6x4.5 Choosing a Camera!

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by rohnan_black, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. Hey guys, i'm asking this on behalf on my fiancee.
    She want's a 6x4.5 camera with the following:
    Metered 'slr' type prism viewfinder
    Waist Finder (switchable with the prism)
    Good grip (the one that attaches to the side)
    Film backs (switchable backs, to change from color to B&W, not catriges).
    Around $400-$500.
    Any recommendations? Google comes up with a good number of options, some making the requirements, other's not so much (some are a complete package, with just the lens being changeable).
    If you can recommend something that has a built in grip, that's fine, but the changable waist finder/prism is very high on the list. The film backs, not as much.
    Thank you!
     
  2. Sounds like she looked up the specifications and design of a Mamiya 645 Pro (or 645 Pro TL or the slightly older 645 Super), and then composed the list of requirements to match it! I'm kidding of course, but it does fit the bill perfectly.
    Also the Bronica ETRS or ETRSi would match these specs.
    The main difference between them being that the Mamiyas key you into a huge range of lenses, often with faster apertures, and also adapted lenses from several other medium format cameras; while the Bronicas only work with their own more modest range of leaf-shutter lenses.
    The Contax 645 and Hasselblad H1/H2 "fail" on price, and a non-detachable grip.
    The Pentax 645 series and the older Mamiya M645/M645J/M645 1000s "fail" on non-interchangeable backs, only inserts.
     
  3. Much appreciated Ray Butler ! This gives us something more concrete to look at than names on a list and 10 years old forum posts!
    Thanks!
     
  4. I agree with Ray, a Mamiya M645 Pro appears closest. I seriously doubt you find a full system with all the items you (she) wants for $500. However, for that price you may be able to find a body, one 120 film back, either a metered prism or a waist-level finder, one lens (probably an 80mm f/2.8, although the 55mm f/2.8, 150mm f/3.5, and 210mm f/4 are about equally cheap and available), and a basic grip. I would start by looking at K.E.H.
    Note that the M645 Super is considerably cheaper than the M645 Pro, and also has removable backs, but at least some of them are subject to reports of major reliability problems. Also, the M645 Pro TL is a little newer and nicer, but costs a bit more.
    The Bronica ETRSi is indeed your other option. It is not nearly as common as the Mamiya. but not rare. Whereas most (not all!) of the Mamiya lenses use the body's focal-plane shutter, and therefore can only flash sync up to 1/60 s, but can shoot non-flash pictures up to 1/1000 s; all of the Bronica lenses have leaf-shutters, which lets them flash-sync at any shutter speed, but limits the highest non-flash shutter speed. Really, I think this is a non-issue unless she wants to shoot a lot of daytime, outdoor pictures will fill-flash.
     
  5. I think for a 645 my choice would be a Hasselblad.
     
  6. I think for a 645 my choice would be a Hasselblad.​
    Which type? H series (natively 645) or V series (natively 6x6 but 645 backs available...or manual cropping)?
    Excellent cameras, but I think that both of these are above the stated budget.
     
  7. The OP mentions film, and mentions the convenience of using several magazines. So my choice would be a "V" model, a spare third party grip, a metered prism and the usual waist level one, and a 645 back (in order to get more shot per roll).
    The possibilities are open to use a 6x6 film back and to buy the original motorized grip.
    Anyway, I`m not a Hasselblad user (I have Mamiyas), but if I were buying another medium format camera (not likely), I think it would be my choice.
     
  8. I have owned both a Hassy H and V for a few years. The H was for studio work with a digital back, while the V was for personal use.
    I did not like using the H, it's a nice/good camera, but it felt ackward to use.
    What about the Bronica SQ series for 6x6? I stumble upon those, and i am a big fan of 6x6.
     
  9. "She want's a 6x4.5 camera".

    If Bronica, the ETRSi is a perfectly fine choice. No need to step up to an SQ-A.
    I have no personal experience with the Mamiya 645 Pro, but do have one of the older M645 models, an given a choice between one of those and the Bronica, i'd go with the Bronica ETRSi.
    The M645 is rather clunky, not very 'ergonomic'. Lenses are o.k. Not great (not on par with much of what Mamiya offered for their other MF cameras), but not bad at all.
     
