A stupid question - on eye-control focus

I have and use EOS 5 (A2/A2E). I was thinking of upgrading to digital and with

my whole heart and soul I ASSUMED a modern-day digital SLR will NATURALLY have

eye-control, since it's there in A2E for eons back. But to my biggest surprise,

I found NO .. not there. (Okay - didn't look at the 1XX series) Wonder - why?

Several speculations have been bantered about. The last explanation I heard was that Canon did not hear from enough professionals that thought the idea good enough to continue with. It's a shame really. I thought it was a great feature, and used it on the Elan IIe. I found ECF on the EOS 5 to be a bit slow and not always accurate, but later models improved it.

 

Every time this comes up we have about a 50/50 split in who wants it and who doesn't. Plus it didn't work for everyone, so there were complaints. I would gladly pay an extra $100 for the feature.

I, for one, have never understood why we need eye controlled focus! A serious photographer needs "I control focus"- setting, isn't it ?

 

While shooting a picture I might have decided where to focus and then looked at somewhere else through the viewfinder- then what happens? I dont control the focus any more, right ? The eye does! That is unacceptable to me !

 

I almost always focus manually, hence no impact of it on me anyway!

 

To me it was very ametuerish and obviously will not be popular with serious shooters. Hence the lack of it in any serious camera!

I dunno, I'm a serious photographer and loved ECF on my Elan 7E and EOS 3. It sure beat the

poop outta using the joystick thingie on my 5D to select off-center AF points. However, it's

merely one choice among several for focus. Sometimes I just use the center AF point. Yeah, I

know, using only one AF point is so "amateurish," just like deciding MF is better or auto AF

selection. Sheesh, these are mere tools and an artist merely chooses the one that works best

for them. If you don't like ECF, you can turn it off and pretend it's not there.

Not a stupid question at all. The ONLY reason I haven't upgraded my current 35mm digital Canon is because they haven't offered EYE Activated Focus - yet.. I definitely fall into the category of a 'serious' photographer.

 

Swapan ("I don't like it. I manually focus anyway, so it's no impact on me "),

 

If you'd ever used it, you'd understand.

It is <b>FABULOUS</b>.

To set focus you look 'hard' at the area you want to be in focus. It takes a split second of concentration. Then it is definitely possible to 'gently' look around before pressing the shutter to be sure all is well.

 

<b>After you've used it for a while, it is truly as if the photographer and camera are ONE. As if the camera can read your mind.</b> Soooo much better and faster than either the joystick method or focus, recompose and shoot.

 

I can't help but wonder if the people who have had problems have bothered to calibrate.

 

It's the single new feature I want most in a digital SLR.

 

I hope Canon will listen. I really, really hope they will.

 

Paz

While not required, I liked the feature. Did you actually ever use it Swapan?

From the way Swapan described its operation, I think it's obvious he hasn't used it. Still, not all users did like it, and not all could get it to work for them.

Simple explanation - no demand. Those few who like EC, like it to death! The rest (oh, I'd say the remaining 99%) wouldn't care less. The PR person for Canon USA stated recently that holding one's breath waiting for EC in DSLRs wouldn't be prudent.

Eye control was a failure & not practical for many photographers.

Just try to make it work with glasses on. It does not work, or is not reliable at all. It is also impractical to take off glasses to take a photo, then back on to see clearly.

 

I hope Canon does not waste engineering time adding this useless option to the digital SLR line.

I used it with glasses. Worked fine for me.

 

"The rest (oh, I'd say the remaining 99%)..." -- Interesting statistic, too bad it's so highly doubtable. The arguments for and against by actual users still seem to run closer to 50/50.

I don't miss it one bit, so you know which part of the 50/50 split I'm on. I've used both an EOS-3 and an Elan IIe which had it.

 

Canon never used it on their pro (series 1) bodies because it probably wasn't reliabale enough for pro use (though some EOS 3 users would disagree) and presumably there was no demand for it.

 

There could be some technical reasons why it's difficult with the smaller viewfinder of the APS-C cameras, or Canon could have just decided that adding it wouldn't get them more sales than leaving it off and keeping the price lower.

 

I'd put it up there with DO lenses as an interesting technical idea that some people like but which really isn't something that's in huge demand.

I used it consistantly with my IIe along with partial metering. I do miss it and hope that Canon comes out with it again. In the mean time, my 40D is doing just fine.

I bought a nice Canon 5 precisely to get a camera with the feature because of its historical importance. I suppose you could get used to it, but like most, I gather, I found it a nicer talking point than a useful feature.

