A few suggestions...

Just a few suggestions to try to clean up things a bit:

 

1. Since the digital versus film debate will not go away (and people

obviously WANT to continue debating the issue) why not start a new

forum called the "Digital Versus Film Forum"; or, if you like,

the "Film Versus Digital Forum"? What's happened is that this one

issue, about which many people have strong opinions, has rendered the

Leica Photography Forum the equivalent of a political board, such as

a Kerry versus Bush forum. Nastiness always seems to follow any such

debates. If the film versus digital debate is unavoidable and won't

go away then why not put the debate in a forum that won't detract

from other, less controversial topics that people wish to discuss. In

other words, keep the acrimony isolated in an unavoidably acrimonious

forum and let people fight until they're bloody.

 

2. Why not turn this forum into one dedicated to 35mm photography?

Call it the Oskar Barnak Forum. There are medium format and large

format forums. There is one dedicated to digital cameras. Why not one

for 35mm photgraphy? It could be a site for posting pictures too,

regardless of the camera used. If people choose to post 35mm type

pics taken with a digital camera, who's going to know?

 

3. Expand the Digital Camera Forum and call it the Digital

Photography Forum. Allow people to post any type of digital pictures

they want there, particularly the digitally enhanced, non-35mm, photo-

shopped types of pictures.

 

4. Keep a Leica Camera Forum so people will have a place to find out

where to get a CLA for a screw mount IIIF; or to find out how a Leica

Summilux compares to a Voigtlander Nokton; or to even find out about

Leica digital equipment.

 

Just a few ideas for thought or discussion...

 

Happy Holidays.

 

Dennis

As long as we have the RD-1 it will be hard to seperate the two IMO.

We could make an exeption for photographs made with M or LTM mount lenses regardless of what make or kind of body. Things really did get out of hand yesterday over a simple question about who still makes wet process prints. It shouldn't matter why they do.

Dennis, you can't stop people from coming/going into any forums, let alone stopping them from saying the things they wanna in wherever they are. Photonet, like the world, is not perfect. Nothing's gonna change with 10 different forums.

Leave it alone. Too much attempt at compartmentalization could ruin any sense of community. We'd all have to check two or three forums for specific types of questions, as opposed to ignoring the threads we aren't interested in. The value of a community is to cross-pollinate ideas and contributions within a defined boundry of topics, in this case, Leica Photography. Given that Leica itself spans from the dawn of practical photography to the latest digital age, that inherent timespan means that you're going to see a lot of variety of questions, much of what makes the marquee and the people interesting.

Travis:

 

I understand what you're saying. Recently I read a comment by Bob Atkins to the effect that one should not expect "nice people" on the PN forums... or on the internet for that matter. But what I am saying is that this digital versus film debate is not going away. The reason it keeps coming up is because apparently some people want to keep talking about it. The debate detracts from the non-controversial aspects of photography. And why should photography be controversial to begin with? Nevertheless I think that if some people want to cointinue the acrimony then let'em have their own venue where they can fight it out every day about digital versus film if they like (eventually they may get tired). In the meantime I also think the forums could be cleaned up a bit by giving 35mm photography its due. Just my opinions...

 

Dennis

... how about just making a new Category (alongside

Accessories,

Administration,

Books etc) like Digital News or so.

No, leave it alone. Some people will always feel the need to comment or take swipes about

which they have no experience. Fact of life...

It's kinda like being given a complimentary suite at a nice hotel for you and your wife to have a romantic stay... but then having to share it with another couple that's fighting. It's hard not being dragged into it. ;>)

 

Dennis

ahhh, leave it as is...

Leave it alone. It's an amusing diversion (perversion?) when this forum runs completely off the rails. You never know what it's going to crash into.

Actually, it's a subversive plot to kill off the dig/film debate, once and for all, with kindness.

 

(And it would probably be effective.)

