Advice for Neighbor

Apologies for the 'off-topic' question, but it doesn't fit neatly anywhere

else either.

 

Situation: neighbor getting married; neighbor going to Africa for honeymoon;

went out and bought canon digital slr - off hand he didn't know the type

(30D "rings a bell"; kit lens... he didn't know details); asked me if I could

help figure "how to use it"; obviously doesn't know squat (give him a guitar

and he's in his element, photography just isn't his thing).

 

Preface: the conversation took place on an elevator, so details are sketchy.

In a nutshell, I've gathered that he doesn't know a lot and has about 3 weeks

to a month till Africa. I'm a film guy (35mm) who also shoots with a digital

p&s.

 

Question: what advice would you give to a neophyte hoping to come home with

decent shots?

 

My inclination is to suggest shooting in Auto; use RAW; concentrate on

composition; don't be scared to use flash in middle of the day. I'd be

attempting to adhere to the KISS principle. With only a month of pre-wedding

chaos, trying to cram sophistication into the equation could jeopardize the

desired result. Shooting Auto would let the camera's meter at least get

respectable/workable exposures; using RAW would allow 'post' polishing (likely

at a lab); and concentrating on composition is always a good idea.

 

Open to additional thoughts,

David

Ask him what subjects he'd like pictures of.

 

Teach him to squeeze the shutter button gently, so as to reduce camera shake.

 

Then teach him basic composition, as it realates to those kinds of pics.

 

I suspect there's an auto-mode that will cover almost any situation he wants to shoot in. I'd find it, and leave it there. Odds are he won't be taking photos that fall beyond those parameters anyway.

Can you shoot RAW in auto mode on a Canon?

Loan him your point and shoot for the trip and have him leave you the Canon to play with. You can learn it, then teach him when he gets back so he'll be ready for his next big trip. Explain to him that there are better things to do on a honeymoon that to be fumbling around like you don't know what you're doing. (With the fancy new unfamiliar camera, that is.) :)

just shoot "Fine" qulaity "Large" Jpegs on "P"rogram with auto-focus. He will bullseye his compositions regardless of what you tell him this close to the wedding and the trip. With a kit lens he wont be getting "fill the frame" shots anyway so there will be much cropping to improve the framing afterwards. His computer may not have the horsepower (and the learning curve might be a little steep) to be getting him to shoot RAW and convert after the shoot. Also too much to ask of a P&Ser with a new DSLR.

Shoot in Program mode in One Shot auto focus. For people shots, use the flash. If he can manage another wrinkle, learn how to compensate the exposure, both flash and ambient.

David -- you might want to try posting a different version of this in the Travel forum (cross-posting is a no-no).

 

Africa might mean "safari," but it also might mean SA wine country and beaches, which is where a colleague of mine went on her honeymoon. If he's looking for animal photos on a safari, he may be disappointed with the kit lens, but it will be fine for landscapes and any close-ups he can get of animals or people.

 

I agree that RAW is probably overkill for him. It would leave more ability to "correct" images in post, but as Jack points out how much post is he likely to want to do? I believe you can use RAW in P-mode, but I wouldn't recommend it for that reason.

 

The 30D has picto-graph settings: use the woman for people shots, the mountains for landscapes and the running man for action shots. At least it will be a little better than just leaving it on auto. If you think that's too much for him to handle, leaving it on auto will produce shots that are still probably far better than what he's used to anyway.

Kevin Cook: "Can you shoot RAW in auto mode on a Canon?"

 

No.

shoot jpeg. Suggest he read manual thoroughly. don't forget extra memory. So, is he getting married AND shooting the gig? Is he shooting reception and miscellaneous?

my 2 cents: Set the autofocus to the center sensor and show him how to focus with the release button on whatever he wants and hold the focus till framed. Regards Martin

Craig might be onto something..... thats the type of sensible solution only a true neighborly-type would come up with. My kind of guy. Having said that, I'm not quite sure the groom will share our enthusiasm for the logic of such a sacrifice (yes, giving up my p&s would hurt if only for awhile). On the other hand, the trip will encompass some safari stuff so the risk of some beast goring his expensive slr might be a consideration.

 

RAW: thought process took into account that the trip was important enough to go buy a new expensive digital slr so figured he might be willing to drop a couple hundred bucks (lab post-processing) to make those once in a lifetime shots/memories as good as possible. Given the 'lossy' nature of the Jpeg format when p.processing (I think that's right), once again, figured RAW provided flexibility without necessarily making 'post' compulsory. Does shooting RAW necessitate 'post', or can you print straight from original file? Again, I shoot film and my digital p&S limits me to jpeg; hence the ignorance.

 

I like the idea of using the picto-graph symbols. They would AUTOmatically choose favorable settings. The flipside.... it might possibly compromise ensuing shots if forgotten to re-adjust. The other idea of learning exposure compensation is one of most important I've learned but one fraught with variables. The knowledge and experience needed to ride that wheel (canon) needs to be second nature. The eye's on this guy would glaze over if I tried teaching him that. It's an invaluable skill, but given the time limitation just not practical. As far as composition, I was hoping to give the 101 version of: try to fill the frame, learn to press shutter halfway and recompose, there's a fine line between empty space and adding to the shot, the downside of sky/too much sky in the picture (re:exposure), etc, etc.... The list of do's and don'ts regarding composition could be lengthy so the key ones get the attention. The list of rules for exposing correctly, well...... forget it! Consequently I'm trying to come up with the most simplistic route. If the concensus on RAW is to skip it in favor of large, fine, jpeg than so be it. However, if some of you thought that shooting RAW and then lab-p.processed made sense I might at least make the suggestion to him and let him decide.

