Ability to [ DISAPPROVE ] ?

Just saw it on my portfolio page.<br>

I'm now able to choose the comments I want to see on my page.<p>

<b>Is it serious ?</b><br>

I don't think at all it can be useful and constructive.

Oh, for heaven's sake this is too much! Are people's egos so brittle that they can now censor

comments on their work. This site is pandering to the insecure, and as such is loosing

credibility as a valid site where one can expect to recieve honest and objective critisism (good

or bad).

 

In disbelief, Nick.

He he ... may be soon, I'll be able to choose ratings!<br>

Please admins, fix out this... Anyone needs to choose the comments on their work.

You can not please all of the people, all of the time.

I guess those gentle souls who are offended by criticism will now be able to sleep at night.

 

Even pleasing some of the people some of the time can be difficult.

My plan is that people will be able to disapprove comments on (a) their portfolios (b) their photos, except those which have been submitted for critique; and © their presentations. If a person submits a photo for critique then he is inviting critique, and will not be able to disapprove any comments. I've implemented the first part of this, the portfolios, today.

 

In effect, each photographer becomes the moderator of comment threads on their portfolios, presentations, and photos -- other than photos submitted for critique. Some of the moderators will be good moderators and some won't. The good moderators will use this ability only to suppress the same comments that the moderators would remove if they had time. The ones that are bad moderators will suppress valuable comments and will probably stop getting comments. People will spend their time writing critiques of the portfolios and photos where the photographer seems to welcome critiques. Photographers who delete valid criticism will probably only get the comments they want and deserve; that is, the fawning compliments. They might also find themselves having to "disapprove" a lot of complaints about censorship, if they are too heavy-handed with the "disapprove" button. Moderating isn't so easy. So be it.

 

The other moderators and I will focus on moderating the photos that are submitted for critique. We will be able to say to the many requests we get complaining about comments: you submitted it for critique, and so you can't complain about criticism.

One "game" that comes instantly to mind is sniping at other users by leaving deliberate negative comments that they will feel have to bedisaproved, thus making them look like they are heavy handed with moderation. You can't make yourself look good, but you can make someone else look bad. Of course then the recipient can retaliate by leaving negative comments on their critics portfolio and so on to a meltdown.

 

Given a way to screw things up, some people are only too happy to oblige. Will their be a public count of the number of comments a given user has given and which have been disaproved by the recipient?

 

Of course this may actually be a feature of the system. Those inclined to play games may indeed "meltdown", though I suspect we will hear cries of innocence if and when it happens.

 

It's certainly an interesting experiment. Hope it works.

Well the "disapproved" comments won't be deleted, and I will be taking an interest in which photographers seem to be disapproving a lot of comments (and why). And in those who are having a lot of comments disapproved. If someone seems to be baiting photographers to delete their comments, those comments will still be visible to the moderators, and those people will most likely get themselves banned.

I heartily welcome the new system in PN. Its not necessary to suck up all the comments to "DECORATE" own portfolio.

Bought my first SLR last year, found this site and started to learn. Read most of Philip's articles and keep coming back to check the top photos, the default page and the All Time Photographer Average. After reading 20 praises from the top photo in the 3 days average, I had no clue why that picture was good, half year later, I figured that out, it's called mate-rating. Now this part has been fixed, but how about the All Time queue? Brian, I think you are building a Disney Land on top of the volcano after implement the second part. Many people used to call that a hill. I am going down hill now.

a little technical problem Brian... the option to edit/correct our own comments on our own pages just disappeared ?!

Then why we should invite critique if we have the power to disagree/delete the negetive ones?

I belive Brian pointed out that if you INVITE critique, you don't get to delete the comments. See his post above:

 

"...If a person submits a photo for critique then he is inviting critique, and will not be able to disapprove any comments..."

If you submit a photo to the Critique Forum ("submit it for critique"), you won't be able to remove any of the comments. It will be the same as before.

 

The change only affects people who are uploading their photos to photo.net mainly for the purpose of exhibiting them, not for critique, and do not want to depend on the photo.net moderators to remove comments that they find embarassing.

Brian, congratulations: you finally managed to completely kill what was left of an already dying criticism on photo.net. Thanks to the next generation of happy mate-raters, I believe the site should now get hundreds if not thousands of paying new mates.