  10. I have a Bronica ETR and three ETRS cameras. I do not use any of them with a metered finder but metered finders are available. The most advanced metered finder was made for the ETRSi and costs more. In addition to the Bronicas I now have a Mamiya M645 1000S and a Mamiya M645J. These Mamiyas do not have removable backs like the later Mamiya models and the Bronica ETR series cameras but they do offer the higher 1/1000 top shutter speed. I have the 70/2.8 Mamiya leaf shutter lens and consider it a good semi-wide standard lens. Where shooting comfort is concerned the Bronica Speed Grip for the ETR series cameras makes using the camera a lot easier. Adding a power winder to either the Bronica or the Mamiya solves this problem while adding cost and weight. I use the Mamiyas with the PD-S meter prism finder and that works well. What about the later Mamiyas with interchangeable backs? They cost more and do not have the best reputation for reliability. If you consider the non-motorized choices Mamiya offers for the older 645 cameras, I don't think they are very conmfortable for hand held use. I might have added a motorized winder for my ETR cameras but I recently got a Bronica SQ-AM in good condition for $27. My recommendation would be an ETRS with a Speed Grip, prism finder, 120 back and 75/2.8 to start out. The Bronica 50 and 150 lenses are very reasonable in price and can be added later.
     
  11. The choice between the Mamiya 645 and Bronica ETR series comes down to what your friend shoots. In the past, the leaf-shutter lenses used by the Bronica were considered essential for wedding and portrait use because they don't have a limit on sync speed and allow fill flash to be used more easily outdoors in bright sun. Mamiya even built a couple of leaf shutter lenses to go with its cameras just for that purpose. But the leaf shutters and built into each lens, which means the lenses are more expensive and maybe a somewhat smaller collection. If you're not shooting fill-flash outside, then it's all a non-issue and either brand will do just fine.
    One piece of advice -- Photographers are very picky about their gear. You are really better to sit down with your friend and let her choose what she wants and then pay for it than to buy it yourself. This is even more true when you're talking about used, out-of-production equipment that you might have to piece together from a couple of sources.
     
  12. Ronan,
    If a lens is included in your $400-$500, I do not think there is a chance to find something in good working condition. Both the 645 Pro TL and Bronica's suggested are good recommendations, however they are both complex cameras and without some warranty from the seller or a recent cla they won't make your fiancee happy.
    If price was not limited to $500, my own recommendation would be an Hasselblad 500C/M with a 645 back. Much more reliable, less costly and easier to fix/maintain, better lenses, better accessories, not as heavy. They are more expensive for good reasons.
     
  13. " I now have a Mamiya M645 1000S and a Mamiya M645J. These Mamiyas [...] do offer the higher 1/1000 top shutter speed"

    So there is no mistake: of the older M645 models (M645, M645J and M645 1000s), only (!) the 1000s does.
     
  14. "If a lens is included in your $400-$500, I do not think there is a chance to find something in good working condition. Both the 645 Pro TL and Bronica's suggested are good recommendations, however they are both complex cameras and without some warranty from the seller or a recent cla they won't make your fiancee happy."
    Think you need to review "Completed Auctions" on eBay for "Mamiya 645 Pro kit." Most sold for under $500. They're not exactly appreciating in value these days.
    While the Bronica ETRS(i) is relatively complex, the Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/ProTL is less so: simple electronic focal plane shutter, sturdy film advance, durable lenses.
    The OP should realize that a WLF on a 645 isn't really workable for anything but landscape-oriented shots.
     
  15. @Paul Loveteck Lots of mamiya and bronika selling for under $500 on eBay and even locally (and where i live, stuff is usually 20-30% more expensive than the average prices on eBay). I'm talking about metered prism + lens + body + grip + 1 or 2 backs.
    @C Watson The OP realizes that and the WLF is exactly for that, landscaping shots :) Or else it's too awkward (that's what my old 500CM taught me and my fiancee).
    We are leaning toward a Bronika ETRS or ETRSI. Any differences? Some people say the ETRS is better built while other say the ETRSI is... hmnn?

    I was also made aware there's a Bronika that shoots 6x6 AND 6x7, anyone know the model?

    Thank you all!
     
  16. I was also made aware there's a Bronika that shoots 6x6 AND 6x7, anyone know the model?
    If there is a Bronica that shoots both 6x6 and 6x7, it almost has to be the GS-1. Of the more modern Bronicas, the SQ series (SQ, SQ-A, SQ-AM, SQ-Ai, SQ-B) is 6x6 and the GS series (GS-1, others?) is 6x7. Presumably you could have a 6x6 back for a GS-1. Just be warned that not all of the Bronica models take things like auto-exposure prisms. Same with the Bronica ETR series (645).
    Note also that before the SQ series, Bronica made older cameras like IIRC the S2. Also, there are IIRC some Bronica E-series 645s (maybe EC-something?) that do not have removable film backs, and are in that respect like the older Mamiyas like the M645 1000s.
     
