8mm Film to DVD transfer (Do it yourself)

Instead of dishing out hundreds of dollars to have 8mm film

transferred professionaly, what's the optimal way to do it yourself?

I already have a DVD-burner and firewire and capture cards on my

computer. How can I transfer the 8mm film? Is there a way to go

straight from 8mm film to computer or do you have to go to vhs, and

then from vhs to computer. If anybody knows of a device that

can "scan" 8mm film or a method that can acomplish the same result

I'd be forever grateful. Thanks in advance,

Eugene

I assume you mean you have a 8mm camcorder that you want to transfer to computer? If so this is what I do. I have a ATI video card that has a video in port that I plug in my camcorder to and capture the movie. Depending on the quality you save it as determines the size of the file. There are many video cards that can do this and mine was only around $50.00. I dont have a DVD burner yet so I am still burning my home movies to CD

There are several ways to go about transferring 8mm, super 8mm, 16mm, etc. to digital, and ultimately to DVD if that's your goal. You asked about 8mm, so I'll just answer for 8mm.

 

Elmo used to make an 8mm telecine transfer machine. They show up on ebeigh from time to time. They usually sell for $1500 to $2000. You run the film just like in a normal projector. The machine projects the film onto a ccd cell, and the output is typical VHS quality output. You can feed this just like a live TV broadcast into something like the Phillips DVD burner that has recently come available, but the quality won't be very high (typically around 250 to 300 lines per picture). The Elmo units have a frame per second and shutter blade combination that synchs the film to the TV signal. The closest easy synch for 8mm is to run it at 20 fps with a 3 blade shutter, but I don't know for sure that this is what the Elmo unit does.

 

 

Goko used to make a Telecine Player model TC-20. There are 8mm and Super 8mm models. You can pick these up on ebeigh too. They usually sell for $1000 to $1400. The Goko units are also similar to projectors, but instead of projecting the image onto a ccd cell, they project the image so that it appears to be floating in air inside the machine. You use your own video camera to capture the image by alligning it with a little window on the back of the TC-20. The interesting thing about the Goko units is that they use a 24 facet prism as part of their projection system, and for some reason they will synch with the TV at any speed. The range of speeds on the unit is typically from about 16 fps to about 24 fps. If you use the Goko approach, you can get a 3ccd cell camera, like the Canon GL1, XL-1s, or similar, and you can then get a digital file that you can run into your computer via the fire wire port. Resolution for miniDV is about 500 to 525 lines per picture. It holds up pretty well, even on a 54" TV. The Goko units are still supported in the US, so if repairs are needed, there is a place to send them. If your Goko and camera are properly adjusted and properly lined up, you can get very high quality by this approach.

 

 

Another approach is to use an 8mm projector with an adjustable speed control. If the unit has a 3 blade shutter and you can adjust it to run at 20 fps, you can synch with the TV. Normal 8mm projection speed is 18 fps, so this is only a 10% difference, and it isn't noticable to most viewers if there's no audio to deal with. You project the image onto either a telecine transfer box (mirror and ground glass), or onto a white screen, and you capture the image with your digital camcorder, like with the Goko unit. You typically project the image to a size of maybe 4" or 5" square. With the high quality digital camcorders, if you use the ground glass approach, resolution can be high enough to show the ground glass texture, so some people prefer to forget the telecine transfer box and just project onto a clean white sheet. If you're using the telecine transfer box, your camera will be at an angle of approximately 90% to your projection. If you used the clean white sheet approach, your camera will be located very close to the axis of the projector lens.

 

 

If you are interested in this general area, you can go to Google and do a search using the key word "telecine." There is another method that I have not used that involves frame by frame capture using a specialized set up that is being sold over the internet. I haven't looked at it recently, and I've never tried their gear. They are very negative about the Elmo and Goko methods in their literature - but my experience with the Goko is that the negative hype that this guy publishes is based on the results you get when your Goko lamp and camera are misalligned. The web page where this method is discussed is at http://www.moviestuff.tv/8mm_telecine.html.

 

 

FWIW, I would pass on the Elmo telecine transfer units just because of the modest resolution. The video camera chip in these units is about 15 year old technology. My prefered method is via a 3ccd mini DV camcorder and either the Goko or the variable speed projector. You can get good results with either method. The one thing to watch out for is that most of the folks who are selling projectors on ebeigh seem to be overly optimistic about the functionality of their unit. These old projectors can eat the film and ruin your stuff pretty quickly. It is for this reason that I finally settled on the Goko TC-20 for my own 8mm film to DVD transfers.

