A 617 Fotoman Camera has landed in the States

<p>Yep, I'm the proud owner of a Fotoman 617 camera. It came

in yesterday and

I'm having great fun playing with this cool new 617 system. I

would have had

a lens to put in it but I lost the bidding war on ebay last

weekend. So I just

ordered me a Fuji SWD 75mm from midwest and it should be

here in two days. </p>

<p>

First off, when I opened the DHL box, I was very impressed with

the steel box

the camera came in. Very cool. I then opened it up to find the

goods. inside

was the 617 camera, the lens cone, two cone extenders(5mm,

10mm) for rising

up the cone, focus mount, focus mount shims for raising the

height of the focus

ring, a spirit level, focus mount wrench, a small ground glass,

viewfinder that

is adjustable from 72mm to 90mm and a shutter cable.</p>

<p>The thing I find fun is figuring out the flange focus

depths(FFD) of different

75mm lenses and setting up the cone with spacers to the

correct FFD height.

The Fuji 75mm that I'm getting has a FFD of 85.1mm. So I can

get it as close

as 85mm with the shims and cone extenders. Now, I just need

my lens to mount

it in the focus ring and cone.</p>

<p>Here is a list of measurements of the camera, cone spacers,

cone, shims, and

focus ring so you can do some FFD calculations yourself.

Please remeber I got

this to shoot a 75mm lens. I'm not sure what their big cone

spacers look like.

But if this works out then I'm going to get a 300mm cone and

give it a run through.</p>

<p>Film plane to front edge of camera: 32mm<br>

10mm cone spacer - Optional<br>

5mm cone spacer - Optional<br>

Cone: 21mm<br>

shims for raising focus mount: 2mm, 1mm, .5mm<br>

focus mount: 15mm</p>

<p>With my 85.1mm FFD of my Fuji 75mm I will use this set

up:<br>

Camera 32mm, both spacers 15mm, cone 21, shim 2mm,

focus mount 15mm = 85mm<br>

</p>

<p>You then use the small piece of ground glass to do your

infinity focus test.

If it's on then load some film and start shooting. If it's off then it's

fine

tuning the spacers or shims.</p>

<p>Seeing that this is the first Fotoman in the states, I think I

need to do a

web log of this new fotoman adventure. Check my site in the

news, I might get

it started soon. Please let me know if you have any questions,

I'd be happy

to see if I can answer any of them.</p>

<p>I've been only shooting a Fuji G617 so this new 617 sould be

pretty fun!</p>

<p>Ross Wordhouse - The Panoscape Photographer<br>

<a

href="http://www.rosswordhouse.com">www.rosswordhouse.co

m</a></p>

<p><img

src="http://www.rosswordhouse.com/images/fotoman.jpg"></p>

Merry Christmas!

More than just pretty good stuff (talking about the pix, of course).

The wait for the delivery truck to roll down your street with your lens must agonizing :) Please post some comparative pics from each of your two camera models!

<p> Doug<p>

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~dougfisher/holder/mainintro.html">Dougs

MF Film Holder for batch scanning of 120/220 medium format film with flatbeds</a>

Ross, congrats on the new camera! What are your thoughts so far on the fit

and mechanics of it? I'm seriously considering buying a 612 version for use

with my 65mm Grandagon and a 500mm osaka but i am hesitant to purchase

any camera sight unseen.

 

Did you get it from Badger or direct from china? I would consider having

someone like SK Grimes mount the lens and set the focus. I'm curious about

the viewfinder matching your lens accurately and if the film spaces properly

and smoothly when advanced.

Ross I found this on your web site:

 

"4 of Ross's vert pano's where used by Fotoman Camera at the largest

photo tradeshow in the world, Photokina 2004."

 

Where those photos at Photokina taken with a Fotoman camera? Did you

buy the Fotoman camera or is this a free sample? If you are a

spokesman or affiliated with the company, it would put your reviews

into context. Gifts and other motives can soften the reviewer's view

of a product.

In the back of my mind too...