  17. Thanks for the info! It really helps narrowing down a camera (and learning about other models, etc).
     
  18. C Watson, Ronan,
    I know they are 645 Pro TL and Bronica's for less than $500 on eBay. I said "... in good working condition" and if you take my full sentence in consideration, believe me the numbers are different. I also know (by experience!) that there is a LOT of garbage on eBay. I could not find a SINGLE 645 Pro TL kit under $500 with any kind of warranty or cla.

    If you do not care about the working condition of a camera (shutter speeds, light leaks, meter accuracy, body to back alignment . . .) you might as well use a $100 Canon point and shoot: you will most probably get better results than with a $500 Bronica on eBay.
    Ronan, before deciding, I would recommend that you check how much is a cla for a Bronica kit (body, lens, back, meter). Be prepared to add this amount to your $500 if you buy on eBay with no warranty unless you want a camera mostly to look good on a shelf.
     
  19. C Watson, Ronan,
    I know they are 645 Pro TL and Bronica's for less than $500 on eBay. I said "... in good working condition" and if you take my full sentence in consideration, believe me the numbers are different. I also know (by experience!) that there is a LOT of garbage on eBay. I could not find a SINGLE 645 Pro TL kit under $500 with any kind of warranty or cla.

    If you do not care about the working condition of a camera (shutter speeds, light leaks, meter accuracy, body to back alignment . . .) you might as well use a $100 Canon point and shoot: you will most probably get better results than with a $500 Bronica on eBay.
    Ronan, before deciding, I would recommend that you check how much is a cla for a Bronica kit (body, lens, back, meter). Be prepared to add this amount to your $500 if you buy on eBay with no warranty unless you want a camera mostly to look good on a shelf.


    Maybe, Paul. Truisms aside, "pay more, get more" isn't exactly axiomatic in an auction setting--something your eBay experience probably taught you. Warranty? How long? Backed by who? CLAs can be thorough or superficial, the photo gear equivalent of a "wall job" in the auto repair biz. Who exactly do you recommend for Mamiya or Bronica service? The recently completed eBay Mamiya 645 Pro auctions didn't appear to be full of junk cameras. Of the two cameras, there's less to malfunction with the Mamiya. I have two--both bought inexpensively off eBay--that I've shot for the last 6 years with no issues. Same goes for backs, inserts, lenses and finders. Buy from KEH if you want a warranty.
     
  20. We are leaning toward a Bronika ETRS or ETRSI. Any differences? Some people say the ETRS is better built while other say the ETRSI is... hmnn?​
    Take a look at http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Bronica_ETR which includes descriptions of all the ETR* models.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  21. @Paul Loveteck Buy smartly on eBay and it's fine. So don't purchase any 'sold as is' and pay with Paypal to be protected. If the shipper sends crap, you recuperate your money.
    @Henry Posner Thanks!
     
  22. I should have been more clear that of the older (no removable back) Mamiya 645s, only the 1000S has the 1/1000 top shutter speed. Leaf shutter SLRs had a bad name when 35mm Kowa SLRs were being made. Even fixed lens leaf shutter SLRs were not always reliable and were difficult to repair. When Hasselblad switched from focal plane shutters to leaf shutters the reputation improved. The Bronica ETR/SQ/GS series cameras all have electronically governed in-lens leaf shutters have been reasonably reliable. I have heard that the electronics in the ETRSi and SQ-Ai models can cause problems so I have avoided these. You should not expect the winding mechanism from a Bronica or Mamiya 645 camera to be as sturdy as one in a Hasselblad so condition, as far as that can be known, is key. When I shot my first roll with the M645J I put black electrician's tape around the back because the seals did not look good. I was really checking the shutter speeds and the spacing. I took the camera in for an overhaul. The cost for that was $130. The camera looks and works like new now. I paid less than $75 for the camera with a 120 insert so I can't really complain. One thing I have learned recently is that the Mamiya prism finders for the early M645 cameras (no interchangeable backs) have not aged as well as the Bronica prism finders for the ETR series cameras. Many of the Mamiya prism finders show either a horizontal black line or a wider dark strip. This is caused by the breakdown of the adhesive/foam material used in assembling the prism components. This can be repaired but can be costly. I have eight or nine Bronica prism finders and none of them has this problem.
     