If you would like to transer your old V8 or Hi8 tapes in DV formate to computer, the best way is to get a Digital8 camcorder. Sony D8 backward support V8 and Hi8, so you can just simply insert the V8/Hi8 tapes into the D8 camcorder, then transer them to computer in DV format through firewire cable. The price of cheapest Sony D8 is about US$500. If you are interested in buying a analog-digital converter to connect your Hi8 and PC, you can try Sony D8 video walkman for US$600. Of course, you also can buy a univeral analog-digital converter to convert RCA/S-VHS signal from you V8 to DV format like Dazzle's Hollywood DV-Bridge for US$300. However, the video qulity will not be as good as the other two.

Just a quick note that I saw a different piece of equipment that was touted as being better than the Goko. Here is the web address:

http://www.moviestuff.tv/8mm_telecine.html

The equipment to do it was only $700. You need a camcorder to record the video though, but I assume you have one. Not a bad price considering how expensive it is to have a company do it for you. I have not used it but am looking into getting one as a possibility.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1946122152

I'm selling a GOKO TC-20 R8

 

However, a variable speed projector slowed down a little from 16fps to 15 fps does just fine and is quite easy if you have a rear projection screen.<div>[ATTACH=full]876038[/ATTACH]</div>

If we speed up the film how will that effect super 8 sound?

 

how does the Goko unit work with sound? I see a ds-20 on ebay

 

 

thanks

I worked transferring home movies to video for about 18 years, about 8 years in my own business (now out of the business). This is my opinion about these issues.

 

I tried many types of projectors, but ended up only using Goko Tc-301s and Tc-302s. These projectors replaced the Goko Tc-20s and are far, FAR, FAAAR superior in image quality. This is understandable because the Tc-20s were based on a cheap revolving prism just like a low end consumer film viewer. Every time the corner of the prism went by you would get a little "pull" in the picture. This pull as the edge goes by 18 or 20 times a second can be noticed in any film viewer, and in transfers made with the Tc-20s. I suffered with these sh#tty machines for two years in the mid eighties before the TC 300 series replaced them. The image in the Tc20s was also not very bright cause the light had to go through the entire prism (about 3 inches thick).

 

We were getting a lot of complaints with the tc20s and the new units really saved us. No more complaints after the 300 series came on.

 

Goko never really overcame the bad rep for consumerish quality generated by these early machines. I'm amazed that people are actually buying them still. I can't believe the prices people are paying for these things. They're just crappy modified viewers.

 

The Tc301s and Tc302s on the other hand are typical telecine projectors with aerial imaging systems (no screen, just like the Tc20s) and they run at 20 fps (with almost no flicker and much brighter images than the TC-20s). In order to handle super 8 sound at this speed (the chipmunk effect) you need a pitch adjusting device like a digital pitchtraq. Speed issues aside these projectors were for me real workhorses and I was very successful for many years using them. They almost never break. Just don't let the tail end of the film go through the gate at the end of the roll as this sometimes results in bent film claws.

 

Elmo made very good telecine projectors but the transvideo (built in camera) units had horrible quality ccds, even for their day. The units without the built in camera are far superior.

 

Don't waste your money on Goko Tc-20s or Elmo Transvideos. Buy Tc301s (reg 8) or Tc302s (super 8) or regular Elmo telecine projectors (not transvideo).

 

Just my two cents, hope it helps someone.

I recently started to explore this as my mother-in-law has a bunch of old Super 8mm film that she was wanting to transfer onto DVD. I use a decently old Sony Digital Handycam DCR-TRV315 with a DV (firewire) port. There is a setting with this camcorder to where you can record the projected film with little to no flicker. I used the Program button on it and just kept pressing the switch/select button until the flicker went away. I have to looke at the manual for what it is exactly, but looks like an alien space ship icon ... :-P. I use a Canon Cine S-400 projector to a white board about 2 feet away. With just the right settings, the film transfered nice. Decent enough to put on DVD. I'm exploring with lighting, exposure settings and distance before I'm happy. I transfered a few to DVD ... well, VCD format since they are the 3" (3.5 min) films ... so practice will be perfect.

I've been copying reg 8 and super 8 and super 8 sound movies to

VHS for several years using Bell and Howell autoload projectors

using DJL bulbs (150w) , a piece of white stationary taped to a

black music stand, and a Panasonic PV 800 full size VHS camcorder.

 

Today, I cleaned all lenses and was surprised at how dirty they

had become. A friend turned me on to other sources of paper to

project the image on. All white paper is not equal and I had no

idea the copier paper / printing paper had a Whiteness Number -

 

My friend gave me a piece of white printer paper with a 92 number

and when I compared it to what I had been using, I was quite

surprised and pleased and just how much whiter the paper was. He

told me that it comes up to a # 99 number - which I'm going to try

and find. I know that the # 92 paper will give me a much better

picture. It was such a difference, you'd think I'd put a new bulb

in the projector !