Dennis: I agree with you 100% and have been saying so ever since I became a PN

subscriber. For quite a while I allowed the small (but hardcore and disproportionately

vocal) cadre of anarchists on the Leica Forum to really get under my skin. Lately, however,

I've been learning to largely ignore them. These guys won't go away even if we paid them,

so I guess we just have to learn to accept what we can not change.

HCB was an anarchist.

<I>These guys won't go away even if we paid them, ...</I><P>

 

Everyone has a price...<P>

<I>Since the digital versus film debate will not go away</i><P>The reason it doesn't go away is that virtually all the inflamatory remarks that initiate film vs digital debates start with some loser who doesn't own a dSLR and has never made commercial quality color digital print spewing his expertise on the topic. They then look for groupies to agree with them, which is a classic scenario here, especially in the Leica forum. The few times the moderators actually step in and start nuking that junk, the offender generally leaves and order returns. I've been begging/pleading for moderators to do it more and even resorted to baiting them by getting my own account suspended vs giving in to the cretins.<P>If somebody were to make a post in the B/W forum about how they preferred Tri-X over HP5, when in fact they'd never used HP5, they'd get laughed at and dissected mercilessly. Yet if you've never used a dSLR succesfully, you're allowed to make proclamations about digital photography as if it were the truth. That has nothing to do with the structure of the forums, which are fine if you ask me. If anything, you need a forum called <b>"Never used a DSLR, and never made a decent looking digital print, but I'm an expert".</b> If enforced, it would end 90% of film vs digital battles. Brian should set the thread expiration to 5-minutes, which is more than it's worth. <P><I>Things really did get out of hand yesterday over a simple question about who still makes wet process prints</i><P>I made one post which was brutal in it's truth, and left in disgust. Interesting you guys are still arguing about it. The function of the Leica forum is to promote small format, 400 speed B/W photography, and all other media including color, MF/LF and digital is inferiour by standard save for a few Kodachrome addicts. How somebody who only makes B/W RC prints in a tray with Dektol is suddenly an expert on color digital LightJet printing defies me, but then again, it's the Leica forum. <P>Who cares what HCB was.

A "35mm Forum"? That means those nasty Nikon and Canon users would be allowed in? Who knows? Someday, somebody who uses a Miranda might post. That's disgusting. :)

Brad obviously is not an anarchist...he paid his subscription fee.

Dennis, if what you're after is civility and harmony, I'm not sure anything other than more agressive moderation (call it censorship)will do it. Most of the D vs F stuff comes in the form of highjacking threads that started on other topics. I think everyone realizes that most of the time this is not done to foster discussion but to bait and antagonize and provoke flame wars. If there were fifty Digital vs Film forums the topic would still be forcibly inserted into Leica forum threads.

dennis,

 

ignore. don't respond. anyway, as grant emphatically said yesterday, the point is always, well, mute. :-)

It's certainly time for a Retired Sergeant Major's Costa Rican Contre Jour Daylight Auto Fill Flash Black and White Digital Leica Photoshopped Rainy Street Festival Forum. With and without borders.

"Never used a DSLR, and never made a decent looking digital print, but I'm an expert".

 

That may be true... but it's funny because I see a few people who probabaly have never even held a Leica posting disparging remarks about Leica. How this is handled though is the problem. Some folks act as though it is there mission in life to correct everyone else's perceived misinformation... and it's not just to correct them it seems; it's more like to put people in their place with insulting remarks. For the life of me I still cannot understand why anyone who has no interest in Leica Photography would hang out here... except to put down other people for maybe being wrong.

 

But my point is if the digital versus film debate won't go away then put it in a forum where it won't bother the rest of us. It's like that fighting couple... put'em in another suite.

 

Dennis

<I>That may be true... but it's funny because I see a few people who probabaly have never

even held a Leica posting disparging remarks about Leica.</I><P>

 

Please, Dennis, who? Not trying to start anything, but I think you are wrong!

<i>... it's more like to put people in their place with insulting remarks. </I><P>

 

Like this one that was hurled at me yesterday: <I>Or did you have to consult Webster

when I mentioned intaglio?</I>

yea dennis, who, enlighten us with your wizdum