Adorama.com... is this a reliable store

Discussion in 'Casual Photo Conversations' started by kevin_khuu|1, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. Hello everyone.... I found some used D80 bodies offered on Adorama.com website that was selling for a really good
    price of $519 for excellent condition rating and $544 for a Demo condition rating. Is Adorama.com a reliable site to
    purchase the used camera body? and is this a good price?
     
  2. Adorama is reliable, yes, I think they give you 2 weeks to check it out and return if you're not happy on Used and you get a 90 day warranty I believe if something is wrong? My purchases have all been new from Adorama and BHPhoto, nothing used, but since since they're good for new, should be for used too -- others can comment on Used experience.
     
  3. adorama aint bad.....definitely nothing to complain about. However, when it comes to used equipment, I usualy opt for keh.com check them out
     
  4. Yes, I have experience in used, meaning selling to Adorama and my experience was not too good. After I shipped to them for evaluation a used camera body and several used lenses, all in very good condition, they offered me ridiculously low prices. When I declined their offer they conveniently "lost" 2 of the more popular lenses in the process of returning the products to me and as compensation offered me, you guessed it, the low prices they had initially offered. It took several phone calls to have them agree on more reasonable prices for those "lost" lenses. I will never again deal with Adorama.
     
  5. buying from them? The best.

    selling to them? the pits.
     
  6. It might be a mistake to buy used there without being in the store and seeing the item. I HAVE bought used there, but would not do so without inspection. If you are in an adventurous mood, they will take it back if you do not want it.
     
  7. Kevin,
    I have done a lot with Adorama, and my experience with them is good. They respond with your purchase quickly and no hassle when you want to return if you are not satisfied. However, my most purchases are new items so I have a limited experience with used items. I know BHPhoto.com (another good resource for online trade) has new D80 with sale price of $570. Paying a little more, you can have a brand new one. I would do this way.
    Wenhan
     
  8. I have purchased used photo gear from Adorama on several occasions, with full satisfaction. But those were eBay purchases, with photos of the actual item available to view. Apparently the experience with "sight unseen" used purchases can vary, judging from comments I have read here and elsewhere.

    I would not hesitate to purchase a "DEMO" condition item from them. I would be more cautious with any item rated less than EX+, as they are not as conservative with their used equipment ratings as KEH. Nevertheless, Adorama is reliable and trustworthy, and I see no reason they would not honor their return policy. Just be aware that you will be on the hook for shipping costs (both ways I think) if you return a used item.

    SELLING to ANY retailer (be it Adorama, KEH.com, B&H) is bound to be a less than satisfactory experience from the outset, as none of them can offer anywhere close to full resale value for your equipment, regardless of condition.
     
  9. Michael wrote: "SELLING to ANY retailer (be it Adorama, KEH.com, B&H) is bound to be a less than satisfactory experience from the outset, as none of them can offer anywhere close to full resale value for your equipment, regardless of condition."

    I'm not talking about or expecting full resale value when I offer my equipment to Adorama. I expect a reasonable offer with plenty of profit margin for them when they resell at THEIR going rate for the same used equipment as presented on their website. It wasn't even close! And THEN they somehow, conveniently "loose" the two most asked for zoom lenses. And THEN they offer me to pay the ridiculously low prices they quoted me in the first place. And THEN it takes MANY phone calls to get them to agree on more reasonable prices. And THEN they send me a check for an amount a couple of dollars lower than they agreed on. That's a SCAM OPERATION in my book.
     
  10. Kevin

    Frans and Peter have both raised very valid points regarding the Used Department at Adorama; there certainly were
    problems as noted by Frans, which we believe have since been resolved (in any organization, it can only take one
    less competent employee to give the entire business a bad name, and we are no exception).

    In addition, I am now in post to resolve issues such as those noted quickly and effectively. You can contact me
    directly regarding any kind of query or problem concerning an order or purchase from Adorama:
    helen.oster@adoramacamera.com.

    Our Used Equipment carries a 90 day Warranty, and our rating guide is as follows:

    N = New, Comes complete as packed by manufacturer with warranty except where noted.

