A question of cost...

Hey everyone, I got a question about how much to charge for a photo. I'm not a full time photographer, though I would like to start moving that way, and the only money I've ever taken were donations/tips. Mostly I shoot band performances, usually in small clubs and venues, and recently bands have been asking to hire me for shoots. There seems to be a lot of info about pricing for all sorts of things but I have one request right now I'm not sure what to charge, it's a promo shot for a brand endorsement and they only need a single photo. I'm not sure what a fair price for this is, can anyone help me? Thanks

If you have never done this kind of work, do it for free. Don't practice on paying customers. The minute you take money for your work, you become a pro, and must deliver like a pro. If you can't do that, don't charge.

I'm not practicing on anyone, I'm asking what a fair price for such a photo would be

Varies by region and by use. You need to know what the photo will be used for. A quick social media post is much different than regional or national marketing use. One-time use is much different than perpetual use. You need to educate yourself by talking to others in that specific industry, as well as research what is fair market use for the specific use the band intends.

 

If the band is asking you what to charge, it's likely they don't know what it's worth either. Find out what it's going to be used for, then come back here looking for an answer. Without that, you might as well come here and ask "What's a car going for these days?" without giving any more information about what kind of car you need.

 

I know that doesn't answer your question, and that you're probably here to get a quick and easy answer without having to actually do the research. Unfortunately, it's in your best interest to actually do the research.

Edited May 24, 2017 by michaelchadwickphotography

You do not provide information as to where you are located and what other viable options that the band has or what budget that they have: however, here are a few ideas that you might consider, and let's talk in AUS$ and an example taken from where I work:

 

You mention that you already have experience shooting bands. With the experience that you have, will come some idea of how much time that you will need to invest in you making this one brand endorsement promotional image.

 

So you can (should be able to) reasonably extrapolate an idea of TIME. (Including Post Production). Let's say for example you think you'll need 5 hours. And let's say that your daytime job is a Plumber and you charge out your time at $60.00 per hour for a simple job - but you have ten years experience as a plumber and you are a very good plumber, one who gets the job done right - and right the first time. So, by comparison, it is not reasonable to assume you should charge the same for your time working as a "photographer" and also as a Plumber you might have one of those sophisticated video eels that go into blocked pipes and the other tool which spins out water at an incredible pressure at a gazillion RPM to nuke tree roots blocking the pipes - down here that tool costs several thousand dollars - so let's say you think that $30.00 per hour is fair, because you don't have the experience to set up the job and get it done in two hours and you might not have all the necessary gear to produce a top class job efficiently. So the total price for the shoot could be $150.00

 

Next you could extrapolate a value on the product's USE - that is the rights for other Entities (People or Businesses) to use the image that you make. This can be a minefield of complexity or as simple as you want to make it. I've been selling images for "Commercial Use" since 1975 and for nearly every sale I have made it really 'simple' - in lay terms to the client "one off price use the image for your advertising and promotional use and I retain the copyright". The trick is to negotiate (or better know before the negotiation) what are the Client's budget and other options. If you want a ball park figure - you firstly need to know who is paying - the band (maybe all poor musicians?) or the company which is being "endorsed" (maybe an advertising bloke who has $1000 to spend without getting that figure cleared from his boss).

 

So really you're in guessometry land here and no-one, not even the most experienced can really give adequate advice on a dollar figure without knowing much more about the details of the situation . . . and of course, some detailed business advice often comes at a cost (or an "investment"), by you even if that is a small investment of buying a book on the subject or going to a seminar or two. But you want a ball-park figure so I think $100 or $200 is an OK ballpark figure for "use".

 

So you now have one (experienced) person's guideline of what you might charge - and also a rough overview of a really simple way to get to perhaps different answers, yourself.

 

BUT - I think that there was much more in Charles' commentary than you might have realized: he mentioned (my bold/underlined now for emphasis):

"The minute you take money for your work, you become a pro, and must deliver like a pro. If you can't do that, don't charge."

 

I glean that you might interpret that phrase as (simply) meaning "you must deliver the photo like a pro".

 

It doesn't.

 

It means far more than that. It means that you must deliver the SERVICE and the photo like a pro. . .