Allow me to answer several questions that have been posed... No, Ross is in no way

affiliated with Fotoman Camera. No, the camera was not a gift. Yes, the camera was used

as barter in order to acquire Ross' very beautiful (and expensive) images. No, the images

were not taken with a Fotoman Camera. No, the images were not represented as having

been taken with a Fotoman Camera... The images were used to demonstrate the beauty of

6x17. The construction of our booth at Photokina simply prevented us from using

horizontal images, of which we have many (all taken with our cameras). Maybe not as

beautiful as Ross', but we would have gladly used our own had the booth construction

allowed. We have found Ross to be very ethical in our dealings with him, and would fully

expect and encourage him to render any opinion of our products without bias. For those

who would rather hear an opinion from an alternative source you can call Jeff at Badger

Graphics, who has received his first shipment. For those wishing to read an independant

review, View Camera magazine will publish a review written by Kerry Thalmann in the Feb/

Mar issue. Roger Hicks is currently shooting in Europe, preparing an article for Shutterbug,

but as yet we do not know when it will be published.

Thanks Paul for clarifying things. I presume the review articles will also be published on your site. I hope that the feedback Ross provides will be of great value for all of us and hopefully convince us all to get one.

I was not suggesting that what Ross did was wrong. His post seemed

sincere. I was simply curious to the relationship. A dealer or client

review can be quite different than one from a completely independant

reviewer. But the quick response from the manufacturer is also

unusual.

 

But since we have you here Paul, maybe you can answer a few

questions. Does the viewfinder use masks like the Horseman finders

for different focal length lenses? Or is there some optical

adjustment internally like Linholf? Are the viewfinders available

separately?

Slightly off-topic, it's nice that China is getting into high quality niche, bang-for-the-buck LF photography equipment similar to what the Japanese started decades ago in 35mm and MF. Definitely a case of toys for big boys. Love it.

 

I have my eyes set on the Shen-Hao 8x10.

I'm very interested in this as well. I'm interested to find out how well the focusing works, for close objects as well as landscapes. Also, how well the camera keeps the film flat. Please post some of your thoughts as soon as possible. I'm considering this as an option to have multiple focal lengths available for most likely the 6x12 model. My Fuji GSW 690 III is great, but a fixed lens is a problem sometimes.

I'll try to keep this as brief as I can... we will indeed publish the reviews on our site. I have

seen Kerry's draft, and wish I could publish it right now. Our viewfinder changes focal

length by means of a variable internal mask, actuated by turning the outer bezel ring.

There are three finders per format; for 6x12 a 47-90, 90-180 and 180-400, for 6x17 a

72-90, 90-180 and 180-400. Focussing is via helical mount, each one individually

calibrated to a specific focal length. Mounting and calibrating the Focus mount assembly is

very simple, and all tools, shims and instructions are included. No need to have SK Grimes

or anyone else do the calibration... Kerry calibrated the two lenses he used for his article in

less than an hour. Film flatness is superb (per Kerry) as the film path is direct (no turns)

and our pressure plate covers the full format. For Andre... we are now finishing our design

for the 810PS model. Very similar to our 45PS (which is in production now-List Price

599.95), we are anticipating the 810PS to debut in Tokyo this March. All aluminum

construction, with Cone/Helical Focusing and a price of under 1500 USD.

<p>Thanks Paul for coming to my defence regarding this post. I

forgot how jaded

some photographers are here at photo.net. I've been spending

most of my time

over on NPN but remembered that there are some 617

shooters that would like

to know more about this system on this site, so I thought I'd

share my good

fortune and observations with them.Thanks to all who had a

kind word, i'm really

excited about what this camera can do and how it will open up

new doors of images

for me.</p>

<p>For a moment please put yourself in my shoes. For 5 years I

have been focusing

my entire career on panoramic photography. With my limited

funds I was able

to buy myself a G617 with a FIXED 105mm lens.Through hard

work and dedication

to my craft I have built up a very strong portfolio, with just one

camera and

one fixed lens. A year ago I finally hit the wall of limitations with

the G617.So

when this trade deal came through I was very excited because I

knew that I could

now capture the images that are in my head on film, images

that the G617 just

couldn't pull off. I went with a 75mm lens first because of the

close DOF it

provides. The only other cameras that could do this was either

the $3500 Canham

set up or a $5600 617 Linhof 72mm set up, way out of reach for

me. So I'm sorry

if my enthusiasm is over the top, but just think what it has been

like to be

shooting one camera with one lens for the last FIVE years and

now you have 20-30

lenses to chose from! Yes I am very stoked.</p>

<p>Brian Kosoff,<br>

Great to hear from you. The mechanics seem to work very well.

