 'carcinogen' are those most likely to cause cancer, those labelled 'mutagen' may also do so, and there are other risks you should be aware of (e.g. some chemicals are corrosive or can sensitize your skin or are otherwise toxic). But there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to work very safely provided you take sensible precautions (just as you would when handling, say, strong household cleaning chemicals). Always read the label!

Well, we are all going to die of something, however, I wish to avoid real time experiments, though I have dipped my

hands in loads of stuff, most darkroom chemistry is relatively OK, but a pair of gloves makes them more OK.

 

As I understant it, all paper manufacturers reformulated about twenty years ago to remove Cadmium, and it is not

wise to recycle those old Cadmium plated fridge shelves on the BBQ (happened at a Geology Dept. picnic, and

people laughed at me, but the grill went in to the trash).

 

Old houses like mine leak so much air, they are actually safer, though the mice find easier access.

 

I would think with the limited amount of materials you need, you have little to worry about, though if you get some

rashes, you are more than likely alergic to something.

 

The Oatmeal tubes are unfortunately now topped with light piping plastic, so if you have one from Grandma's with the

old paper top, snag it. I actually wrote a letter to Quaker complaining, and they sent me 100 empty tubes. There

are work arounds, but I have a few of the old ones, and they worked as is.

 

The liquor bottle gift tubes from around the holidays (gift from the restaurant I frequent, lord knows the vile stuff never

passes my lips, though it is much harder to drink with a straw up my nose), seem to work fine, and you wll find your

imagination expanded via pinhole work. Tape the film in place, can mess things up when the film covers the pinhole,

a tube will capture an image beginning very close to the edge of the pinhole.

 

When I use it while traveling, I take a surplus military flashlight and use the red filters -- several-- at a distance as a

portable safelight, and I have found some surplus blue sensitive military films, or ortho materials. Some papers can

be made to work, but results vary. I remember a guy who used coffee cans in to which he could fit a 4x5 sheet of

film slightly bowed, but the lids need some sealing. Electrician's tape is light tight in general. New paint cans, old

popcorn tins, etc. A little flat black paint in the inside helps, do it outside of course.

 

Your darkroom needs are pretty simple as more than likely you will make contact prints, and much darkroom

equipment is available free on FreeCycle, Craig's List, and in your local photo stores if you are lucky to have a real

one. I mean a safelight, three trays, some basic chemistry, a light bulb, a sink, and some clothes pins. I know

people who try and give away enlargers as well.

 

Then you can get more serious if you wish, a cheap graphic with a missing lens, a ready made Leonardo camera, a

ready made cardboard camera from some company in Cincinnatti, Kodak's directions on using a 126 cartridge, and

right, a pair of gloves, maybe you could borrow next time you see your doctor? Read Eric Renner's books. I even

have a wood 8x10 field camera with some boards fitted with pinholes, some of the older ones go very cheaply at

Camera Shows.

"makeshift some reasonable ventilation"

 

WRONG! What you need is superb ventilation!!!!!

 

What worries me is the absolute certainty with which some of you dismiss the fact that all chemicals are hazardous. O.K. maybe that employee overreacted but that doesn't mean that you can work without precautions either. While some of these chemicals have certainly irritable aspects some are downright toxic.

 

For instance, hydrochinon is a chemical that you can easily develop a (cumulative) allergy from. Given the fact that you want to play around with pinhole then it's not impossible that you want to try your hand at some of the alternative processes and printing techniques like cyanotype. The chemicals used for that are highly toxic and can't be used without extensive precautions.

 

The best thing you can do is google all the chemicals you want to use. There is enough information to be found.

 

When used responsably and with the appropiate precautions (which means a helluva lot more than just using gloves) developing and printing can be done quite safely. For some processes though you need to take even more precautions. Just look it up as you go along.

 

Don't forget: ignorance often precedes regret.

"Well, next time you put gas in your car, remember you're exposed to at least a dozen major carcinogens including Benzene, and lots of other nasties"

 

poor analogy. While basically true it's something you do in the open air and not in a confined space.

Cyanotypes are harmless. Look up the ingredients: potassium ferricyanide and a solution of ferric ammonium citrate. The former is only an issue if you mix it with an acid- the latter seems quite benign. I think you are thinking of a different process (like about every other one from that time period minus brown prints).

 

"While basically true it's something you do in the open air and not in a confined space."

 

Sitting in your car is a confined space, and there are a host of nasties that get in there from car exhaust and offgassing from plastics in your own car. A few examples for your ride home- particulate matter- heart disease, cancer, death, carbon monoxide- dizziness, death, volatile organic compounds- cancer, phtalates- hormonal disruption.

You can get great info on toxicity for any given chemical. Many are quite benign. "Overexposed" is a book on the subject.

Interesting to note, you can make a film developer out of Vitamin C. You can also use lye or drain cleaner. By the way lye

in used to make pretzels. Anything you can impale yourself on is toxic, and H20 is technically a chemical. Sorry to be

such a smart a** but I can't resist. There are plenty of benign option for darkroom chemistry. Photographer's Formulary

online might have them available for purchase.

<i>What worries me is the absolute certainty with which some of you dismiss the fact that all chemicals are hazardous. </i><p>I agree with Tom. The causes of lymphoma, for example, aren't well understood. It is known that certain chemicals (organic solvents) can cause or contribute to causing lymphoma, but it isn't known what other chemicals and environmental factors cause it. As someone who lives with lymphoma and whose only significant direct chemical exposure was a number of years in an unventilated home darkroom, I have often wondered about it. I think the cavalier attitude here is very misleading.<p>I will add that many people have allergic reactions to chemicals of all sorts. A friend who worked in a commercial darkroom had all sorts of problems until he stopped. Just another thing to think about.

Ton, I respectfully disagree. What you need to do is read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) and take appropriate precautions for the hazards listed. If INHALATION is not a problem, don't worry about it. Read the sheets for the chemicals you are using, not necessarily the warnings for components in high concentrations.

 

I need decent ventilation simply to keep my darkroom space cool enough to work in comfortably. Most home darkrooms are in small, closed rooms. There is but one small forced air register in my bathroom/darkroom. It is amazing how fast body heat can warm the space especially during the summer.