 

Let's go back to the fiction of you as "a plumber" and let's say that you have that whirly-gig thingy to clean out my blocked drain - I live around a lot of trees on the edge of a National Park - the last time I got my Plumber to rid my pipes of tree roots it cost me $450. He arrived with his apprentice and they both worked for 45 minutes - not bad remuneration for "TIME" - let's roughly quantify that as $400 per hour for the Plumber and $200 per hour for the apprentice . . . but what if he broke my pipe or worse the whirly-gig thing blew up and hit a pedestrian outside my house - he has insurance: if you spin about and your camera knocks over a glass and that cuts a kid's head - are you insured for On Site Public Liability and Third Party Personal Injury? Sure, it is a small chance that will happen - but I have that insurance coverage.

 

Next up, what if the band asks you to explain in simple terms the "usage rights" section in your contact - (you have a contract detailed and ticked off by a fellow or lady experienced in Photography Contracts yes/no?), can you do that?

 

Next up what if the (paying) client is the company (not the band) and they want the necessary paperwork for their Accountants to ledger the payment as a tax deduction for this financial year - can you do that?

 

All these elements (and more, depending upon the laws of your locality) will apply, once you take money for supply of Goods and Services - that was part of the advice that Charles was providing to you.

 

WW

. . . research what is fair market use for the specific use the band intends . . . Find out what it's going to be used for, then come back here looking for an answer . . . you're probably here to get a quick and easy answer without having to actually do the research. Unfortunately, it's in your best interest to actually do the research.

 

Yes. All that too.

 

WW

"All these elements (and more, depending upon the laws of your locality) will apply, once you take money for supply of Goods and Services - that was part of the advice that Charles was providing to you"

 

Exactly, thank you for your understanding and amplification of what I was trying to communicate.

 

Too often beginners believe that photography begins and ends with the photograph. If you wish to be a professional photographer, there is much, much more to it than that.

You're most welcome Charles.

 

Two of the (many) reasons that I made such a big 'amplification' were:

 

> because (it appears) that the OP chose to post the question in the "Business Forum" - and "Business" is 'serious' stuff - if any forum requires a 'professional' response, it is the Business Forum.

 

> because the OP stated, (my bold and underlined for emphasis):

"I'm not a full time photographer, though I would like to start moving that way,"

 

Part way to becoming a full time 'professional', in any capacity, is to move, act and communicate in such a manner with other professionals.

 

In this conversation, the OP has had a few direct and a few implied requests made of him/her... it's really now over to the OP to move on those requests in the direction of his/her choice.

 

WW

Thanks for your explanation William Michael, I'm not sure if I'm any closer to the answers I want but it's given me something to think about, such as if I'd be better served by switching from photography to business management.

A large part of running a (successful) Photography Business, is providing that business with the (essential) good business management.

 

The same applies to a Plumber in his/her own business - the Plumbers who are successful are the ones who are good Plumbers AND are good Business People.

 

One salient difference between a Plumber who sets up their OWN business and a Photographer who sets up there OWN business, is that in many (most) States and Countries Plumbers are required to complete a Certified Course, Apprenticeship and then be "Licensed" in some manner.

 

The actual process of completing the Course and an Apprenticeship and then seeking a License, usually means the would be new business owner, is aware of and has to attend to, many of the matters which have been mentioned in this conversation.

 

The same applies to many other Trades and Professions, but rarely now, Photography.

 

WW

Photography is a business, and yes, it has to be managed just like any other. Artists often have a hard time thinking of themselves as business people, and we all wish that we could just shoot and the business would take care of itself. That just isn't the case. Much of the time, a photographer fails at it not because they are a bad photographer, but because they do not understand the business. It's a necessary evil, and can mean the difference between owning your business or just shooting for someone else's business. There is nothing wrong with working for someone else's business. You don't have to worry about negotiating fees, payroll, taxes, advertising, marketing, or any of that other stuff. However, I hope you will think about owning the business yourself. Here's why...

 

Yes, the costs of doing business can be hard, but if you do it right, the rewards can far outweigh those costs.

Edited May 24, 2017 by michaelchadwickphotography