 

Kind of like voice control of your computer.

 

Jim got it right, this one always splits the views, but history seems to have passed it by so I wouldn't wait for it.

Here is a quote from Chuck Westfall (Canon USA's main media spokesman for new camera products.)<br><br><i><b>

 

"I have stated numerous times on the Web and at least twice in Tech Tips that it is obvious by now that the omission of ECF in EOS Digital SLRs is a marketing decision, not a technical issue. We get user requests for ECF from time to time, but to be blunt, customer demand so far has been insufficient to justify adding this feature. I'll never say never, but don't hold your breath on this one"

<br><br></b></i>

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0803/tech-tips.html

How dumb is that. I hope some other company does it and shows them wrong.

Well, if ECF was so hot and in such high demand, wouldn't other manufacturers kill themselves to incude it on their models..? The truth is that the masses don't really want ECF.

There COULD be a 50/50 split. I agree. To me, I always used a EOS 5, which is Gen.I ECF and use spectacles and yes : it does miss, here and there. But, after a time I realized it does require calibration. The manual says it, I have experienced it and frankly I have spent that FIVE minutes re-calibrating it and bingo it really did get better and better. I can bet on anything that most who curse it, might have used it, when failed switched the thing off .. without giving a thought to re-calibration under diff lighting conditions, environments, etc. I recently went to B&H, took a 5D, put all the focus points as *active* and decided to try it here and there. What I found was many times, the focus point being used for focusing is NOT what I want! So, what do I do here? Tell me please ... Press that tiny button, do a roll baby roll with the wheel till i get the focus point I need , re-focus and shoot. Option B (which I used) ... use the center focus only Option C: Re-position the camera .. question: WHY? WHY? WHY? and loose the frame I like? On the other hand, if there was ECF at the very least, even if fails ... the point is, there's an option. Someone commented here wastage of engg. hrs. Oh c'mon, the tech. is already there, patented and available. Can be plugged in. I think the VP's response is valid, the marketing guys didn't want it, period. I am thinking ... is there any concerned forum which Canon looks at? Maybe, that 50% who want it can start polling there?

ECF was one of the reasons for choosing Canon over Nikon when I bought my Elan IIe. It

works extremely well for me. I'd also be willing to pay a premium for a digital camera with

that feature.

I used it all the time on my EOS3! it worked perfectly and yes, Canon should put it back on all its EOS cameras...just because I said so ;)

 

Seriously, it's the thing I miss the most. ECF along with the 45 point AF the EOS3 an amazing machine.

The reason they don't have such demand is probably (my guess of course) that many of Canon's current users got into the EOS system with their digital cameras (like the 300D, 60D, etc...) therefore, they may never have heard of it. But, i am pretty sure that, if Canon were to re-introduec it, the posts about "focus" and recompose would nearly disappear.

 

So, Chuck's statement is based on a somewhat shortsighted assumption by Canon's marketing team which doesn't take into consideration the percentage of NEW users' VS those who switched from EOS film cameras.

 

Again, my guess is that Canon acquired more NEW users that those who switched from ECF quipped cameras.

Marketing Decision

 

 

A simple answer from Canon is to have two versions of their new 40d, a 40d without ECF and a new one, say a 40ed, with ECF. Consumer market growth would soon dictate the popularity of ECF.

 

A few examples; Elan II and Elan IIe, Elan 7 and 7e, Elan 7n and Elan 7ne, manual transmision automobile or one with an automatic transmision, etc.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with Giampi ... the whole set of NEW users who never used or saw ECF would never want it or talk about it. Introduce it and bingo there's going to be a following. (If Nikon reads this and does this first, I can guarantee B&H will see a HUGE jump in Nikon sales)

I use ECF on my EOS 3 and 5 all the time. I miss it on my 30D. I want it. I wear very strong glasses and it still works.

Bob - we know you fall in the *other* 50%, but can you get Canon's attention to this? I am sure, when you buy lens, talk to Canon folks, etc. etc. *remind* them of ECF please?

It seems ridiculous to be so staunchly against ECF, when one can simply switch it off. I had it on my Elan 7e, and it was OK, but much better on my EOS 3. The lack of an ECF option on Canon digital SLR's has been the biggest reason I'm still using my EOS 3. There's no way I'm going to select a focusing point with a wheel, unless I'm shooting still lifes or landscapes. Even then, I'd proabably go to manual focus, which I do anyway in those situations with my EOS 3. ECF is best when you need to compose and shoot quickly, and other methods just can't keep up, at least not in my hands.