 

I'm really glad, I deleted 95% of my portfolio. Glad also that I decided not to post random comments in the gallery anymore - anyway, they'd be deleted, so what for ? Finally, glad most of my past harsh comments will go to the trash...

 

How incredibly buiseness-minded this site has become ! Does photo.net still stand for anything at all pertaining to photography, or is it just about new suscriber dollars and less moderation time wasted ?

 

And now, what do you expect people to learn anything from on photo.net - may I ask ?

"The change only affects people who are uploading their photos to photo.net mainly for the purpose of exhibiting them, not for critique, and do not want to depend on the photo.net moderators to remove comments that they find embarassing."

 

No, Brian. The change affects people who did criticize their work in the past, and the readers who won't read these past comments and will no longer see such comments in the future.

I'm confused. Does this mean if we delete a comment on our own photos then we have to leave an explaination as to why we are deleting it?

Marc, you seem to have overlooked the fact that photos submitted for critique will not be affected by this change. So sorry that if you give your esteemed opinion to people who have not asked for it, they will be able to remove it. You might want to confine yourself to giving your opinion where it is wanted. On photos, I mean...

I hereby register my disapproval of the option to disapprove of and remove any comments that fail to meet my approval. I would however approve if the option to disapprove and remove met with universal disapproval and was removed.

At least put back the 'edit/delete' feature for my own comments ......... sighhh.

 

What percentage of the membership had a problem with this before ? A fraction I assume. 'Needs of the many vs. the needs of the few' - again. I'm sorry Brian - all due respects for your efforts here over the years. I've been a member for close to 4 years now and have kept my mouth shut as I watched it slowly degrade over the last 3 years. Three years ago the site was a Masterpiece compared to other sites imwo. If you have a 'Mona Lisa' you don't keep touching it up to *improve it* - figuratively speaking.

 

At least put back the 'edit/delete' feature for my own comments left on mine or other portfolios ...

 

<there, feel better now Ken ? - not really> ...

Marc has a good point and I approve of Keith's disapproval .....

Ken, three years ago the site was completely free, had about 200 subscribers, and didn't have any advertising at all other than links to B&H, Adorama, and Amazon. It also had probably 10% of the traffic and members that it has now.

 

The plug was also very close to being pulled because there wasn't anybody left who wanted to keep pouring money into it, including Philip Greenspun himself.

 

I'm sorry that you see the intervening three years as negative. But the comparison is not between what the site was three years ago and what it is now. It is between what it is now and what it would have been if many of the changes had not occurred. And where it would have been if those changes had not been made is GONE to the Happy Internet-in-the-Sky for dead web sites.

I supported this idea a while ago for the portfolio view. Theconcern was that people were posting OT comments, such as how you rated one of their images. I have one that complains about the PN layout - certainly not under my control. I ignored the former, but tried to explain the latter.

 

The reason I would like to delete all three is because they have no business appearing in what amounts to a guest book designed - I though - to comment on your portfolio, for the benefit of both PN members and nonregistered guests. Now I see that someone visiting my portfolio would have to read a reference to three deleted comments and would certainly wonder what sort of content provoked the deletion. So the cleaning up of the comment section has really not been achieved.

 

Regarding individual photo critiques, by making it retroactive to the time before there was a critique-only option, you are indeed anesthetizing the discussions on images that were uploaded for the expressed purpose of getting high visibility. The loophole that allowed them to circumvent the TRP is now the same loophole that will allow them to whitewash discussion.

 

May I suggest that you consider allowing comments to be deleted only on images that have no ratings (past) and/or don't permit them (present).

 

And please allow for clean deletions on portfolio views.

Thank you for the courteous reply Brian - I appreciate it. You make some very good points as well.

 

Any chance of re-adding the 'edit/delete' option for my own comments ?

 

EdgyInOregon ...

Brian, I think the danger isn't with potential for abuse as much as the perception of catering to the lowest common detonator. The issue I see is more a case of Human Psychology to be developed in the form of nurturing a friendly site culture, as opposed to Strategic Psychology to address every lowest common denominator with a countermeasure without a correlating global strategy. <br><br>

I can't speak for everyone, but I do believe loyalty to a community originates from a sense of belonging where everyone is encouraged to get along. An adversarial culture, on the other hand, will certainly be disruptive and counter to your goals. If we're in agreement, then why not take steps in the direction beginning with an expanded FAQ spelling out policies in detail, followed by appealing to member's sense of decency to discourage disgruntled posts in this forum.