  23. Ronan,
    You never get back all your money with eBay: you have to ship back your item to the seller and that part IS NOT refunded. You must use an expensive shipping with proof of delivery to be protected.
    In addition, because of the eBay process, between the time you paid and the time you get your money back it's 3 to 4 weeks. So, if time has any value for you you also loose this.
    My recommendations to buy on eBay:
    - Never buy from a guy with "no return" policy
    - Ask for some warranty, like 30 days. This will tell you that the seller knows what he is selling and has some confidence in it
    - Ask when the last cla was done
    - Never buy if the seller does not answer your messages
    - Carefully look at the feedback of the seller
     
  24. I recently bought an eBay item which turnd out to be the wrong one. The seller agreed to refund everything including the return postage. There are certain dealers like KEH which understand photo equipment, rate it conservatively and provide good service. I try to buy from one of these sellers when I can.
     
  25. I have both an ETRS and ETRSi. (They are my main portrait kit.)
    Both are excellent. When you see them side by side, the ETRS feels just a tiny bit heavier/sturdier/ more metallic. But it is older.... the ETRSi has a bit more of a plastic touch to the finish, but being newer it feels as nice or nicer, and just as solid. If the cameras aren't literally side-by-side you would be hard pressed to describe any difference between them at all.
    I think your friend will be very happy with Bronica - I have been very pleased with the results from the lenses, especially the 75mm 2.8 and the 150mm 3.5. Being able to flash synch at all speeds on all lenses is very nice for portrait work too.
     
  26. @Paul Loveteck Thank you, i have over 150 transactions on eBay. I have been a member for a long (LONG) time. I personally never sell on it, it's horrible for sellers. For buyers, as long as you are smart, there's good deals to be made :)
    Thanks to everyone for the answers, we will probably go with a ETRSI.
     
  27. Hope I am not too late but would like to share my experiences with the 645 format. I owned a Mamiya 645e and a Fuji 645s that I have subsequently sold. Yes, the 645 format is larger than 35mm but not appreciably so, certainly not enough to display what 6 cm high film is capable of. The lens on the Fuji was too wide for my taste and was not interchangeable. The 645e was light enough to handhold and easy to focus, but the vibrations from the mirror was too much for me. Every time I fired the shutter, my fillings almost rattled. I substituted these cameras with a Mamiya RB67 to add to a Mamiya Universal 6x9. The 6x7 format really shows just how much resolution you can get out of this format and I find that the 6x9 (which is almost half of a 4x5 sheet), using PanF film is just astounding. Yes, the RB67 is heavy, but I was shocked at how well damped the mirror vibrations are, probably a combination of the mass of the camera and mechanical damping of the mirror assembly. I have handheld shots at 1/30 with no blurring. Since I also use large format, I am at home with the 6x7 as is almost the same proportion as the 4x5 at about 1/4 the area of a sheet and the normal, short tele, and tele lenses have very close to the same field of view as the corresponding lenses in large format. When I use the 6x7, the process feels like using a little view camera without the hassles of a darkcloth. For shots wider than normal I use the Mamiya 6x9. This combination works well for me. I would urge to give serious consideration to the 6x7 format.
     
  28. In addition to my 645 cameras I have Bronica SQ and GS-1 cameras. As a studio camera and for close work the RB/RZ cameras are more suitable than the GS-1. For hand held shooting I find the GS-1 much more comfortable. I recently got my third GS-1 body for all of $17. All three have plain prism finders and I am looking to add a second Speed Grip. Lenses for 6X7 cameras are larger, slower, heavier and more expensive. Where the GS-1 lenses are concerned they are also harder to find. When deciding on a format it's important to consider what size prints you are looking to make. Even in an 8X10 or 11X14 you will get finer grain with the 645 format than with 35mm. If that improvement is enough for you then 645 is fine. Square formats seem less popular and require cropping to get the more popular rectangular print sizes. When you use fine grain film in a 6X7 camera you are looking to come closer to the quality of 4X5, up to a certain print size. When I use Ektar 100 in the GS-1 I know I will be able to make a very large print with little grain. I have mixed feelings about the 6X9 format. It doesn't help me if I am aiming for the proportions of an 8X10 or 11X14. I wind up cropping down to the 6X7 format for that. If I suddenly found a Bogen 69 Special enlarger in good condition I would consider getting a 6X9 format camera. My largest enlarger goes only to 6X7.
     