 

painfully wordy as usual,

David

it obviously took me too long to write, edit, re-write, and fullfill my role as Captain Interesting with my 4yr old girl. I missed some of the additional post's. Like from Colin Southern on down. Thanks everyone.

I'm not sure I'd give a "newbie with a 30D" *any* advice at all

[the "teach me photography in 5 minutes" syndrome].

 

Two scenarios:

 

- If photography (and his new camera) interests him just a bit, he's got the manual and the huge advantage of the instant feedback of digital. He'll be using all his available time to experiment till his wedding. I'm sure he'll be able to get decent pics by then without all the (sometimes conflicting) advice.

 

- If photography doesn't interest him, no amount of advice is going to help him anyway and he'll be back with his guitar.

 

It doesn't bode well if he doesn't even know which camera he's got... :-)

You can shoot RAW in "P" mode (for "professional") which is basically equivalent to "Auto". Tell him to leave the camera on "P" and hope for the best.

 

Ok, you got me. "P" actually stands for "Program" mode.

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

It must be at least an 11hr flight from the east coast to anywhere in Africa. I think you could read the canon manual cover to cover several time on that flight!

Take an afternoon. Take the book. Go someplace and start shooting pictures. Learn the camera together. Learn how to display the pictures you take which is easy. Then, if nothing else, shoot pictures of one another or whatever is around. Look at the screen and see how they come out. I assume he has a lens. You'd surprised at what you can learn. Having worked with some rocket science, this ain't it if you know some basic photography. Don't make a teaching exercise. I used to teach people to fly airplanes. There is only one way to do it. They have to fly the airplane. If he is reasonably adept he can learn enough to make a few good pictures in Afric. Don't stick his toe in the pool. Jump in. No more analogies.

slowly making inroads......

 

turns out he has a canon 30D with a 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens.

 

Don't know the lens myself, but the range ain't bad for a safari-ish type trip; could be worse and for an all-in-one kit solution, definitely ballpark. With an equivalent 35mm range of 45mm-215mm on his 30D it's obviously limited on the 'wide' side, but I personally think 'wides' are difficult to use well without a fair amount of practice.

 

It was another chance meeting, this time in the hall of our apt building, so there wasn't time for lengthy technical chat. Sometimes the pace of NY City has its drawbacks.

 

David

I too am in favour of Program Mode; One shot Auto Focus.

 

I would give him a practice with the flash for `people` holiday snaps.

 

I would explain the advantages of RAW and let him decide.

 

And I would leave it at just about that, unless he becomes a sponge, in which case he will read the manual and experiment.

 

But most importantly, I would absolutely ensure he understand the need for adequate memory or a facility to down load. If he is not taking a download storage with him . . . and let`s say it is three weeks holiday . . . at average 200 shots per day (always possible) . . . is that 10 x 4Gb cards, shooting RAW, I think. (I did the maths in my head).

 

WW

I was a bit hesitant to recommend Program mode over Auto because I thought having to control/adjust the ISO was a potentially tricky business. Maybe I'm not giving the guy enough credit. And if I had to choose between teaching him the benefits of using 'exposure compensation' or how to utilize the different ISO values I'd probably choose ISO. I say that not to open up a fresh round of debate, rather to simply weigh in on which I thought was easier to grasp. I'm sure, however, that a strong arguement could be made in favor of exp. comp.

 

question: how 'lossy'/damaging is post processing on jpegs?

>>> And if I had to choose between teaching him the benefits of using 'exposure compensation' or how to utilize the different ISO values I'd probably choose ISO. <<<

 

Keeping the KISS principle such is my thinking also.

 

I would put it something like this: `As a default, use 200 ISO (in sunlight) and change the ISO through to 1600, if necessary, to get an `adequate` (exposure combination shot in Program mode)`.

 

I think an important point is, (reiterating) if he wants to be a sponge for knowledge, he will do some work, and practice himself.

 

>>> question: how 'lossy'/damaging is post processing on jpegs? <<<

Everything is relative.

 

I shoot JPEG (L) + RAW and turn around the JPEG to 6 x 4 prints pretty quickly, mostly straight out the camera, or with a very small amount of exposure / colour correction: but that relies on reasonably accurate exposure, which, in Program mode, we should expect he will get a good percentage of the time.

 

Each JPEG correction and <SAVE> will cause a loss in quality, but that too might be academic applied to this scenario

 

So, realistically, if your colleague is a P&S man, and not inclined to fiddle later, but rather go to a photo printing lab and press `auto correct` and print his 6 x 4 for 15cents each, then perhaps (no disrespect meant) the question is redundant.

 

From what you outlined the main aim is to let him enjoy his holiday and have photo memories from it: I think it is easy to place our own parameters of success upon others, who are quite satisfied with the `happy snaps`, by comparison.

 

The tool he has bought will give very good `happy snaps` for a great percentage of the shots he takes: I have addressed the issue from this standpoint: again, if he wants more he will ask, or go for it himself.

 

WW

William, I have to say that you consistently give very thoughtful and insightful responses. If I ever had any aspirations of turning pro, which thankfully I don't, I'd try to hire you as a consultant. And I'm not kidding.

 

Off for a brief vacation tomorrow, so ....... au'voir!

 

David