    D = Demonstration condition almost like new, might show very light use.

    E+ = Excellent, Very clean.

    E = Excellent Shows normal wear, might have minor scratches, glass clean.

    E - = Excellent, Average wear, may have small marks but no brassing.

    V = Very Good, Shows heavier wear, works mechanically fine.

    G = Good, Shows extra heavy use wear, glass might have scratches, usable.

    F = Fair, Beaten up, sold as is!

    Sincerely

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  11. Helen wrote: "in any organization, it can only take one less competent employee to give the entire business a bad name"

    Several people were involved in what I only can characterize as a scam: the initial contact person and several people in management. And no, it was never fully resolved as I still didn't get the extra money owed to me.
     
  12. Frans

    Would you like to contact me directly? helen.oster@adoramacamera.com, with your order number, and other details you have, so we can investigate?

    Than you

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  13. My experience with Adorama buying new and used equipment, and also selling them used cameras. Recently I sold them my old Canon
    T90 and some FD lenses. They gave me a reasonable amount for them and I buyed a demo Nikon D300 and a second hand 17-55 mm
    f/2.8 in mint condition at a very good price. Jack Gold and Efraim Nussbaum were very helpful. I certainly recommend Adorama.
     
  14. Helen,

    I haven't kept any of the paperwork. I've written it off to yet another bad experience; you won't get any of my business.
     
  15. Frans

    If you would like to contact me directly, (helen.oster@adoramacamera.com), with your email address, we can use that to track the past order(s).

    Sincerely

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  16. Helen,

    There never was an order. I sent in my equipment for Adorama to quote me prices and some of the equipment was returned to me.
     
  17. Frans

    I see we are going to be conducting this discussion in public...... If you give me your email address, we should nevertheless be able to track this information and what took place.

    Thank you

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
    helen.oster@adoramacamera.com
     
  18. I've gotten some absolute trash from Adorama when buying used equipment.

    I have never had a really bad experience with KEH.com, although I had to send one item back. Everything else was much better than described.

    --Lannie
     
  19. Landrum

    If you have a problem with a purchase from Adorama - whether used or new, please contact me directly with either your order number or your email address, and I can try to put things right. helen.oster@adoramacamera.com

    Sincerely

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  20. Helen wrote: "I see we are going to be conducting this discussion in public."

    Yes, you may have noted that this is an open, public forum. Open, public, get it?

    I've emailed you my email address.
     
  21. I have used Adorama almost exclusively for the 15 years or so that I've been buying and selling new and used equipment. I have bought, sold, received and returned all manner of equipment and materials from Adorama and overall, my level of satisfaction could easily be rated 9 out of 10; and no one ever rates a 10 in my book. I once purchased an expensive used lens (Nikon 105 f2 DC) and the lens was in much better condition than described (rated E and received an easy EX+), the transaction was smooth, it was quickly and respectfully executed and this is typical of my experience with this retailer.

    I think Helen's persistent willingness to right the wrong that Frans feels like he experienced is indicative of the way Adorama strives to keep everything they do above board, on the level and in keeping with the best practices you could expect from ANY retail business. I would fully endorse Adorama here, and anywhere else and to anyone else who asked me. I have never been disappointed and I think Frans should recognize, and quit being so hard headed about the fact that the Adorama representative who is so kindly willing to help him straighten out his troubles is really the way they do business. Thank you Helen!

    And...KEH is also a good and reliable source for used equipment. There. I'm done now.
     
  22. " I think Frans should recognize, and quit being so hard headed about the fact that the Adorama representative who is so kindly willing to help him straighten out his troubles is really the way they do business"

    That's not my experience and hence my comments here. When I'm treated like an easy scam target, and that's what it was, a scam, I speak up.
     
  23. Okay, I'll bite. You're paranoid Frans. Scam? You might, of you look hard enough, find a little 'scam' camera
    shop somewhere on Broadway, but Adorama? Scam? Those don't go together. You are, indeed, entitled to your
    opinion, but to think an organization as well established and recognized as Adorama Camera as needing to stoop
    to 'scamming' people is a bit over the top, don't you think? Get a grip. They made a mistake and are
    willing to work with you to correct it. Your bad experience with the so said lenses has, likely, as much to with
    your attitude than some employee's (probably unintentional) mistake at the said retailer.
     
