Adobe RGB or sRGB setting on Canon 40D (which to use)

Which color setting do you use and why? I am flying to Alaska tomorrow and read

today that many people use the Adobe RGB rather than the sRGB (which I use).

Any pros/cons? I want to get the best possible shots while up in Alaska. I shoot

RAW with my 40D and convert to DNG if it matters. Thanks for any thoughts.

If you're shooting RAW it doesn't matter. RAW doesn't care.

 

Pick your color space when you're doing the conversion. DPP gives you about 5 different choices. The differences are normally pretty subtle.

Bob, I may be wrong, but I think it does matter even in RAW. I shot on a tripod once to test it and you could see a very noticable difference in the RAW images when clicking back/next in DPP. I think this is one area where choosing what you shoot before hand matters in RAW. I think my manual say to choose before hand as well. I use DPP extensively and have never seen where you could change the 'Shot" colorspace in RAW in DPP. You can set your "Default settings of Workspace" and "Color match settings" for embedding a profile, but not the actual image colorspace in which it was shot. I say this because hearing this from you now definitly has me confused. Please set me straight if I am wrong.

 

On a side note, I bet if you put 2 side by side in a print, you couldnt tell a difference. All consumer print shops use sRGB anyway, so shooting in Adobe wouldnt matter in your case Dan. Besides, unless your well versed in Color space, then you are better off leaving it sRGB or you'll wind up with some bad prints.

Adobe RGB has more colors (wider gamut) than sRGB. My rule of thumb for hiking, eating and photographing has always been... Having "too much" is better than not having enough... If there's no major downside, why not go with "too much?" Adobe RGB matches nicely with most photo quality ink printers. Many people use Kodak's comparatively huge gamut ProPhoto. No monitor or printer can reproduce all of the colors, but some people feel that it's just a matter of time before that changes.

I think it does matter because when I bring a picture into CS3 from ACR and the picture's color space does not match the sRGB that I have set in PS I get a warning that asks do I want to convert, retain the current color space or discard it altogether. I am not positive but PS knows what color space I used on the camera. It may have been discarded but there is a difference I think in the soft proof. Bob, you know more than I do so I think you are probably correct but then why do I get this message.

David - I could be wrong, but what I posted above is what I understood the situation to be. The RAW file just takes the intensity of each of the pixels in the sensor and stores that information. For a 12MP sensor there are 6 million green pixels, 3 million red pixels and 3 million blue pixels in a standard Bayer matrix camera (like all EOS models). So the RAW file is just 12 million numbers. The colors are only applied when the RAW file is de-matrixed and converted into RAW and JPEG by interpolating colors. That's when the yellows and cyans and magentas and pinks are generated and where (I presume) you need to define a color space. You go from 3 colors in the RAW file to the usual 16 million colors of an 8-bit JPEG. I don't think you can define a color space for a RAW file because it only contains red, green and blue information. It doesn't need a color space.

 

See http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/raw.html

 

As I said, I could be wrong. If you find info to the contrary, let me know.

 

Of course when you display a RAW file in DPP, it has to be be de-matrixed and the color and intensity of each pixel determined. That conversion probably uses whatever color space you had set in the camera by default. As far as I know you can change the colorspace which DPP uses when you do the final conversion from RAW to JPEG and save the result.

Ken. I have printed in Adobe RGB, sRGB and Samsung RGB but, just in my case I get a better screen match after using Spyder with everything set to sRGB. Even at 16 bits its hard to tell the difference.

Dan,

 

Are you shooting only RAW or RAW + JPG? If you're only shooting RAW, I believe

it's default color space is ProPHOTO, so sRGB or AdobeRGB does not apply.

 

But if you are shooting RAW + JPG, why wouldn't you want to use the larger color

space that AdobeRGB allows for JPG?

 

Then when see an image that you'd like to post on any web page, that's where,

"Save for the Web" comes into play- see Photoshop, under File. This function turns

the written color space and converts it to sRGB.

 

In a Nut Shell, capture an image in the Largest File, with it's largest color space that

is allowed. You can always throw away information- Go from Large to Small.

 

On the other hand, if you're going to photograph something, that's only going to be posted on a web-page, then by all means, shoot in sRGB

This article will be very helpful to better answer your question.

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/prophoto-rgb.shtml

<i><b>If you're shooting RAW it doesn't matter. </b></i><p>

 

In a nutshell, correct. The only difference it makes is the changing of the first letter of the filename to an underscore.

To Bob,

 

I 2nd David's observation. I too believe that when shooting in sRGB, over

AdobeRGB does in somehow affect the performance of the RAW file being

generated. This was on a 20D.

 

Back in 2005/2006 I was shooting a Sunset and accidently had the 20D set to RAW

+ JPG Large in sRGB. Even after opening the RAW image in PS CS2 {Using Adobe

to open the RAW file} Color Space ProPhoto RGB, my colors where very much out

of Gamut.

 

Meaning: RAW has the potential of writing a file in the ProPhoto RGB color shoe,

but if the camera set to sRGB, the color space will be confined to sRGB within the

ProPhoto RGB Color space for the written RAW file.

Interesting, though I don't see how you can assign a colorspace to a RAW file since it only contains three primary colors. The pixels in the RAW file don't have any color tags at all. It's simply their position in the matrix that determins what color is assigned to them, red, green or blue.

 

You can assign a default conversion profile. For example is you shoot RAW in B&W, the image will show up as B&W when opened in DPP, but only because it uses the "B&W" tag in the RAW file. You can still open it as full color if you want to.

 

I'd assume the same for color space. It may well "tag" the RAW file to tell DPP what color space to use as default, but that should be a default, and just like a "B&W" tag you should be able to override it.