 

I plan on obtaining a MiniDV camcorder in the near future for a higher

quality picture. My setup gives me very good pictures from very

good film. I'm surprised at the quality of reg. 8mm films shot outdoors from the 60's. I'm not so happy with the look of Super

8mm sound films shown on my sound projector. I have a Super 8 silent

projector that gets a sharper image than the sound one. I think the

zoom projection lense may be part of the problem. I'm going to look

for a fixed lense for the B&H 626R projector. It has a 1" barrel

facing the apeture with a groove around it.

 

I've copied many 16mm films with the setup and I'm very happy with

the end results - even on VHS ! Good lighting and good photographing

skills make all the difference in home movies. I just did a 94

film job of Super 8mm sound and it was horrible. Every scene was

improperly focused. Every zoom was out of focus, the lighting was

deplorable - only the sound saved the project. But, it earned me

$5 per film just the same.

 

I think that people who order VHS copies of their home movies are

glad to see ANY picture from their old films. Quality seems to take

back seat to the CONTENT of the films. I've yet had a complaint

regarding my film transfers to VHS. And, some have been transferred

from VHS to DVD - the 94 film job was. Someone else did the DVD for

the client.

 

I'm a retired Audio recording engineer having worked in Nashville

area studios since l968, and prior to that worked at KING Records

in Cincinatti, and Criteria Recording in Miami.

 

Email me directly if I can be of help. Leehazen@aol.com

Hendersonville, TN<div>[ATTACH=full]116067[/ATTACH]</div>

Eugene,

A true scanning device will set you back at least $1500 USD.

The Workprinter by Moviestuff.tv is an example. We tend to feel that all the advice about Goko and other less capable things such as Buhl or a Laird multiplexer is a bit mythical since they are as rare as hens teeth. No matter what device you try to obtain or do get you need to be aware of a few things as none of it is straight forward or simple as some make out and the results may satisfy those who think they have a great set up using VHS systmes. VHS systems are fine on most PC's however if using DV you better look at the expense involved for RAID and a decent CPU and high end video card.

If you have a small amount of film take it to a pro for scanning, they know what they are doing and have ALL of the gear and software that works and the know how to give you a great result.

Nothing is simple and requires not only hardware and MONEY, but knowledge skill and ability, why? you have only started to look at the sharp end of the stick, there is so much more to it than instamatic point and shoot including videoscope analysis colour balance since film is so different from video, then there is contrast range, saturation and authoring a DVD seems simple, but with film, frame rate and camera capability is just part of the equation. I could go on but I really think I have said a lot.

If you are looking for the challange and satisfaction of doing it your self be warned the learning curve is steep, some get lucky and obtain acceptable results. it is rewarding and very stimulating challenge.

 

Good luck

 

Jonathon

The usual DIY way (note, the projector is ideally variable speed, adjust the speed knob until flicker is gone). Keep the camera and projector as close to eachother as possible, do your transfers in a room that is dark.<div>[ATTACH=full]149885[/ATTACH]</div>

BTW, Clean your film with something like Film Guard and a soft cloth, also lube the projector with Film Guard, as it is a good lubricant as well. Ebay has Film Guard or similar movie film lubricating/cleaing fluids.

A good film cleaner is Filmrenew. It is sold by Urbanskifilm online at urbanskifilm.com. The best results are from a telecine using an aerial image. Aerial images are sharper with better color than projection on a white card or using those boxes with the mirror and frosted glass screen. A good unit is the Cinemate20 manufactured by Moviestuff. I use this unit in my film transfer business.

Thanks for the tip on Filmrenew. You are right, aerial image is probably better than the paper matte screen, but aerial image units are difficult to find, although possibly you can rig one up using a 5" magnifier and using a video camera that has at least 12X zoom. The white paper, while not ideal, works quite well. And it's just more fun to DIY than to have someone else do it.

Is it possible to loop the signal from the camcorder into a computer thru firewire at the same time that you're recording the film transfer?

We use a piece of equipment from moviestuff. Heare are some sample images of captured 8mm film. We are very pleased with the frame by frame capture method.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

Dave Stoneburner

I made the unfortunate decision to pay over $600 to have my 8mm movies transferred to DVD by Film-To-Video.com / Film-To-DVD.com. Their manager, Carol, demonstrated the most astounding rudeness that I have ever experienced. Indeed, she was so shockingly ill-mannered that the only place I can imagine such behavior going unnoticed is in New York City. Lack of professionalism aside, the quality of the finished product was no better than what I could have obtained locally for a fraction of the price (and without being subjected to anyone?s appalling lack of manners). Buyer beware.