  24. OK Philip,

    Maybe you should read what exactly I have written.
     
  25. Yes, I have been their customer for almost a decade.
     
  26. Frans - I did read what you wrote and I'd be upset too, if I were you. There are as many possible scenarios as you can name as to why your particular deal went south, other than declaring "scam" in the face of Adorama's obvious and open (public?) attempts to rectify the situation. I don't work for Adorama, nor do I think any retailer, online or otherwise does everything flawlessly all of the time and never misses a beat.

    So say what you like, and please, give your frank opinion in response to the OPs question. That is your prerogative in this land of free speech and exchange of ideas. I just think you might should take into consideration that one bad experience, with any company or individual, doesn't rate such a harsh judgment in a public forum.
     
  27. I have purchased a number of used Nikon lenses from Adorama. So far, I have found fair prices and reasonable
    descriptions of the items.

    However, having said that, I don't believe that I would purchase a used camera from them (or about any other internet
    source). I feel a lens can be tested quickly to determine it's quality and functionality. With a fairly complex digital
    camera, it might take a while to uncover some issue.

    I had an issue with a used Nikon D100 I bought a number of years ago. Even though I bought it from a local source, it
    took a while until I really saw an issue with the sensor.

    Save up the few bucks extra for a new one, I don't think you will be disappointed.
     
  28. Frans, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Although I doubt that Adorama actually tried to scam you out of your merchandise, I sympathize, absolutely, with your situation: On one hand, you can't demand they pay you whatever you wish, but, on the other, the compensation ought to be strongly in your favor — they're the ones at fault, and it's ludicrous to expect a customer to simply accept their low offer after he's already declined it prior to their losing the merchandise.

    As for the original poster's question, regarding purchasing used items from Adorama, and the reliability of the store, they're one of the biggest in the business — for photography what Bloomingdale's is for large clothing stores. It's always better to get your hands on used equipment before purchasing it (in fact, I suggest, if possible, you make a trip to Adorama's outlet to look at the item, first-hand), but, in my experience (with B&H, but they're not very different from Adorama, at least not in this regard), the company's rating system does not lean in its own favor.

    Philip, it's easy to be level-headed and reasonable when you're not the one who's been screwed over. As someone who's had his share of bad experiences with companies, I can understand Frans's (if he's being honest) position: he went through what he was put through, and, now, he's not interested in any further dealing with the organization. It's not Helen's fault, and she does seem to be trying to help (or, if you'd prefer, just to do her job, which includes fostering healthy customer relations), but it's not always easy to flash a grin and say "Thanks, so much" to a representative of something you've come to have strong disdain for. No, they probably didn't keep his stuff, pay him close to crap, then sell it for a hearty profit, but that doesn't have to happen for someone to feel scammed. Certainly, I'd be incorrigibly perturbed if someone accepted my stuff for inspection, lost it, then offered me an unacceptably scanty recompense — it wouldn't help matters, either, if I had to jump through hoop after hoop to get just that.
     
  29. I've made quite a few purchases from them and they are definitely reliable....and friendly.
     
  30. Bought a new 30D body from Adorama two weeks ago. No hassles.
     
  31. I have dealt with Adorama on and off for quite a few years now (at least 5 or 6) and my general experiences have been good. Nothing has ever given me the impression they were anything less then honest.

    They seem to close every November for a week or two due to Passover (I think) which to be fair I respect. Nice to see someone putting their principals first whether I share them or not, even if it has almost caused me to not get my cameras \ lenses a few times.

    On the plus sides, Adorama have put up with the fact my wife and I always seem to be ordering expensive items with credit cards from random countries to be shipped to either Hawai'i or California depending on which way the wind is blowing. To give them their credit they have virtually always called and double checked for fraud purposes and also ensured I didn't have a dumb moment and put down the wrong address. Their staff have always been courteous and efficient and cross referenced my order with older ones to make sure I wasn't a card scammer. Its refreshing to have a company do this rather than either decline or accept potentially fraudulent orders without any kind of check.