I am still pretty confused. Sounds like there are different schools of thought on the subject. Still, very informative reading over the responses and the logic that suports each. I fly to Alaska in 22 hours. Adobe RGB or sRGB?

Bob's right - shoot RAW and it doesn't matter. And for the record, when you convert these images, ProPhoto has a larger gamut than Adobe RGB which is larger than sRGB.

 

Save your RAW images and someday you'll figure this out...and have the RAW files to manipulate.

Here's what my 5D manual says...

 

The color space refers to the range of reproducible colors. With this

camera, you can set the color space for captured images to sRGB or

Adobe RGB. For normal images, sRGB is recommended. In Full Auto

Mode, sRGB will be set automatically.

 

About Adobe RGB

This is mainly used for commercial printing and other industrial uses.

This setting is not recommended if you do not know about image

processing, Adobe RGB, and Design rule for Camera File System 2.0

(Exif 2.21).

Since the image will look very subdued with sRGB personal computers

and printers not compatible with Design rule for Camera File System

2.0 (Exif 2.21), post-processing of the image with software will be

required.

What do I use? I shoot in Adobe RGB, producing both a RAW file and and a small jpg file.

 

I almost always process the best RAW files in Adobe RGB. But the critical step is the last one. You need to remember to convert back to the sRGB profile before you post those RGB files to the net. I also convert before I send files to be printed, as some printers may not read the EXIF data and so mess up the translation. I find that if I forget to convert to sRGB, the colors look a little muddy on an internet browser.

 

Some authors argue just to shoot all in sRGB, guys like Ken Rockwell. It's easier, though I think you lose some data latitude if you do the conversion before using photoshop.

 

Dave

FWIW, from the Lightroom help file:

<p>"Lightroom simplifies color management in your photographic workflow. You donﾒt need to choose color settings or color profiles until you are ready to output your photos. . . . <strong>Raw photo files generally donﾒt have embedded color profiles.</strong> For raw files, the Develop module assumes a wide color space based on the color values of the ProPhoto RGB color space."

<p>I can't speak for DPP as I don't use it.

<p>--Jon

<I><B>"I am still pretty confused. Sounds like there are different schools of thought on the subject. Still, very informative reading over the responses and the logic that suports each. I fly to Alaska in 22 hours. Adobe RGB or sRGB?"</I></B><P>

 

Dan - trust me - if you're shooting RAW then you can toss a coin - neither will have any effect what-so-ever on the RAW data.

I just took 2 test shots. JPG+RAW. There's difference between .jpg files ONLY. Raw files look identical.

 

Someone people mentioned what they use. I use RAW+small JPG (worst quality). I'd shoot only RAW but raw files viewer doesn't work on win 64-bit and if I shot only raw files I wouldn't have any thumbnails.

*someone/some (edited it later and forgot to delete "one")

IMHO if you are asking this question you should be using sRGB. If you can articulate a

reason to use some other color space, then go ahead.

 

That being said, I'm pretty sure Mr. Atkins is right. If you use, say, Lightroom, to do your

conversions, it uses an internal color space for all of its work and only converts to sRGB

or whatever when exporting to the final JPEG or Photoshop file.

Bob is correct, it doesn't matter. You're confusing rendering and encoding. On has to

take place before the other. The encoding (selecting a color space) has to happen

after rendering and in this case, its an option you're selecting when you ask the

camera to build a JPEG (render) for that encoding:

 

http://tinyurl.com/addyk

 

As to the Raw data having a color space, that's a totally different discussion and

one that's somewhat open to debate. In the case of the OP, you can set the camera

to whatever you wish, the Raw isn't affected (same for White Balance and any

matrix or picture style settings), that's only EXIF data suggestions a Raw converter

may recognize and use, or totally ignore. The Raw isn't affected one bit. Only ISO

and exposure affect this data and both are quite different in terms of JPEG from the

camera or optimal data for Raw conversions:

http://www.digitalphotopro.com/tech/exposing-for-raw.html

Dave Holland has said what I was going to. ;-)

 

I'll just add, do all your image adjustments in AdobeRGB colour space. This way Photoshop has access to the full range of tones when processing your images. Save as a 16-bit TIFF file - or Photoshop format if you have multiple layers. Then convert your colour space to sRGB before printing or for web use. I always convert to an 8-bit colour mode as well so I can save as a jpeg (unavailable in 16-bit mode).

 

Does it matter if you're shooting RAW? I'm not sure to be honest, but I always set-up the camera for maximum quality incase I do shoot some jpegs. Just remember to convert back in Photoshop after processing.

So Andrew. If my camera is set to Adobe RGB and I bring an image through Bridge to ACR that image is virginal. However it is encoded with the color space set on the camera. So when the image is moved from ACR the encoding tells PS CS3 that it was shot in Adobe RGB. But, PS knowing that I have sRGB set up tells me that there is a mismatch in coler space. I get three options. Use the mismatch. Convert to sRGB. or, discard the encoding altogher. Now I usually convert. What is the practical effect in PS of using the other two options? Are my above assumptions correct? Keep it simple. You guys can get over my head in a nano second.

Raw files have no color space assignment. There might be EXIF data that Bridge or

LR sees that indicates the encoding set on the camera, it plays no role here. The

only way you tell ACR what encoding space you wish is by clicking on the workflow

options at the bottom of the UI and select one of the four color spaces. Then the

image is rendered and encoded into that color space (I'd highly recommend

ProPhoto RGB in 16-bit).

 

When any image is opened in Photoshop and it doesn't match the color space

you've selected in color settings AND you have the warning check box on, an error

is popped to inform you of the mismatch. You want to preserve the color space.