B. J. Lowe, Phoenix

Well it's been four years since I started this popular thread. I went on to start a successful film transfer business based on some of the input I received - so much appreciated to everybody that helped along the way. While I would wish the best of luck to anyone that attempts to take on this project themselves, much like I did, there's several caveats. I've compared my quality over the years to different film transfer techniques, including the old Elmo and Goko machines and the new Workprinter machines with high-definition optics. Everytime we would upgrade the quality would get better and better, and I would start to wonder - how many people out their have VHS, MiniDV, or DVD versions of their 8mm/S8mm/16mm films and are content with their quality. A lot of companies that offer these services (with below par equipment) bias the public into thinking that due to the age of their film, the quality is not good to begin with. That's how I thought until I saw what a good high-definition transfer can offer. The colors are subtle and true, the focus is pixel perfect, and the 1080p resolution makes you feel like you're back in the decade that the film was shot. I'm not saying to go with my company over any other, but I just want people that have their films transferred to know just how beautiful their digital version can be if done properly. So to anybody that has transferred their films or is thinking about transferring their films, be sure to store the originals well, in dry, cold conditions. As technology evolves, you will still have the victor over the question of time and quality: 8mm, super 8mm, and 16mm film.

I read Jose T's comments about a home telecine with the website of www.saveyourmovies.com, but when I went there it would not open. Does someone know what the correct website is? It purports to use a digital video camer and a computer and gives good quality.

John

I googled goko tc-301s and could not find a source to but one. Does anyone know where to get a new or used one? Thanks, Alan

Oh my gosh you guys are complicating this way too much, I did this for my grandmother the other day. I took all of her 8mm tapes, and made them in to dvd's in a 1,2,3. And you dont even need a Computer to do this. Okay, first all you need is a VCR, which probably everyone has in a closet somewhere, a VHS tape from the 99 cent store, A TV, a DVD R/W, a couple of blank DVDs, oh and your old 8mm camcorder. Although it takes a few steps, its super easy to do. *First connect your VCR to your TV, place a blank VHS in to the VCR.

*Take your 8mm tape, place it in your camcorder.

*Take the AV in and out, and connect it to your camcorder and the other end to your VCR, (make sure you have your VCR NOT set on LP, because of picture quality)

*Turn on VCR (Make sure you fastforward a little of the blank tape, just about 3 secs, you dont want any thing to get cut off)

*Turn on your camcorder(Make sure your 8mm tape is completely rewinded)

*Press RECORD On the VCR, Press PLAY on the Camcorder.

*Now go get a bowl of chips and sit with your family to watch the home movies. (Aaaa, memories)

*After youre done watching or done doing something else, Stop the camcorder, and turn it off. Take your, VHS and Rewind it.

*Leave the VHS in the VCR. This time place your blank DVD in the DVD player, and Record, every thing off the VHS. THE END.

***If you also want, you can also, Connect your Camcorder to the

DVD R/W.

Hi, Dude, you misunderstood the topic here, the question was about Transferring 8mm Film to DVD, not the modern 8mm video TAPE, again you could go to: http://canaanmedia.com/16mm-film-transfer-8mm-film-to-DVD.htm to see what a 8mm film should look like.

I just had some early 1960's 8mm film transferred to DVD. I used the YesVideo service at Ritz

camera. While the DVD is very nice, there does not seem to be any way of importing the files

into IMovie or any other Macintosh movie editing program. Any suggestions?

Very dramatic and novel length ad there, Philip.

That is one piece of literary work there. I also noticed how after I posted how to DO IT YOURSELF which is what this thread is about, all of these fly-by night transfer services (no offense intended) started coming out of the woodwork like lawyers chasing an ambulance. See, I can type dramatic pablum too. Fly by night you say? Yeah, check out the post by "jose t" and go to the website. Some sort of website is there, but the transfer biz isn't.

 

First Rule Of Marketing : What you already have is unsatisfactory.

 

Suck on this:

 

Tired of paying to have transfers done? Annoyed by marketers trying to bilk you for something you can do yourself? Insulted by their insinuations that you the customer are too stupid to do it correctly? BOTHERED BY THE THOUGHT OF MAILING YOUR PRECIOUS AND IRREPLACEABLE FILMS THROUGH THE MAIL? Afraid that the fly-by-night company may lose your films if the mail doesn't? Well then DO IT YOURSELF! The info is in cyberspace, so you can look up how to do it, but only between 12 am - 12 pm, every day of the week, every week of the year, every year until your demise. Not only that, but you can do your own transfers MANY different ways, learn about video equipment, optics and when you are done you can feel a sense of accomplishment that you would never get from risking losing them in the mail or getting lost when the fly by night business goes out of business. Cost is up to you, time is whenever you feel like it, and you get total control over the process! You can even use FREE software like VIRTUALDUB to clean up and edit your transfers if you chose to record them via computer.