Everything looks

to be very tightly CNC'ed. The metal Cone spacers have good

tounge and groove

light locks and fit snug. The back door fits tight but only swings

left 90 degrees.I'm

used to my G617 that swings left 180 degrees. The fotoman

door swing will be

a big change from your GX617. Everything looks to be

machined out of aluminum.

The first reaction I had when I picked it out of the case was that

this thing

is heavy. It's a lot heaver that it looks. You know the feeling

when you look

at a G617 or a GX617 and you think they are heavy, but you pick

it up and its

light. Well, it's the other way around with the Fotoman. I weighed

just the

fotoman camera body with a 10mm cone spacer and the cone

and it came to 3.5LBS.

My G617 with 105mm lens is 5.5 LBS. To be quit frank, this

thing is built like

a tank. I bet a mack truck could hit this camera body and the

only thing you

would notice is the big dent in the mack truck quarter panel. The

film turn

screws have a nice tention on them, not to loose, not to tight. I'm

a BIG hiker,

most of my hikes range from 2-10 miles so the weight of the

fotoman is an issue

in my book. But, I just won't know till I get the camera fully put to

gether

to see what it will weigh in at. I'll let you know when it's all put

together.

I think the 75mm glass is heaver than the 105 too. But then

again, you have

to think about what fotoman is charging for this camera. You are

going to have

trade offs with any price point item. If this camera comes in

around 6LBS with

the 75mm then I'll be a happy hiker/camper. Do you mind

weighing your GX617

body with a 90 or 105 on it? I'd like to know that number.</p>

<p>I got it direct from Fotoman in China. See the first post by

Paul. I'm going

to give the calibration a try myself, but if I can't get it dialed then

I'll

send it off. But it seams pretty straight forward and easy to do

yourself. I

plan on doing a test regarding the viewfinder and the actual film

coverage.

I'll post when I have them.</p>

<p>Matt Brost,<br>

I'll post images and thoughts about the focusing and film

flatness when I get

the lens installed and get some film run through the camera. I

think it's going

to take me some time to get dialed into the 75mm, but when I

do I'll let you

know. It probably won't be on this site, to many jaded people

here. Look for

it on my site. In fact I think I'm pretty much over posting on this

site for

a while.</p>

<p>Jaded People,<br>

I live, breath, eat and sleep panoramic photography and I know

some of you here

do too. So when a new way of capturing pano's comes around I

get very excited

because it opens new doors for me and my creativity. Next time

when a photographer

is excited about a new system that allows them to capture the

world in a new

way please don't rain down on their parade.</p>

<p>Ross Wordhouse - The Panoscape Photographer<br>

<a

href="http://www.rosswordhouse.com">www.rosswordhouse.co

m</a></p>

Ross, I'm sorry you took my post as an attack. That was not my

intention. I was curious about your relationship to Fotoman. The

simple replies that came from you and Paul cleared things up. Thank

you.

 

BTW, you can refer to "Jaded People" by their names. What is "NPN"?

Great, now I have Ellis Vener calling me a paid writer by Fotoman

over in the LF forums. I guess that's what I get for trying to show

off my new camera that not a single photographer has in the

entire USA. Here is my rebutal to her accusation.

 

"Ellis, Please check with me before you acuse me of something.

 

I am not being paid to write about my 617 fotoman. I traded Paul

four of my images for their 617, end of story. I am sharing my

experience with this camera online because there has been so

much mystery about it. I have one so I want to share, call it good

nature, call it good will, call it bragging rights that I am currently

the only one in the states that has one. I don't care but don't call

me a paid plant by fotoman.

 

I sell stock images all the time. They wanted four of the best vert

pano's that a camera could buy and I wanted a 617 that could

house a 75mm. It's just that simple. Good trade for the both of

us. My images take years to capture, I'm sure that in time

Fotoman will have vert pano's that they can draw apon taken with

their system. But a deadline is a deadline so if a NEW camera

company doesn't have good vert pano's then you go with the next

best thing, stock. "

 

So lets end this jaded take on my post and get to the goods, this

new option for 617 shooters.

 

Ross

 

www.rosswordhouse.com

Ross

 

great to hear someone finally has one in their hands, even better a seasoned 617 shooter. I too have a fixed lens Fuji 617 and am interested in a Fotoman 624 specifically for shooting lenses in the 180 - 300mm range. I've emailed Paul my requirements and have quite a bit of time to wait until these cameras become available.