  29. @Luis Rives I have been thinking about 6x7 a LOT because if i'm going to take the time to develop my 120 (i have a dark room for my 135) i want something that's worth the time and money. So i looked at 6x7 but the weight + price put me off.
    This won't be used indoor/studio but on the go... which is why i figured 645 would be much better.
    The RZ67 is simply too expensive here, and the RB67 doesn't have a built in meter. And the weight... ouch.
    But yeah if anyone knows of a 6x7 that meet my requirements then by all mean, share :)
     
  30. [T]he 645 format is larger than 35mm but not appreciably so ....
    IMO, that's nonsense--and I say that having owned and used 110 (long ago!), 35mm, 4x4, 645, 6x6, and 4x5. 645 is 2.7x the area of 35mm, and if you crop to US-standard sizes for larger prints (like 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, 20x24, etc., i.e., about a 4:5 aspect ratio), then the effective film-size ratio (based on the part of the frame actually used) is 3.0x. The next step up, 6x6, is only effectively less than 1.2x the area of 645, and 6x7 is effectively 1.8x the area of 645. So clearly 35mm to 645 is a much bigger proportional step than is 645 to 6x6 or 6x7. Also, as the film sizes get bigger and bigger, you're actually into diminishing returns, the the real gains less than those suggested by the increase in film area. Just as examples of why, as the lenses have to cover larger and larger frames, their absolute performance (lp/mm or whatever standard you want to use) on the whole falls, and our eyes get less and less able to pick out the higher and higher resolution at anything approaching normal viewing distances.
    IMOPO, if you want to hand-hold much, a 645 is a very good compromise between film area and hand-holdability. I find a Mamiya M645 1000s with a left-hand grip and a prism plenty convenient enough to hold and use (although more modern designs like the Contax 645 are nicer). On the other hand, if hand-holding (or hiking with the camera) will rarely if ever be an issue, then I'd suggest skipping everything discussed here and going to a Mamiya RB-67 Pro S (or Pro SD) if you don't care about movements, or a 4x5 if you do. From the OP's comments, it sounds to me like a 645 is the way to go.
     
  31. To compare 'quality', we shouldn't look at the ratio of areas of different formats. Resolution is given in image elements per length, and that's the better thing to look at: the linear magnification.<br>Over the long side, 6x4.5 is 1.55x 35 mm format, meaning that with lenses on both formats that produce images with the same resolution (and no: 35 mm lenses are not (!) better than larger format lenses) and same angle of view, you get 1.55x more detail in the 6x4.5 image. Well worth it.<br>6x6 obviously is the same over the long side. 6x7 is 2x '35 mm' (and 1.3x 6x4.5). 6x9 is 2.5x '35 mm' (and 1.6x 6x4.5).
     
  32. Get a good ETRSi - preferably with PE series lenses. You won't regret it.
     
  33. If you prefer Q.G.'s approach to the comparison among film formats, and base a comparison on the effective film size for prints with the common (in the US, for larger prints) 4:5 aspect ratio, then 645 gives you 1.7x the linear dimensions of 35mm, 6x6 gives you 1.1x the linear dimensions of 645, and 6x7 gives you 1.3x the linear dimensions of 645. Either way, 35mm to 645 is a much bigger step up than is either 645 to 6x6 or 645 to 6x7.
     
  34. Personally I prefer the Bronica ETRSi System, I find for the theme I photograph Landscapes, this system has contributed to achieve some excellent results. I have photographed with the Mamiya Pro TL System previously, the AE Metering was the only disappointing experience in my opinion, other than that it was a great system. I find the Bronica AE III Finder much more accurate for Landscapes. Then again this review or comment is covering only one Photographic Theme.
    Link here for the some results with the Bronica ETRSi (& ETRS Camera) System:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/panoramicpei/
     
  35. Having been a Canon SLR user for many years, I have just purchased a Mamiya 645 (the old model without interchangable back) with waist finder for £250, and am having great fun using it. I don't find it clunky or unergonomical at all, and in fact find it a great relief after the scrunched-up feel of an eye-level slr. All the extras on the bronica would, I think, mess with the functional simplicity of these cameras.
    On a side issue, I am thinking about resolving the cartridge problem by making a double zipped dark bag big enough for the camera and a light-proof box to hold the spare (loaded) cartridge. With a pair of double elasticated wrist-cuffs included, it ought to be possible to change film by feel, aka loading film with a changing bag like this one
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Top-Brand-Changing-Bag-Camera/dp/B00023JEB6/ref=pd_bxgy_ph_text_y
    but bigger. What do you guys think? Will it work, and if not, why not?
     