    The only vaguely negative experience I have had with them was buying a p&s camera from them, they had it in stock on their site when nobody else did (which should have caused me to think twice) and it tuned out it wasnt in stock too late to do much about the situation. In the end it arrived a week to late for me to use on the vacation but the mother in law is now the proud owner of it and I just picked up a very similar camera in costco. They did email me to let me know it was out of stock but I was airbourne at the time. My personal judgement was that I should have phoned to check, as it was odd they had it in stock when nobody else did. Mistakes happen all the time, especially with stock control systems. It certainly hasn't caused me to stop using Adorama.

    The internet seems to make companies ensure they clean up their mistakes, bad storied get around fast and it pays companies to fix their mistakes asap and learn from them. Yes I dont doubt Adorama have made a few mistakes, but as a percentage of their total orders it must be small otherwise they would be out of business. The only people who get away with that are civil servants and politicians.

    Frans, Helen is clearly trying to resolve the situation, your attitude lends your story little credibility.
     
  32. "Frans, Helen is clearly trying to resolve the situation, your attitude lends your story little credibility."

    Whether or not Helen is trying to resolve the situation after the fact doesn't change the facts as they occured. Now that this issue is showing up on a public forum are they suddenly interested to resolve it.
     
  33. I agree entirely, however, refusing to give them a chance to do so makes it look like it may not have happened. What do you have to lose beyond a few minutes to send an email? Be fair, you have spent more time then that posting about it.

    I have occasion to work for a large telecoms company, due to the fact it deals with a large number of customers and employ a large number of people (of varying species it seems at times) it makes quite a few mistakes. 99.9% of customers are fine, but the remaining .1% is still a chunk of money. I have found that the best way to make the company learn is to hit it in the only place it hurts, its wallet. If I believe a client has a genuine grievance I will ensure proper recompense it made, no matter how costly.

    In this case you may receive an apology from Adorama, which probably won't mean much to you. Or you may receive a credit note or replacement item. I don't work for them so I couldnt say, but there is a chance you will be made whole. Doing this would cost Adorama money, something I'm sure it will take notice of and that will provoke a sudden interest from the powers that be in the department that causes this expenditure.

    Helen probably won't thank me much for saying what I have. I like the company and I want it to stay how it is or improve, therefore if there are poor procedures \ inept staff or managers covering up mistakes, make sure the company pays for it and it will learn to fix them. I know it probably sticks in your throat that they did nothing until it was mentioned in a public forum, it would in mine also. However, take the chance. Even if you never deal with them again, you might end up with something at the end of it.
     
  34. Richard,

    If you'd cared to read carefully, you would have learned that I did send an email. And no, I'm not out to get back my couple of dollars that they stiffed me for, although I'm ticked off about that. I want others to know what happened to me. Am I ticked off because of the low price they quoted me? No. Am I ticked off because they "lost" two of my lenses? That depends; If they lied about that, I'm ticked off seriously; if they told the truth, then no. Am I ticked off because they refused to compensate me for the "lost" lenses with an amount any higher than the ridiculously low prices they quoted me in the first place? You bet and that's the main issue here. Assuming they honestly misplaces some of my items and not some others, they should have taken responsibility for that and without me having to insist they should have paid me a fair price for the lost items. However, it took five or six phone calls over several days to the initial contact person and two additional people in management to finally get them to agree to a reasonable compensation for the lost items. So there you have it.

    And to those koolaid drinkers that want to shoot the messenger because they can't believe that their favorite retailer would do something like this I can only say: wake up.
     
  35. Adorama # 1 in my book never in 6 years have'd i had a problem with them.
     
  36. Frans (and whomever else feels they got a raw deal from Adorama),

    You'd be doing all of us a big favor if you just emailed Helen directly so this thread can close down, it's long turned into a waste of time.

    Like any retailer, they're bound to have a few unhappy customers here and there, either because they made a mistake or because a customer didn't like the outcome of a purchase/sale. At least Helen is trying very hard to make it right, which is more than I can say about most places. Isn't this what you hoped to get out of posting this publicly? So give her the chance to fix it with you or be fair and stop complaining about them, its really quite boring at this point.
     