 

Any user info you post will be appreciated, either here or elsewhere?

 

Clayton

Ross, I do have two questions.

 

First, the camera uses a cable release as a shutter button. Is this

cable supplied with the camera or something the photographer comes up

with.

 

Second, what do you think about the viewfinder? Flair, low contrast,

hard to see through? How heavy is it?

Boy, this looks tempting... I could buy one of these and use with my existing APO-Sironar-S 150 for less than a Linhof 180mm!

 

I'm wondering how you calibrate the focusing scale. Infinity is pretty easy obviously, but what about the rest of the scale -- is it printed for a particular focal length?

Will,

The cable release is supplied with the camera. On the handle

part you can screw it into the top and thread it through the handle

so it can be fired from a hand holding position. This is going to

be great for shooting from a plane. I've tried it the other way with

my G617 and it's hard to hold the camera steady in one hand

and fire off the cable with your other. This screw in feature of the

cable will allow me to hold the camera with both hands and fire

of the shutter with a finger. There are slits in the side of the

handle so you can set the camera down and not pinch the cable.

 

The viewfinder is bright and easy to see through but it's kind of

like looking through a loop. You know, your eye has to be at just

the right spot to see everything clear. When looking straight

through the finder the center is sharp but the sides tend to fuzz

out. If you slant your head and eye over and look to the side then

the side that you are looking at becomes sharp. Best thing to

compare it to is a loop on a light table. You have to move your

eye around to see every part sharp. The weight is heavy. It feels

like a heavy high quality pro loop.

 

Jan,

On the focus ring of my 75mm they have markings for 3.3 ft, 4, 5,

7, 10, 15, 30 and infinity. To calibrate it you set the focus ring on

infinity, space the cone and focus mount to the lens FFD, check

your focus with ground glass. If it's sharp then all of your other

focus ring settings will be on.

 

Hope this helps. Now if only my 75mm lens would arrive!

 

rw

 

www.rosswordhouse.com

Ross, I am also waiting on an over-due lens from MPEX. Article in yestersdays LA Times how the carriers have back-logged shipping due to the holidays and a storm in the midwest last week.

Thanks, Ross. I am looking forward to more feedback after you have

had a chance to use the camera for awhile. There are two things that

for me are weaknesses for the Fotoman - no depth of field scale (even

a stick-on scale would be good), and there is no mechanical stop for

film advance. But maybe these are not such big issues under use, but

I'm interested in your impressions.

Will,

It would be nice to get a DOF chart with the camera and lens

combo. But there is a pretty good DOF calculator online though,

here is the link ;

 

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

 

Just select 5x7 as your film format and you are good to go. I'm

going to do this with my 75mm and print it out and put in in my

bag. After two months of using it I'll have it ingrained in my head.

 

Regarding the film advance. Yep that would be a good feature.

The film nobs have good tention but I could see them geting

moved around some during transport. But all you would have to

do is check the small film postion window in the back of the

camera before you shot to make sure it was on the right film

number. On the back of the door is a small window that has a

sliding steel cover. The window is red tinted plastic so it will help

to cut down light. It will show you the number of the film position

on the back of the 120 paper. Just check this to make sure you

are in position before you release the shutter. It's way more work

than the G617, but then again the G617 cant change lenses. The

film position numbers are listed on the back of the door to

remind you where to place the film. But to be honest, I use all

four shots of the 120, one for dead nuts on exposure and the

other three for bracketing. So I burn through one roll per shot.

 

Hope this helps,

 

rw

 

www.rosswordhouse.com

Regarding the automatic film stop... adding an indexed film winding system to our

cameras would have added considerable complexity to the design, and obviously forced us

to raise the price level. In fact there is a distinct benefit to the manual winding system we

employ... we advise winding the film passed the correct frame number slightly (one turn)

and then rewinding the film back to the correct frame number. Then, just prior to

exposing the film, counter rotate both winding knobs to tighten the film. This eliminates

any potential for less than perfect film flatness. Other than in manual 35mm cameras, I

can think of no automated film winding system that allows this proceedure. While neither

of these steps are mandatory, "an ounce of prevention"...

Dear All,

 

See also my note on 'Fotoman Cameras' in a later thread. Sorry I didn't join in earlier but I don't normally check the MF thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)