"Add a Sponge" what's that??

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by travis|1, Jan 18, 2002.

  1. just sent in my M3 and M4p to add" sponge" to prevent "light leaks" causing black lines in my prints.

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    If light has ever leaked, shouldn't the lines be white? and not black?

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    Has anyone added "sponges" at the back plates before?
     
  2. Since you've already sent the 2 cameras in I'm not sure what help you
    can get here. We're you actually getting black lines on your
    prints? Who/what prompted you to send them in? Where did you send
    them? I have never, ever encountered a "sponge" (foam) anywhere in
    an M Leica. It isn't part of the design, and not something any of the
    trained Leica techs I know would do or advocate.
     
  3. Travis, didn't you go over this problem a week or so ago? It was
    evident at the time that your processor was screwing up your negs,
    has he suggested that you send in your cameras? I hope if this turns
    out not to solve the problem, as it almost certainly will, that your
    lab is going to foot the repair bill. Never ever ever ever listen to
    anything a lab tells you. Just change labs. And make sure you get the
    free replacement films off them.

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    What you had was tramlines, from your description and that's got
    nothing to do with light leaks.
     
  4. Rob, thx.

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    Its funny that the tramlines occurred on m3+50cron and m4p+35cronasph.

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    How could 2 setups end up with the same tramlines?

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    My cameras are still under warranties and the vendor said by adding a
    sponge inside the backplate might solve the problem. He thinks its
    light leak.

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    But I have to agree with u that if light has leaked, there should not
    be tramlines.

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    I will definitely send to another lab just to be very sure.

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    In the meantime, I was hoping anyone could tell me anything
    about "sponges", cos I have heard 2 leica people talking abt it and
    telling me that they too had similar experience.

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    ;) bad stroke of luck..
     
  5. How could two setups end up with the same tramlines? Proof that it's
    the lab's fault! _They_ are the ones putting them there!

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    I recently shot a large quantity of film in Pakistan. Tramlines
    tramlines everywhere. The damn lab ruined some terrific pictures and
    you can't always fix the problem with photoshop and keep it looking
    natural. And they weren't for the family album.

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    Go back to the lab and shout at them. It won't fix the tramlines but
    at least you'll feel better about being ripped off and lied to.
     
  6. Rob, were your tramlines straight? and in multiples?

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    sigh...I had quite a few good shots ruined too. ;(
     
  7. Sponges? Where would these sponges go to prevent light
    leaks?
     
  8. those sponges could easily go on that developing machine, I´m having
    the same problem with lab I´m using, I won´t waste time complaining,
    change lab, or do it myself.
     
  9. Black lines on prints are caused by _scratches on the film_. Nothing else. So, somewhere along the way your film's getting scratched. This has absolutely nothing to do with light leaks.

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    If you're bulk-loading film, stop. That's a scratch factory, caused either by a bulk-loader that pulls film through a felt-slit light trap, by grit in the felt lips of re-used cassettes or both.

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    Assuming you're not bulk-loading, carefully check and clean the the camera film chamber, but in a Leica there's really nothing touching the emulsion side of the film that could scratch it. Scratches caused by grit on the pressure plate would print as white lines, not black.

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    That leaves only scratches during processing. That you're getting the marks on film from two cameras strongly supports that conclusion, assuming you're using only manufacturer-loaded film.

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    Cameras that have hinged backs (most 35mm) usually have a strip of foam on the hinge end and perhaps another strip of foam on the other end plus foam or twine around the entire back; it's _very_ common to get light leaks in older cameras in which the foam has rotted or been damaged. That's most likely what the lab's telling you, but the fact is that Leicas aren't built that way and if your cameras did indeed have light leaks they'd show as _white_ on prints, not black.

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    Leicas _do_ have a couple of internal covers held in place by scews through which light could leak, but these are _not_ foam, it's very rare for one of those to leak, and again a leak would cause white marks.
     
  10. Hey guys, how about a definition here? I have heard about tram cars,
    tramroads, and tramways. What is a tramline? You are apparently not
    speaking about a "British streetcar line". Right? LB
     
  11. I think the light sealing on the M has been solved for enough years
    (going on 50) without stuffing sponges into them. They don't need to
    be wrapped in duct tape, either. I think I would suggest that the
    sponges be stuffed in the processor, instead. Maybe even into his
    machine.
     
  12. Luther, tramlines are parallel scratches running horizontally across
    the film. They come out as black or white lines in printing or
    scanning.
     
  13. Thanks, Rob for the definition. Interesting that I had not come
    across this word usage before. Suspect that I am not the only one
    who benefitted from it. Have a good day! LB
     
  14. Hi,
    I have a M2 that has two vertical felt linings in the housing that
    are not present in other cameras. When and where they had been
    mounted I don't know, but obviously the only purpose could be to
    prevent light from leaking.
    The camera had a CLA, but I can't remember if the felt was already
    mounted before that.

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    Johannes
     
  15. In order to answere your problem I would approach it from an aspect of elimination.
    1.Do I bulk load myself: Yes) Probable cause a) Grit in loader or b) Grit in reloadable cassette.
    Do I bulk load: No-then go to 2.
    2. When I remove film from my camera do I return exposed film to its container or do I put it into my pocket( another probable means of contamination .
    3. How about the Photo.Lab.do they leave the film in its container when it is handed in for processing, or do they remove the film and place it into a bag for future processing.
    Having eliminated all the above probable causes of (Black tramlines appearing on your prints, with of course duplicate scratches on the negatives) the only conclusion that I can come to is that the Processor at your lab is faulty or that the film is being pulled out of the cassette instead of their breaking the cassette open before processing.
    This all with the understanding that there is indeed physical scratching on the negatives themselves.
    As to the light leak and introduction of "sponges".can I assume the sponges are intended to excert more pressure on the pressure plate which has the possibility of scratching further. If the pressure was too little, would not there possibly be flare around each exposure, not scratches.
    If sponges where ment to exclude light from the camera back, would there not be patches of Flare not scratches?.(i.e. Tramlines are an age old name for longtitudinal lines produced by foreign matter abrading film. (this is for Luther's edification) Coops,
     

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