  36. What i think, Paul, is that those "extras" you think would get in the way, you think would "mess up the functional simplicity", would make such a Heath Robinson solution unnecessary. ;-)<br><br>Commercially available changing bags will be big enough. Finding or making a light tight storage box is possible too. But if you change cartridge mid roll, the camera will lose frame count. For that alone i would say that it will not work.
     
  37. Paul,
    I have no doubt that you would have fun with your contraption's and your antique 645 Mamiya. Do you know that you could also drive a Ford T or a Citroen Trefle and have a lot of fun? I know, because I owned both and drove both. However, this was not to go from one place to another one.
    The question is what is this forum about: having fun or photography?
    Hasselblad had interchangeable magazines more than 50 years ago and was one of the most successful cameras because they focused on good photography. The fun came from the good design of the system but was not the goal!
    Having a good camera is not the opposite of having fun: you can have them both.
    If you only want fun with a MF camera, buy a Holga or a Lomo. I guarantee that they will give you more fun than any Mamiya for a better price!
     
  38. 250£ or almost $400. US for a completely outdated Mamiya 645 ???
    I really wouldn't have the nerve to sell you that camera for that price.....
    no matter how badly I needed the money.
    I recently purchased a (all current) Mamiya RB SD Body with 120/220- 6x8 Motorized Back & RB 50mm C Lens for $450. or 283£.
    Hopefully you will have fun with it for many years to come.
     
  39. 250£ or almost $400. US for a completely outdated Mamiya 645 ???​
    If it came with the 80mm f1.9 lens and its condition was excellent, that wouldn't be too far off the mark. With the regular 80mm f2.8 lens though, one would expect to pay a lot less.
     
  40. Still not the best investment......
    hopefully he could keep using that lens for many years to come, considering it's price or value compared to the camera.
    Personally, I would pick the option for variety with much older equipment, pay less for the 80mm F2.8 version & invest the difference in price towards another lens for the outfit, a WA or Telephoto lens.
     
  41. A good price is what someone is happy to pay for something. It's not necessarily as much as someone else would want to pay for it. But then still a good price.<br><br>An investment is something you expect a return on. That could be money. Or that could be the benefits of having the thing that investment bought.<br>The first is nice for traders, people who are only interested in buying something to sell it on again. A good investment then means a profit. More money.<br>The second is hard to put a value expressed in nickles and dimes on. But it could be the best investment, even though to get it, you paid more than most people might have.<br><br>In short: as long as Pul enjoys the camera, what matters how much he spent on it?
     
  42. Try Fujica GA645 (lens 4.0/60mm, Planar type, Super EBC), GA645W (4.0/45mm. Biogon type, Super EBC), AF cameras. They are available on ebay in ex++, LN condition for 350-500. I am happy with them. All my huge staff of 'blads,'flexes, RB, GW. GL, and others have a long rest.
     
  43. "The second is hard to put a value expressed in nickles and dimes on. But it could be the best investment, even though to get it, you paid more than most people might have."
    Think you need to book an appointment with an accountant.
     
  44. You're only thinking in terms of nickles and dimes, C.
     
  45. Wow! Didn't expect this much arguing over a second-hand Mamiya. Anyway, when I said I was having fun, I meant just that. If your not having fun at anything, your doing it wrong. I didn't buy it just to "have fun with", though. I intend to take my photography to a new level (hopefully). I initially wanted a Bronica, but the only one I found for sale in London was, quite frankly, an overpriced piece of crap, and I'm not happy about buying that sort of stuff on e-bay (I know...there are other sites, but I wanted to actually look at, hold, and get the feel of any camera I would be using). I probably could have got the same thing slightly cheaper, but with how many hidden gremlins? As the old saying goes "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch!"
    It came with a six month warranty, and the shop owner who sold it to me (www.cameracity.co.uk) was very helpful. He took the trouble to show me over how it works, and give me a few pointers about film and other gear, and you can't nickle and dime that sort of stuff imho. He also threw in a roll of Ilford to get me started.
    It is in very good nick for it's age, and apart from a lot of dust in the back, which I will get blown out before I shoot my next roll of film, works perfectly. For it's lack of hassle and hidden horrors, I consider it a bargain!
    I have already been appraised of the film counter problem by the guys who process my film, so I will just be shooting a roll at a time, and forgoing the convenience of the interchangable back, at least untill I can get a decent Bronnie or can afford a 'blad (when I will probably sell the Mamiya and get some of my money back).
     

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