  37. Bought a number of things from them, new and used. They have been great. I had a Mat 124G that I got from them that started having meter problems a few weeks after I got it. I took it back and they checked it and said they couldnt fix it. Gave me the option of them sending it out for repair or me taking it to a repair shop and having it billed to them. I did the latter since it would be quicker and they gave me a name and address to take it. They fixed it in a few days and billed directly to Adorama so no charge at all to me. Adorama was quite good about it. Im always happy to deal with them.
     
  38. I have bought from them used (43mm mamiya lens) and it was great. I only buy from B&H, Midwest, Adorama, and Calumet (in that order). Anyone have any better places let me know, I am game. As for Keh, haven't bought from them, but got some estimates for selling some of my equipment and wasn't happy (Nikon D200, 1 year old, perfect condition - they quoted me $304, and were selling a lower quality camera for over $700).
     
  39. Demo from Adorama is basically like new.
     
  40. I have done business with both Adorama and B&H over the last several years. I have been in the retail locations for both stores. I have purchased thousands of dollars of new and used equipment at both stores. I have found both of them to be reliable and courteous in all my transactions. Buy with confidence.
     
  41. I've bought 2 cameras from Adorama. A Mamiya Universal and a RB67 pro-s. Both were in excellent condition. The RB looks brand new. It was listed as body with waist-level finder. Excellent for $166.00. When I got it, the camera also had a 220 pro-s film back. The only marks on anything, was on the memo clip of the holder. Would I buy from them again? YES!
    About the suggested buying price for used equipment. Every dealer in anything buys wholsale.
     
  42. I have purchased 5 or 6 used items from Adorama, among them a Nikon SP (1959 vintage), a Hasselblad 60mm lens and Nikon TC 200.

    Each item was exactly as described in their rating system and functions perfectly.

    I always call to confirm the purchase and maybe ask a question about the item.

    I wouldn't hesitate to purchase once more from Adorama should they have an item I am interested in.
     
  43. I have bought from Adorama with no problem, but i was given a site to look at for the ratings for the places that are selling: http://www.resellerratings.com/ It has been very good.
     
  44. I believe that Frans is absolutely correct when he states "Now that this issue is showing up on a public forum are they suddenly interested to resolve it". My job is to trawl forums such as this (plus personal websites, blogs, shopping sites etc), and actively find Adorama customers who - often quite correctly - believe that more should have been done to resolve issues, or that nobody listened to their complaint(s). First and foremost, I am employed to take the customer's side, to understand what went wrong - and why, to try to put it right, and use this to feed back to our Strategic Development Team where and how we can make improvements to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future. As part of the recent trebling in size of Adorama's New York store, a huge retraining exercise was undertaken, to try to ensure that the advice and support from Adorama is second to none. Sadly, some members of staff are no longer with us. I feel very privileged to be in this new role at Adorama; to be able to work towards a better shopping experience for Adorama customers. I was really pleased to read the feedback on this forum which seems to indicate that mostly we get it right, and I thank those of you who took the time to report on your positive experiences at Adorama Camera. Sincerely Helen Oster Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  45. And since this is a public forum, I should say that I *love* Adorama !!! I've now bought from them three times, and been just blown away by the service!!! My latest order (first used item I've bought off them) I placed was unfortunately after they had already closed for the holiday this week, and I fully expected when they reopened on Friday for my order to be about a month away from being sent. I was stunned to see that it was sent on the same day!!! Of course I'm hitting the UPS tracking page about every ten minutes to see how far along my order is :_)

    And if you're still watching this thread, Helen, perhaps you can answer me a question... Every order I receive has an invoice with this on the bottom: "Please find enclosed our latest brochure" but there's never a brochure in the box.. Wazzup with that???
     
  46. Adorama & KEH are now my favorite two companies to buy used gear from. Since I'm a collectoholic I make at least three purchases a month. Both companies are great with super inventories. I do prefer Adoramas quicker ship times and better pricing on Camera bodies.
    I strongly recommend them for used gear!

    -Joe
     
  47. Frankly, I'd rather do business with Adorama than Frans. Helen is making a major effort to resolve the issue; Fran is nipping at everyone's ankles who won't buy his anger.
     
  48. Kevin - they are not only a reputable shop, they are THE shop for photography. They are small enough (even with the
    expansion) for the guys to remember who you are, even if like me you only pop in every few months.

    I've overheard their sales guys helping tourists and offering fair suggestions even on p&s; they, of course, are used to dealing
    with professionals and experienced amateurs.

    They don't always offer the lowest price but they are, in my experience, always competitively priced. I'd say that you can deal
    with their online shop with a high degree of confidence, Kevin.
     
  49. Dear Frans

    Thank you for sending me your email address, which enabled us to access your order history. You are quite correct - back in 2005 our Customer Service was not so good; thankfully, we have come a long way since then.
    We now have a new team in the Used department, and have been working hard to earn back trust that was (not surprisingly), lost.

    It does appear from our records that the initial check that we sent out was indeed $6 short of the agreed amount - however, I see that this was in fact sent out to you 12 days later in a separate check.

    You are also quite right to highlight that we may not always pay the highest rates for used items. You will no doubt be aware of KEH, who deals only in used equipment. A direct comparison isn't really possible, because we run our used department alongside everything else that we offer - not just new equipment, but printing services (AdoramaPix) our tutorials etc

    I believe that we are the only used equipment resource that meets the shipping costs of returning items to a customer, if upon appraisal the price we would offer is not as much as the customer might be hoping for.

    Had I had an experience with a retailer that, 3 years' later, had still left me feeling so cheated, I don't doubt that I would be looking to take my business elsewhere - and there are many good options other than Adorama.

    Nevertheless, should you find yourself in a position where you would like to give us another chance, we would be delighted.

    Sincerely

    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     
  50. PS I omitted to mention that we also cover the cost of items being shipped to us for appraisal, which no other company does!

    Helen
     
  51. I bought pair of new Pentax SP 10 by 50 roof prism binoculars from Adorama last May via the Amazon portal. Price was about $609.00 Within two to three (can't recall exactly) weeks the price went down about 145.00 on same Amazon site at Adorama. At the time though B and H was 50 dollars higher-interesting. I took no lesson from this,nor did I seek to ask for a refund which maybe I could have entertained... Prices on line go up and down all the time and I do like the Pentax binos and the shipping was superfast,though a bit costly by my standards for Fedex/UPS-it was about 43.95 bucks for a three pound box . And Helen, I feel no remorse or ill well towards Adorama and I will do business with you again Helen!. For binoculars and optics Adorama carries a huge inventory-just compare with other optical dealers. And they are all in stock as far as I can tell. I guess I am a real capitalist when $150 more or less doesn't irk me much anymore. Sometimes one gets a good promotional deal and it all works out in the end. Good for Adorama for upgrading its customer service. I haven't had need to use it. I shop B and H. J and R, Adorama and Calumet mail. All have me satisfied. No company can afford to lose a customer when it is so hard to get a new one on board. I do not just shop price, by any means... Gerald. Siegel, Mililani HI. ( But I will keep your e mail just in the event:) aloha nui
     
  52. Gerry

    In your shoes, I'd have been fuming! But you're right, prices move up & down all over, on the 'net, in stores etc. One
    thing, had the item been in the process of despatch when the price dropped, I'm pretty sure that the new lower price
    would have been honored if you'd been in touch with us. I'm not sure about 2 or 3 weeks later - but it's always worth
    asking! So, hold on to my details just in case

    Helen
     
  53. If I was Adorama, I would write off Frans as a totally unreasonable customer and not do business with him under any circumstance.
     
  54. I've dealt with Adorama, B&H and KEH. I've only had good experiences with all three of them. Most of what I am interested in is older Olympus OM gear with some of it being rather rare. I generally deal with whichever one might have that item. With Adorama I have only ever bought film and new equipment through them, B&H and KEH I have bought used gear.
     
  55. Gerry, I can't understand how such a large difference seems to have meant nothing to you, but, I suppose, if you're OK, I haven't any reason to feel uncomfortable...
     
  56. It is easy to say a good word if you did not experience what Frans went through. It was frustrated and time consumed when you tried to deal with people who wanted to steal something from you. Think about what Frans did, called again and again to different people and couldn't get what he should get. I really appreciate Frans posted his experience here that teached us how to do to protect youself. And also it teaches Adorama a lesson that you have to be honest to your costumers since they help you for your business.
     
  57. I have purchased new and used from Adorama for nearly 10 years and am more than satisfied.


    Their used ratings seem right most of the time but not always. Sometimes I think that the grader must go over the item too quickly. This works in both directions. I got a used FM-2n from them about 7 years ago that was supposed to be "E-" but was nearly immaculate. On the other hand I have ordered 2 used lenses at one time one was "E" the other was a Demo lens. The Demo lens had more wear/brassing then "E" lens did. The Demo lens did come with the box. I returned the Demo lens without any problems.
     
  58. We are in the process of trialling a new grading system; if it seems to be well received, I must try to remember to post it.

    Helen
     
  59. Everybody feels they got screwed sometime. Sometimes that is true. That is a given. The internet now offers a
    remedy hitherto unavailable to the indignant--rating companies on line. Enough people say "watch out" and
    eventually the thinking crowd won't do business there. Think about it: Angie's list. Click and Clack auto shop
    reviews online. Power to the people never before held. I believe there are still crooks out there. (And auto
    repair is one of the most lucrative scams. Who the hell knows if they used factory parts or not, or if the black
    box air sniffing gizmo was really out of whack..) Professionals like so called cosmetic dentists are not immune
    either. But there are checks and balances. I guess what I am leading to is this small observation. Ration your
    indignation. Use the old 'shaft without vaseline' as a learning experience. Learn to write great powerful
    letters. Forget e mail. A letter with copies to BBB and the local Commerce Department get attention. Then,
    consider negotiation. Letter could end thus. " I think it is unfortunate that my experience was unsatisfactory.
    I am prepared to remain a customer if you could replace my lenses with new ones at cost." Their counteroffer
    will probably be cost plus 5%. (not always, but getting to the right person helps)That is how countries do
    diplomacy. See what I am saying. I just am not another don't get mad, don't get even gent...it is the balance
    sheet in the end of the life journey.....Go to a Mel Gibson movie and get your burning energy satisfied by the
    gunplay. Beat the golf ball to death. Whatever. And when you buy used or sell used, the long run experience is
    what counts.IMO. I wish you well, Kevin and Frans. I been there a few times. With bigger stakes by far.
     
  60. I've now discovered that KEH and Adorama do indeed rate differently - my 20-35 2.8 from KEH in BGN condition is in almost perfect condition, but the 80-200 2.8 2-touch I've just received from Adorama in E condition is definitely not as good condition - a couple of scuff marks, a mark on the nameplate, there's the beginnings of a hairline crack on the A-M ring (the old common prob with these) and the AF intermittantly squeals. Not 100% sure how I feel about this - I definitely think it was graded too high but it's still a very nice lens, so maybe when the A-M ring finally cracks through I'll get the AF fixed at the same time. It's certainly an intimidating lens - with it mounted on my F5 and a hood stuck on it, I feel more like Rambo with a bazooka than a dude with a camera :)
     
  61. I've only bought used stuff from keh and midwest, but I'm happy with Adorama with new stuff. I sometimes get free shipping and better deals than at B&H. I appreciate their email that goes out every couple weeks or so, have gotten some sweet deals, eg recently got a Crumpler 7mill bag for 99 with free ship, and included a smaller crumpler bag that holds a P&S.
     
  62. I recently made a purchase from Adorama. It was damaged during shipping. Their customer service has horrible hours, most don't speak fluent English. Their damaged item policy is out-dated. I was not satisfied. In the end after waiting over 2 weeks, they messed up and refunded my money instead of replacing the item. DO NOT USE ADORAMA!
     
  63. Please accept my apologies, Ramona
    I can't identify your order from your posting but if you can please email me directly: Helen@adorama.com with your order number I can promise that I will give it my immediate attention.
    Helen Oster
    Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
     

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